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IF Your baptist church changed from ceasing to still for today Gifts Wld You depart?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Old Union Brother
New Member
Then I believe they would be denying the scripture:
(1Co 12:28) And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
(1Co 12:29) Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
(1Co 12:30) Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
(1Co 12:31) But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
Therefore they would have to go or I would.
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I have learned from bitter experience that it is all but impossible for Cessationists and charismatics to live together in the same church.
Therefore, if charismatic practices came into my church, I would, very reluctantly, head for the hills.
Steve
Therefore, if charismatic practices came into my church, I would, very reluctantly, head for the hills.
Steve
I would most Likely stay as long as they followed the guidelines for use of such gifts that Paul outlined in 1st Corinthians
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Osage Bluestem
Member
I would go. That's not what I believe. It invites pentacostalism.
If the position went from 'spiritual gifts have ceased' to 'we are open to the idea of spiritual gifts' (as I understand the question), that would not affect me at all, as that is close to my own position. I only see abilities, of which there is no evidence of spiritual endowment, and no miraculous gifts at all... but I refuse to be closed to the idea. I have concluded that these "tests" to determine 'your' spiritual gift(s) are just nonsense; they 'tell' you what you want to believe about yourself.
The church where I serve holds a view of the miraculous gifts that sees them as still operational in the world today. We are cautious about how they are expressed.
I don't buy the argument that the gifts have ceased.
I don't buy the argument that the gifts have ceased.
AMEN!!!
I firmly believe it is a lack of faith and or a lack of discerning that we don't see these gifts prevalent today.
Granted a lot of "healing" today is due to medicine that was/is not available to much of the world, but He can still heal miraculously through flawed human just as He did centuries ago. I believe He does so, but it is masked by "MEDICAL SCIENCE", so it is not readily recognizable as "DIVINE" healing
IMHO, the 2 biggest reasons we do not see these type gifts today (rarely anyway) is: 1) lack of faith and 2) too much reliance on external (read "science") factors for relief - IOW, we aren't as dependent on Him for our -- whatever -- as we should be.
Now before you go my brother(LOL) I believe in the continuance of gifts. Now I would like to examine how you view the whole of the Scriptures. It is the business of all of us as Christians to understand the whole of the Bible & unless we are making an effort to do so we are not truly understanding them. I would not want you as a brother squelching the Spirit (as you have just done) & then go along in your in a self satisfied position you currently hold.
Nor is it my wish for any of us to gravitate toward Pentecostalism which I disagree with most strenuously but to understand the whole issue of whether gifts are still operative. Therefore I wish to humbly suggest that anyone who quotes 3 lines of scripture without looking at the full of its content is in error.
So lets cut to the chase since my time is short tonight. It is our duty to expound on 1 Corinthians 12-14. There is much in there I can also point out that needs to that could support it. But I dont have the time. I hope you would just keep your mind open at this juncture.
Blessings
Old Union Brother
New Member
I agree with you. You will get no argument out of me over this issue. I thoroughly believe that we should not "cherry pick" the scriptures to make a point. These were the first scriptures that came to mind when I read this post. We should always take the whole book. I certainly do not want to take short cuts with the scripture. I do not want to be guilty of adding to or taking away form the book.
Peace and prayers
Jeff
Tom Butler
New Member
I am super-sensitive to anything that might create division in my congregation. If my pastor expressed an openness as in the OP, I would wait to see how it played out in the life of the church.
I can't see how it would result in anything but a divided congregation. The minute that division manifests itself, I'm outa there.
I can't see how it would result in anything but a divided congregation. The minute that division manifests itself, I'm outa there.
God Bless you Jeff.....personally you are one man that Id consider using as a mentor if I was ever able to get a church going up here in the Christian desert.
Thank you & have a great w/e
Steve
Depends on if they started practicing them and how they practiced them. But yes, I would probably leave.
Tom...you should be super sensitive. But like anything else, I would sincerely hope that the person introducing anything controversial into the church would explain it & justify it through Scripture vs ramming it down someones throat. Like anything else Tom, we as Christians are all growing through the instruction of the HS & through his Scripture. Now were you always a Calvinist & just how does a blended theology church affect your present situation? Right.
Have a good w/e.
Thats where you need to understand....Gifts are NOT PRACTICED. They are gifts of the HS & as gifts they can be freely given to whom ever He chooses & just as quickly taken away. Nope brother ....that would just be that phone baloney crud that the others (without naming names) try to peddle. If I saw that, I wouldn't walk....I'd run!
I am not convinced of that. I do not believe they are necessary and people would become more dependent on them than the word of God. Charasmatics are a prime example. But in the end only God knows why.
I pretty much agree with you which is why I framed it as an if-then statement. IF they started practicing them, THEN I would leave.
However, the OP question was: If your pastor said he was "open to the idea that [the gifts] might still be in operation....would you leave?" Well, no, I wouldn't leave if the pastor said he might be open to the idea that the gifts were valid today. I'd have to wait and see where that openness led to.
Think that there are 3 primary reason why:
First, when the Lord Jesus was here on earth, and His Apostles immediatly afterwards, those Gifts were used to fulfill OT prophecies concerning signs/tongues unto gentiles, also, were used to confirm Jesus as Being Messiah, Apostles as sent by God
Second when canon officially closed, offices Apostles/Prophets already had been closed, so no more functioning as 'reveltion" from god
Third, was that the Gifts of/From the Spirit DO need to be done to Biblical order/principles, and has to be discerned wether "real or counterfeit"and MUCH of that today is sorely lacking in Church
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