IF Your Baptist Group Approved Alternate Lifestyles, Would You Depart?

[Steadfast Fred]

By this statement you are saying that a believer who cannot escape the sin of homosexual behavior is doomed.

Actually, he has a way of escape. (see 1 Corinthians 10:13)

You can't know that, and have no right to make such a pronouncement.

Actually, I do know that and by the authority of God's Word I can make that pronouncement.

God does not say it in His word. God calls the SIN an abomination, not the sinner.

You may want to go back and read His Word a little more. He says it right here:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The abominable are those who work abominations. The sin of homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. Those who commit those vile acts are abominable. And by the authority of God's Holy Word, I can say they will have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone.

No sin is sufficient to separate a believer from relationship, though it does fracture fellowship. Since you can't see into his/her heart, you are unqualified to say anyone in such sin, no matter what it is, is not a believer, and certainly his/her sin does not negate his/her faith, anymore than the other types of sin I listed in the earlier post separate those who practice them from their faith. More importantly, no sin separates anyone from God, if they have truly claimed Him as their Savior and Lord. To say otherwise contradicts the word of God.

Since the Word of God says they who commit homosexual acts are abominable, and since He says the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire, their belief will do them no good whatsoever if they die in their abomination.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Actually, I do know that and by the authority of God's Word I can make that pronouncement.

No you can't, and to claim it is bordering on arrogance.

Acts 15NASB
8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; [Emphasis added]​

Find me a verse that says you or anyone else "knows the heart," and I'll apologize. You will not find one.

You may want to go back and read His Word a little more. He says it right here:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The abominable are those who work abominations. The sin of homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. Those who commit those vile acts are abominable. And by the authority of God's Holy Word, I can say they will have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Who is John talking about in Revelation 21:8, Fred? Believers? Of course not! And until this point, which is future and is the final judgment for the unbelievers who have lived in the world, none of them are called abominable. It is by their judgment they are pronounced as such. The verse doesn't support your argument. Certainly you can say they will "have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone" when that is where GOD pronounces judgment on them. But not before.

Since the Word of God says they who commit homosexual acts are abominable, and since He says the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire, their belief will do them no good whatsoever if they die in their abomination.

The word "homosexual" is not in Revelation 21:8, though it certainly qualifies as one of the sins the unbeliever will be punished for. But you can't find another verse that specifically calls the sinner an "abomination" or "abominable. In fact, the list of the use of the word (in English) is: Leviticus 18:30, "abominable customs"; Deuteronomy 12:31, "abominable act"; 2 Chronicles 15:8, "abominable idols"; Psalm 14:1, "abominable deeds"; Psalm 53:1, "abominable injustice"; Proverbs 20:10, differing weights and measures are "abominable to the Lord"; Proverbs 29:21, and unjust man is "abominable to the righteous" and an upright man is "abominable to the wicked"; Jeremiah 44:4, "abominable thing"; Ezekiel 16:25, "made your beauty abominable"; 1 Peter 4:3, "abominable idolatries. Then comes your verse posted above, which is the first occurrence of calling the sinner "abominable" and then only at his/her judgment. Your verse doesn't doesn't apply yet. It is future. You have stepped beyond our abilities as humans in making a sweeping judgment we are barred from making. Done here, thanks. And God bless you.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Actually, I do know that and by the authority of God's Word I can make that pronouncement.

No you can't, and to claim it is bordering on arrogance.

Acts 15NASB
8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; [Emphasis added]​

Find me a verse that says you or anyone else "knows the heart," and I'll apologize. You will not find one.

You may want to go back and read His Word a little more. He says it right here:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The abominable are those who work abominations. The sin of homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. Those who commit those vile acts are abominable. And by the authority of God's Holy Word, I can say they will have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone.

Who is John talking about in Revelation 21:8, Fred? Believers? Of course not! And until this point, which is future and is the final judgment for the unbelievers who have lived in the world, none of them are called abominable. It is by their judgment they are pronounced as such. The verse doesn't support your argument. Certainly you can say they will "have their part in the lake of fire and brimstone" when that is where GOD pronounces judgment on them. But not before.

Since the Word of God says they who commit homosexual acts are abominable, and since He says the abominable will have their part in the lake of fire, their belief will do them no good whatsoever if they die in their abomination.

The word "homosexual" is not in Revelation 21:8, though it certainly qualifies as one of the sins the unbeliever will be punished for. But you can't find another verse that specifically calls the sinner an "abomination" and this one doesn't apply yet. It is future. You have stepped beyond our abilities as humans in making a sweeping judgment we are barred from making. Done here, thanks. And God bless you.

 

[Yeshua1]

In accordance with God's word, you tell a lie and you've broken the same law as the homosexual offender.

Do you consider yourself a Christian because we all know that you have told a lie?

can a person really have the HS indwelling tham, and still practive active lifestyle that the HS would be telling them is an abomonation, and the person just feel NO conviction/remorse, even a need to repent and depart from?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Love the sinner, hate the sin - watchword of modern thinking. God hates the sinner, who already stands under His wrath (not future, but today).

The soul that sins will die eternally. The wages of sin for the sinner is death. The Bible is absolute on this. Thankfully the way of righteousness and freedom from sin's bondage is in the redemptive work of the cross.

To try to minimize sin or make it look less than God says it is, is sad. Reading this thread - even the title implies that there is an "alternate lifestyle" which is using the world's thinking to sugar-coat abominable, hell-demanding behavior/choices.

There is righteous and unrighteous life. Period. A sodomite/pervert is just one of many unrighteous lifestyles. So is a whoremonger or murderer.

Any group that opts to "wink" at sin from a false rationale of "love" is blaspheming God's holiness and righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body [a]to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. 1 Cor. 13:1-3

What good does it do to point out fruit or lack thereof if your speech is absent love and all they hear is "your sin is worse than mine" or "your sin is the worst of the worst"?

Scripture also tells us to examine ourselves . 5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you [e]fail the test? 2 Cor. 13:5

In accordance with Scripture, we're guilty of breaking the same laws.

But by God's grace we have been saved. How about a little humility from the Church in pointing others toward Him and His grace?

Key is IF the homosexual has godly repentence, if that person desires to stop doing the deeds,wants to go forward and repent andcome out of that lifestyle being practiced onan habitual fashion...

A saved gay person will have those,m for they are of the lord and his spirit, but if they feel NO need to repent/to change/to come out, evidence not really been saved!

 

[preacher4truth]

Love the sinner, hate the sin - watchword of modern thinking. God hates the sinner, who already stands under His wrath (not future, but today).

The soul that sins will die eternally. The wages of sin for the sinner is death. The Bible is absolute on this. Thankfully the way of righteousness and freedom from sin's bondage is in the redemptive work of the cross.

To try to minimize sin or make it look less than God says it is, is sad. Reading this thread - even the title implies that there is an "alternate lifestyle" which is using the world's thinking to sugar-coat abominable, hell-demanding behavior/choices.

There is righteous and unrighteous life. Period. A sodomite/pervert is just one of many unrighteous lifestyles. So is a whoremonger or murderer.

Any group that opts to "wink" at sin from a false rationale of "love" is blaspheming God's holiness and righteousness.

Amen to that.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Zaac]

Key is IF the homosexual has godly repentence, if that person desires to stop doing the deeds,wants to go forward and repent andcome out of that lifestyle being practiced onan habitual fashion...

A saved gay person will have those,m for they are of the lord and his spirit, but if they feel NO need to repent/to change/to come out, evidence not really been saved!

This statement is in no way exclusive to homosexual offenders.

 

[Yeshua1]

This statement is in no way exclusive to homosexual offenders.

No, but thay are the only group that seems to rationalize that this practice/behaviour is acceptable to God!

That God made them way they are, will not judge them for that lifestyle!

 

[quantumfaith]

Love the sinner, hate the sin - watchword of modern thinking. God hates the sinner, who already stands under His wrath (not future, but today).

The soul that sins will die eternally. The wages of sin for the sinner is death. The Bible is absolute on this. Thankfully the way of righteousness and freedom from sin's bondage is in the redemptive work of the cross.

To try to minimize sin or make it look less than God says it is, is sad. Reading this thread - even the title implies that there is an "alternate lifestyle" which is using the world's thinking to sugar-coat abominable, hell-demanding behavior/choices.

There is righteous and unrighteous life. Period. A sodomite/pervert is just one of many unrighteous lifestyles. So is a whoremonger or murderer.

Any group that opts to "wink" at sin from a false rationale of "love" is blaspheming God's holiness and righteousness.

I am saddened when an administrator uses, inappropriately I might add, words like "minimize", "sugar coat" and wink. None of which was stated or even implied by anyone in this thread. Saddened.

 

[Zaac]

No, but thay are the only group that seems to rationalize that this practice/behaviour is acceptable to God!

That God made them way they are, will not judge them for that lifestyle!

Perhaps they are the only group because they are the only group that the Church keeps pointing the finger at as the worst of the worst.

We've sat back and normalized every manner of heterosexual fornication and lust imaginable into our daily lives as though it's nothing, but then have the audacity to point the finger at homosexuals for proclaiming there's nothing wrong with their offenses.

If the same people telling you that you are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with you, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with you, listening to the same vile music as you do, reading the same lustful novels as you do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc., who can blame them for not wanting to listen and rationalizing their sin as many in the Church do?

Folks in the Church immediately think their sin isn't as bad as the sin of the homosexual offender and thus point the finger. But our sin is just as vile and as wretched.

Perhaps the homosexuals rationalize theirs because the folks who are supposed to have the truth are constantly presenting a picture where they rationalize their sin?

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Amen!...and Oh Me.....!

Perhaps they are the only group because they are the only group that the Church keeps pointing the finger at as the worst of the worst.

We've sat back and normalized every manner of heterosexual fornication and lust imaginable into our daily lives as though it's nothing, but then have the audacity to point the finger at homosexuals for proclaiming there's nothing wrong with their offenses.

If the same people telling you that you are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with you, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with you, listening to the same vile music as you do, reading the same lustful novels as you do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc., who can blame them for not wanting to listen and rationalizing their sin as many in the Church do?

Folks in the Church immediately think their sin isn't as bad as the sin of the homosexual offender and thus point the finger. But our sin is just as vile and as wretched.

Perhaps the homosexuals rationalize theirs because the folks who are supposed to have the truth are constantly presenting a picture where they rationalize their sin?

Well said Zaac...well said....and well....SAD too! The "church" in general has lost much of our credibility with the lost and unchurched of this world due in large part to our own inconsistencies and hypocrisy before them and God. We need Revival on a scale that is almost difficult to comprehend and I sincerely say that it ought to begin with me. I know that in my current spiritual state it is unlikely that I can do anything that can or will make a difference. I wish it wasn't so.

Bro.Greg:saint:

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Love the sinner, hate the sin - watchword of modern thinking. God hates the sinner, who already stands under His wrath (not future, but today).

Sorry, Bob, but I don't believe you can support that Scripturally. If God truly "hated" the sinner, do you think he/she could ever be brought to repentance? Why would God use the influence of the Holy Spirit to work on such as those if He hates them? Doesn't wash biblically, in my book. God bless.

 

[Zaac]

Well said Zaac...well said....and well....SAD too! The "church" in general has lost much of our credibility with the lost and unchurched of this world due in large part to our own inconsistencies and hypocrisy before them and God. We need Revival on a scale that is almost difficult to comprehend and I sincerely say that it ought to begin with me. I know that in my current spiritual state it is unlikely that I can do anything that can or will make a difference. I wish it wasn't so.

Bro.Greg:saint:

It is sad Bro. Greg. And it really does have to begin with each of us examining ourselves and desiring a holiness that will in most circles today just stand out as weird.

The SCOTUS will hand out a decision any day now that may put the Church up in arms again over an issue. And rather than us seeking a more fervent, relationship of holiness with Christ we're gonna be up in great numbers making a stank about an issue.

Instead of us doing those things which honor God and keeps our marriages and families strong so that the world gets to see more RIGHT testimonies for what a marriage ordained of a HOLY GOD is supposed to look like, we're gonna take on an issue.

If the CHURCH would seek God's Kingdom FIRST and HIS righteousness and preach HIS unadulterated truth, the things that honor Christ will be covered without us being drawn off message.

But it has got to begin with us desiring holiness and being able to reject the things we have allowed to become normalized into our daily lives.

 

[Yeshua1]

Perhaps they are the only group because they are the only group that the Church keeps pointing the finger at as the worst of the worst.

We've sat back and normalized every manner of heterosexual fornication and lust imaginable into our daily lives as though it's nothing, but then have the audacity to point the finger at homosexuals for proclaiming there's nothing wrong with their offenses.

If the same people telling you that you are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with you, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with you, listening to the same vile music as you do, reading the same lustful novels as you do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc., who can blame them for not wanting to listen and rationalizing their sin as many in the Church do?

Folks in the Church immediately think their sin isn't as bad as the sin of the homosexual offender and thus point the finger. But our sin is just as vile and as wretched.

Perhaps the homosexuals rationalize theirs because the folks who are supposed to have the truth are constantly presenting a picture where they rationalize their sin?

Its due to Homosexuals trying to support"I love jesus/God made me this way", and refuse to repent and come out of that sinful lifestyle that causes the "balme!"

 

[Zaac]

Its due to Homosexuals trying to support"I love jesus/God made me this way", and refuse to repent and come out of that sinful lifestyle that causes the "balme!"

??? Again we've got the same people telling them that they are sexually sinning are the same ones out at the bars drinking with them, watching the same normalized heterosexual soft porn on tv and in movies with them, listening to the same vile music as they do, reading the same lustful novels as they do, running around fat and overweight from overeating, families falling apart,etc, etc.?

If the Church will constantly rationalize our own sin, why are we so surprised that others do the same?

The evangelical church in America STILL has not repented of throwing the collective weight of the evangelical church behind a man who is against Jesus Christ. We rationalized that sin for an entire year plus and some are still doing so.

It is very rare that I come across a Christian, young or old, who has not bought into this world system of it being okay to watch certain levels of heterosexual fornication and lust because it's just entertainment, all the while hypocritically talking out the sides of our necks about somebody else rationalizing their sexual sin.

I guarantee to you that if you examined the last 5 movies you went out to watch, or the 5 shows that you watch on network tv consistently, that they are full of unHoly situations of which we should not be availing ourselves but we do.

But then we turn around and have the audacity to say that someone else is rationalizing the "okayness" of sin?

Let's at least be consistent.

 

[IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)]

Any individual in any unrepentant sin whether it be homosexuality, addiction, gossip, gluttony, immorality etc. cannot worship God as he should. Why? He is finding fulfillment or pleasure through satiating his carnal desires rather than being truly enriched solely through his relationship and service with God. I have found equally as difficult to try to worship with an individual with unrepentant immorality as with someone who has unrepentant pride.

 

[MB]

Any individual in any unrepentant sin whether it be homosexuality, addiction, gossip, gluttony, immorality etc. cannot worship God as he should. Why? He is finding fulfillment or pleasure through satiating his carnal desires rather than being truly enriched solely through his relationship and service with God. I have found equally as difficult to try to worship with an individual with unrepentant immorality as with someone who has unrepentant pride.

So are you with out sin? Christ said;
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
MB

 

[Robert Snow]

I hope this holds true for feminists too cause there are a lot of wives out there who just dont want to submit to their husbands.

I see this as apples and oranges. Sodomy has a much more devastating effect on God's people than submission issues. These issues are mainly between a man and his wife.

To allow unrepentant sodomites to attend worship is repugnant to me and I will not be part of it. Good thing this would not happen with the people I worship with now.

 

[Robert Snow]

The sin of the gay person is actually greater than that of the straight when it comes to the intimate part of a relationship.

God's Word says for man to lie with man is abomination. He does not say that of a man lying with a woman.

Abomination is sin, yes. But it appears that God sees it as a greater sin.

I see both as sin, but sodomy has a greater impact and, as we see in Sodom, it can have much more severe consequences. It looks like this is the bottom of the sin ladder so to speak.