No. It wasn't.
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If You're a Calvinist, what type of Calvinist are you?
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No. It wasn't.
I'm supra because of what I believe Scripture teaches about the nature of God. God's omniscience doesn't just mean He knows all; it also means He brings all things to pass. If God elects some how is He not not electing others? I don't have a major problem with my infralapsarian brethren, just a difference of opinion in this area.
A point was made that all hyper-Calvinists are supralapsarians. Quite true. Thank God that not all supralapsarians are hyper-Calvinists. What keeps me from straying into that dangerous heresy? The grace of God and the glorious message of the Gospel. Knowing that God has chosen the preaching of the Gospel as the means by which sinners are converted gives me hope that many more souls are waiting to hear the message of forgiveness of sins and eternal life. That God can use me in that endeavor is humbling and a great honor.
A point was made that all hyper-Calvinists are supralapsarians. Quite true. Thank God that not all supralapsarians are hyper-Calvinists. What keeps me from straying into that dangerous heresy? The grace of God and the glorious message of the Gospel. Knowing that God has chosen the preaching of the Gospel as the means by which sinners are converted gives me hope that many more souls are waiting to hear the message of forgiveness of sins and eternal life. That God can use me in that endeavor is humbling and a great honor.
To pigeon hole yourself into any category besides trying to be solid Christian is ridiculous. Im also a confirmed sinner, but Im getting better:smilewinkgrin::godisgood:
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seekingthetruth
New Member
Good post:thumbsup:
preacher4truth
Active Member
Then shake off the PB/Reformed/Cal/DoG distinctions you carry and never mention or tie them to your beliefs again. :laugh:
Oh, and good luck with that. It does sound really spiritual though.
One more thing, you're not getting better, you're getting worse! You drank more whiskey last time than the time before. :smilewinkgrin:
Rest assured Winman......we are all solidly DOG oriented & anti Pelagianism.
preacher4truth
Active Member
OP.
Sometimes I'm on the supra side, once in a great while the infra side.
Infra seems almost a reactionary plan to me, according to the order. I don't believe God was reactionary in His plan or purposes, and that of course, He knows all things, and brings to pass all His purpose and plan.
Supra makes more sense to me at this point in time, and seems to shed proper light on Gods Sovereignty and Omniscience/Omnisapience.
Any of you who are solidly infra, please explain why you trust the chronological order over that of supra (i.e. tell supras why they're in utter error! :laugh
Convicted 1? GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes I'm on the supra side, once in a great while the infra side.
Infra seems almost a reactionary plan to me, according to the order. I don't believe God was reactionary in His plan or purposes, and that of course, He knows all things, and brings to pass all His purpose and plan.
Supra makes more sense to me at this point in time, and seems to shed proper light on Gods Sovereignty and Omniscience/Omnisapience.
Any of you who are solidly infra, please explain why you trust the chronological order over that of supra (i.e. tell supras why they're in utter error! :laugh
Convicted 1? GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Which means anti-non cal/anti-arminian.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Preach.....your not talkin to me are you?
Yes, I am talkin' to ya. Lighten up, Francis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrllCZw8jiM :laugh:
seekingthetruth
New Member
Preach.....your not talkin to me are you?
Preacher4truth reminds of my pastor when I was growing up. (He recently passed away and I sure miss him)
My pastor would do anything he could to help anybody. He always had his Bible handy and was ready to share the gospel with everyone.
But, just like p4t, I always felt like I was in trouble when he talked to me. he didn't mean it that way, that was just the way he was. Very straight forward.
Like I said earlier, I may not agree with p4t on everything, but I have a growing respect for him.
John
seekingthetruth
New Member
My pastor would show up unnannounced on many Saturday mornings at my house and take me to help do some haying or worm cows or work on the church.
I get the feeling that if preacher4truth knew me in person, that he would put me to work too.
John
I get the feeling that if preacher4truth knew me in person, that he would put me to work too.
John
I would also be interested to hear how the infra-Calvinists (who seem to repeatedly on this post say that God does not choose some to go to hell, but that all are on their way to hell until God elects to save some) deal with passages like:
Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of thim who calls—12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”...
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills....
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
Mark 4:11 And he said to them, “To you has been given gthe secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables,
12 so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.”
Again, I know what the non-cals have said, but I would like to hear how an infra-Calvinist explains these verses.
Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of thim who calls—12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”...
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills....
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
Mark 4:11 And he said to them, “To you has been given gthe secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables,
12 so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.”
Again, I know what the non-cals have said, but I would like to hear how an infra-Calvinist explains these verses.
Read my number 1. Man naturally has no desire to come to Christ. I said nobody that puts their faith will be rejected because that's true. Nobody will believe, yet God say no because they are not elect. It's that those not elect will never want to believe. The elect wouldn't have wanted to if not for God changing their heart of stone to a heart of flesh.
God is not standing at the gate of heaven with people coming to Him and he chooses some and rejects others. Rather, God is standing at the gate calling for people to repent and no one does. So He chooses some.
I hold myself to being in the Amyraldism camp, why would that position"exclude" from Calvinist, as hold to all of thedoctrines of Grace, just not fully commited to limit atonement nature of the Cross?
OP.
Sometimes I'm on the supra side, once in a great while the infra side.
Infra seems almost a reactionary plan to me, according to the order. I don't believe God was reactionary in His plan or purposes, and that of course, He knows all things, and brings to pass all His purpose and plan.
Supra makes more sense to me at this point in time, and seems to shed proper light on Gods Sovereignty and Omniscience/Omnisapience.
Any of you who are solidly infra, please explain why you trust the chronological order over that of supra (i.e. tell supras why they're in utter error! :laugh
Convicted 1? GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Think that the Lord did NOT cause the fall, determine satan/Adam to Fall, but permitted both to happen, and that he had predetermine what would be His response to both events...
Also, don't think God predestines both saved/lost, that He active in election His people chosen to salavtion, but "passes" over all allows the unsaved to do as they would nornally please, which would be to reject Christ!
Also, don't see God as being author of Sin/death etc, but that he allowed it, and has verything fit together within His master plan!
Historically Amyraldism has not been considered part of the DoG. Definite atonement is inherent to the DoG.
seekingthetruth
New Member
The non-Calvinists just couldn't resist posting in this thread. Like a moth drawn to the flame.
But it is so much fun!
John
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