Glad to hear that there are men like you who take their responsibility serious. I have seen too many times when Satan gets a foothold when the pastor and leadership let things slide.
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IFB compared to Baptist churches
- Thread starter joey
- Start date
Is that what he said? Or did he say that they came up and sat in his service?
What, pray tell, does that mean?
Yes, I do. I've never hid that fact. My point regarding you and others in many of these threads is your over-generalization errors that say all IFBers are the same.
For example, I've been a member of IFB churches that are as bad as many people expect them to be. And I've been a member of IFB churches that are nothing like those. I'm currently a member of an IFB church where ties are *not* the norm, and I haven't heard a sermon on what women should wear in over a year. Prefers the KJV, and sees new members join at least once a month.
You're talking about me specifically, so, by all means, please explain.
Frankly, this is an outstanding statement, and should be the end of the discussion.
Perhaps you should.
glfredrick
New Member
I am done with this thread, but you deserve an explanation... Way to go means that you have lived up to my general expectations concerning IFB persons. You picked up an argument that was not your own and engaged two men with it, even when they gave you multiple chances to bow out after explaining rationale.
Indeed, way to go... You are right in your own eyes.
In this thread we had to assume that, hence the question. I don't see that I have "over-generalized" anything, for right now nothing has happened that deserves any generalization. I am -- as I said above -- merely watching as the shepherd of my flock.
Additionally, I do not take up the politically-correct track of non-profiling. I will profile as I see fit, including a group meeting in my building that has the potential to cause dissension. If we used similar discretion concerning terrorist activity we would see less of it for we would watch the people who are actually responsible for the acts, but the PC attitude of our country insures that we watch everyone else instead.
It is your admission here (and similar admissions in other threads of this nature) that cause me to be the watchman on the wall concerning my flock. Both you and I -- and virtually everyone else in the American religious world -- KNOW that some IFB persons or congregations can be downright nasty and divisive. IF I happen to have one of them under the roof of my own building that would in fact be a problem for me and for my congregation, hence my concern and my observation. Because inroads have already been made, I am doubly concerned.
I am noting your argumentative spirit. You took up something that is not even your battle and have fought hard -- even harder after it was explained to you the stance and reasons why -- which is even weirder after your admission above that you know about those sorts of IFB congregations.
You, without even realizing it, are a self-fulfilling prophecy concerning the divisive nature that others like myself fear.
Only one observation about your response: No acknowledgement that not all IFBers are the same.
Your original post that set me off said that you expected a negative outcome from these people that you barely know. You relayed no past behavior from these particular IFBers that would cause you to believe such negativity from them. You judged them based on others, that had nothing to do with this group to our knowledge, knowing that not all IFBers are the same. In other words, you expect all IFBers to be the bad ones.
And then you comment that I'm the one who thinks he's right in his own eyes? Aren't we both guilty of that?
I say again that your previous post was excellent, and should be the end of the matter. We watch, hoping for the best, but doing our duty to beware the ones that disappoint us. That goes for any denomination, not just IFBers.
Apparently, after I said it, you didn't agree that it should be the end of the matter, and continued to post.
Really? The point was that y'all are expecting some IFBers to try to divide a congregation, argue about which version of the bible is the "right" one to use, and maybe even overthrow the pastor and take over the church building.
Did I come in and try to divide your church congregation? Overthrow your pastor? Argue that you're using the wrong version of the bible? Poisoned your congregation against you by pointing out that your wife wears men's clothing?
Or did I point out that you have a prejudice against IFBers in general, and none of 'em meet your standards?
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seekingthetruth
New Member
I go to an IFB church.
However, you will never hear anyone call it that. We are independent, and fundamental, and most definately Baptist, but we do not carry a label.
And we are about as far removed from a Hyles camp church as you can get. No legalism at all. Come as you are and praise the Lord....that's about it.
Why do some think that Hyles camp churches are the only IFB churches there are?
John
However, you will never hear anyone call it that. We are independent, and fundamental, and most definately Baptist, but we do not carry a label.
And we are about as far removed from a Hyles camp church as you can get. No legalism at all. Come as you are and praise the Lord....that's about it.
Why do some think that Hyles camp churches are the only IFB churches there are?
John
I don't think anyone has said that. If you don't like being a part of a movement that is known by many thousands of people to be a safe haven for legalism and ignorance then find a another movement.
The fact is that there are no doubt very good churches in the IFB movement. But the fact of the matter is also that there are also very many legalistic, backwards churches led by uneducated pastors and filled with self-righteous congregants.
We SBC folks have a similar problem. There are many thousands of liberals in our ranks. Many deny the infallibility of the Scriptures. Many thousands more are man-centered, ego petting, shallow entertainment centers rather than churches.
Many IFBers see this and paint us all with a broad brush. But the fact is that there are also many thousands more SBCers who are orthodox and evangelical.
If it gets so bad that I don't want to be identified with man-centered ministries or liberals then I need to find another movement and stop whining about the criticisms I receive for the faults that truly do abide within my own movement.
Don't be so hard on the SBC:laugh:
Could you name some of their leaders?
I'd prefer to not to name names.
It is common knowledge, however, that before the conservative resurgence many of our seminaries were riddled with liberal professors.
As far as man-centered ministry is concerned our convention is nearly over run with these type churches.
"Were" is past tense. I am not sure where you hang out, but where I have lived I have met some pastors who have not kept up the skills they learned in seminary but I would not call them liberal. I have seen a number of SBC churches are near death and some have died because of their failure to reach local people. Originally they were started in areas where men in the military were stationed and eventually ended up living there. Now they are old men and women who grew up in the south and have not or have refused to reach people in the area where they live. I would call that a lack of zeal. I guess you could cal that liberalism. Or rather practical atheists.
Just follow the money trail and that will tell you what people value most. I can remember a man telling a few of us that all he wanted was enough money to buy some bicycles for some of the pastors so they did not have to walk so much. About 1996 I spoke with a missionary from Uganda and he told me that the average pastor was a Christian 3 years and pastoring for two. I know from another friend of mine who was in a neighboring country that the services were three hours long and the sermon was 1.5 hours. He also told me that the average pastor pastors 3 churches and works a regular job.
All they would like is a bicycle and we want a larger home and new church buildings with a coffee bar that are comfortable. We want a home to house our books and trophies with a bedroom for each child and an extra for visitors.
glfredrick
New Member
Beware conflating culture with gospel...
Many have gone down that road and end up as wreckage!
Many have gone down that road and end up as wreckage!