Illegals and the church

[Robert Snow]

So, according to you ("Being the son of an immigrant, I guess you don't know much about unions or workers rights."), immigrants, or sons of immigrants, don't know much about unions or workers rights. That's your truth Snow?

Many immigrants work for less that they should which brings down the wages of working folk.

BTW, you attributed this to being "liberal." Doesn't the 'liberal" allow for almost all immigration? And isn't it the "conservative" belief that is more opposed to it?

You are so quick to throw around the word "liberal." Maybe it would help if you know what you were talking about before you assigned labels to others!

 

[matt wade]

Many immigrants work for less that they should which brings down the wages of working folk.

BTW, you attributed this to being "liberal." Doesn't the 'liberal" allow for almost all immigration? And isn't it the "conservative" belief that is more opposed to it?

You are so quick to throw around the word "liberal." Maybe it would help if you know what you were talking about before you assigned labels to others!

I threw the liberal word out there because you were showing how much a racist you were and liberals tend to be racist.

Who are you to say what a person should work for? If a legal immigrant to this country wants to work for a particular wage, what business of it is yours? The only reason you care is because it hurts the liberal Unions that you are so fond of. Well, if legal immigrants hurt Unions, then bring on the liberal immigrants!

 

[Aaron]

In another thread on General Baptist discussions, (illegals immigrants and the church ) PreachinJesus (supposedly ) quoted Mexdeaf as saying
"many of our immigration rules are both archane and prejudicial towards hispanic populations. This is politics thing and I don't want to get too far into it without permission. Suffice to say there is more than meets the eye with current immigration laws."

If you look at post 12 of the above link, Mexdeaf said "Sadly a lot of the problems are a result of TERRIBLE immigration laws." He did NOT say the laws are prejudicial towards hispanic populations.!

That is the crux of this thread - what is the political implications. I like what Tim said "Don't ask, don't tell" ( unless the church is offering a paid job)

It may appear that the US is prejudicial toward's Hispanic, but that is mainly the population below the border.

Actually, my political view is:
1. I have no problem who comes into the country - other then criminals, contagious disease, ect.
2. I have no problem if an alien takes a job - even if it takes an "American job" - whatever that is.
3. I do have a problem when a foreign comes into the county, delivers a child, and the baby is an automatic US Citizen. I believe at least on parent should be a US citizen.
4. ANY GOVERNMENT assistance program should NOT be eligible to any non-citizen. Churches and social agcy should be allowed to serve whomever they please.

Salty

seems like I have a couple of more items, but my brain is gong on an extended Mt Dew break.

Paul won Onesimus to Christ, then sent him back to his owner Philemon. If an illegal comes to church, he should be instructed to return to his own country and do things legally.

 

[Salty]

Paul won Onesimus to Christ, then sent him back to his owner Philemon. If an illegal comes to church, he should be instructed to return to his own country and do things legally.

There you go using scripture :thumbsup: excellent point

 

[Robert Snow]

I threw the liberal word out there because you were showing how much a racist you were and liberals tend to be racist.

Who are you to say what a person should work for? If a legal immigrant to this country wants to work for a particular wage, what business of it is yours? The only reason you care is because it hurts the liberal Unions that you are so fond of. Well, if legal immigrants hurt Unions, then bring on the liberal immigrants!

Mainly it's the illegal immigrants who hurt American workers. I guess you are not an American worker.

 

[matt wade]

Mainly it's the illegal immigrants who hurt American workers. I guess you are not an American worker.

Right Snow...Since I'm the son of an immigrant, I don't know much about unions or workers rights and now I guess I'm also not an American worker. Why are you so racist Snow?

 

[donnA]

has nothing to do with racism, locally factories my husband would qualify for are full of hispanics, who can't read or speak english and understand instructions. My son is a supervisor, and nearly all his team can't speak english, and an american can't hardly get a job there. There are very few places here you can work without an education, and this means americans can't find work. this is a fact, if anyone likes it or not.
we even know people who are unemployed and tried to go back to some farm work to at least be able to work, nothing, all migrants.

 

[targus]

has nothing to do with racism, locally factories my husband would qualify for are full of hispanics, who can't read or speak english and understand instructions. My son is a supervisor, and nearly all his team can't speak english, and an american can't hardly get a job there. There are very few places here you can work without an education, and this means americans can't find work. this is a fact, if anyone likes it or not.
we even know people who are unemployed and tried to go back to some farm work to at least be able to work, nothing, all migrants.

Are these legal or illegal immigrants at your son's work?

If they are illegal why is it tolerated by the local citizenry?

Has anyone attempted to report this situation to law enforcement?

 

[Robert Snow]

Right Snow...Since I'm the son of an immigrant, I don't know much about unions or workers rights and now I guess I'm also not an American worker. Why are you so racist Snow?

I'm not a racist, although you try to paint me as one. I guess in telling the truth it brings out the worst in you.

BTW, my wife was born in Mexico. She is 100% Hispanic and we have been married for over 37 years. Again, get all the facts before you continue to make a fool of yourself!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

has nothing to do with racism, locally factories my husband would qualify for are full of hispanics, who can't read or speak english and understand instructions. My son is a supervisor, and nearly all his team can't speak english, and an american can't hardly get a job there. There are very few places here you can work without an education, and this means americans can't find work. this is a fact, if anyone likes it or not.
we even know people who are unemployed and tried to go back to some farm work to at least be able to work, nothing, all migrants.

Yep my point is proved out again. Of course they won't hire americans to much paperwork and too much responsibility and too much pay. Keep the bottom line up cost of workers down.

 

[matt wade]

I'm not a racist, although you try to paint me as one. I guess in telling the truth it brings out the worst in you.

BTW, my wife was born in Mexico. She is 100% Hispanic and we have been married for over 37 years. Again, get all the facts before you continue to make a fool of yourself!

So, would you also say that your wife doesn't know much about unions or workers rights?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Are these legal or illegal immigrants at your son's work?

If they are illegal why is it tolerated by the local citizenry?

Has anyone attempted to report this situation to law enforcement?

And if it is Local business leaders will throw a hissy fit and either nothing will be done or illegals will be rounded up and sent away for a time. Economics once again. Note the Council of Foriegn Relations special report

Professor Gordon H. Hanson of the University of California, San Diego approaches immigration through the lens of economics. The results are surprising. By focusing on the economic costs and benefits of legal and illegal immigration, Professor Hanson concludes that stemming illegal immigration would likely lead to a net drain on the U.S. economy—a finding that calls into question many of the proposals to increase funding for border protection. Moreover, Hanson argues that guest worker programs now being considered by Congress fail to account for the economic incentives that drive illegal immigration, which benefits both the undocumented workers who desire to work and live in the United States and employers who want flexible, low-cost labor.

 

[donnA]

Are these legal or illegal immigrants at your son's work?

many are, every few years they get raided. one factory over there got raided so many times they eventually had to close down becasue they were mostly illegals, I think the governement had something to do with that.

If they are illegal why is it tolerated by the local citizenry?

what is anyone to do? if you report them they don't always chceck up on reports. W ehave a heavy population of migrant workers and many who just stayed, and a lot of them are illegal.

Has anyone attempted to report this situation to law enforcement?

see above

Yep my point is proved out again. Of course they won't hire americans to much paperwork and too much responsibility and too much pay. Keep the bottom line up cost of workers down

when my sons tarted there it was the same start pay as everyone else, illegal or not. of course he quickly rose higher becasue he's educated and can read and speak english.

 

[exscentric]

Many government agencies are not allowed to report illegals when they are found in OR. Police have only recently decided to check on status of those they arrest. They put them away for their sentence THEN deport them. One County sent Mexico a bill for the illegals in their jail. They are still waiting for payment :tongue3: but I liked their inventiveness!

Only a year ago they decided it wasn't a wise idea to issue them drivers licenses. For several years it was harder for a citizen to get a license than an illegal. Citizens had to prove citizenship but the illegals didn't.

 

[Robert Snow]

So, would you also say that your wife doesn't know much about unions or workers rights?

Yes, she doesn't have experience with these type of companies. She has worked for the same business for going on twelve years. Her salary has increased very little in the last six. The owner of the business, of course, had $100,000 to spend on his daughters wedding. He flies his family back and forth to India and stays for weeks at a time, but he doesn't have any money to give his employees a raise.

Don't get me wrong, he owns the business and can do as he pleases. Over all he is not a bad person, but I believe a Christian should be fair to his workers and share some of the profits with them. After all, they are the ones who make him the money he has.

As far as I am concerned. I am a machinist, and have been for over thirty years. The first eight years my salary increased over 300%. In the last 30 years it has not even doubled. The problem is that companies have gone to China to take advantage of cheap labor. They should care for the American workder and pay them good precentage of the profits. Again, after all we are the ones that make the product. I believe business owners should make a good profit, and they should get the lions share, but I also believe they should be thoughtful of the workers they hire.

 

[targus]

Yes, she doesn't have experience with these type of companies. She has worked for the same business for going on twelve years. Her salary has increased very little in the last six. The owner of the business, of course, had $100,000 to spend on his daughters wedding. He flies his family back and forth to India and stays for weeks at a time, but he doesn't have any money to give his employees a raise.

Don't get me wrong, he owns the business and can do as he pleases. Over all he is not a bad person, but I believe a Christian should be fair to his workers and share some of the profits with them. After all, they are the ones who make him the money he has.

As far as I am concerned. I am a machinist, and have been for over thirty years. The first eight years my salary increased over 300%. In the last 30 years it has not even doubled. The problem is that companies have gone to China to take advantage of cheap labor. They should care for the American workder and pay them good precentage of the profits. Again, after all we are the ones that make the product. I believe business owners should make a good profit, and they should get the lions share, but I also believe they should be thoughtful of the workers they hire.

The answer lies within yourself.

Instead of being content with what God have given you, you complain about almost every thing ...

 

[Robert Snow]

The answer lies within yourself.

Do you complain? I know you do, so be careful or someone will mistake you for a hypocrite.

 

[targus]

Do you complain? I know you do, so be careful or someone will mistake you for a hypocrite.

Do you consider yourself to be a hypocrite in this particular matter?

All I did was post your own words.

Why are you not content with your earnings?

Why do you begrudge your employer his profits?

Does your employer not pay you a fair wage for your work?

 

[Salty]

Does your employer not pay you a fair wage for your work?

and isnt that the wage you agreed upon?

 

[Robert Snow]

and isnt that the wage you agreed upon?

It all the machine shops hold down wages, what is a 58 year old machinist do, become an electrician?

BTW, I didn't complain about my employer's pay scale. I simply said we should get a decent wage. Is there something wrong with making this statement?