I'm a Calvinist. Change My Mind.

[BobRyan]

Because there is a big difference between physical and spiritual dead! The former are totally "dead", and can do nothing. !

True.

In Exodus Pharaoh "hardens his heart" - but Pharaoh is already spiritually dead -- that dead person choses to harden his heart. That is an action, a choice.

And John 6 says that all we need is the "drawing of God" to act/ to choose / to come to Christ... it does not say "you must first be born again and THEN you can accept the Gospel"

"I STAND at the door and knock - if anyone hears my voices AND OPENS the door - I will come in" Rev 3

 

[BobRyan]

Dear Ones Beloved of the Father,

Two points on these issues may be helpful. Both demand a little Systematic Theology.

First, Paul says in Ephesians 2 that we, that is the natural man, is dead in trespasses and sins.

Second, Jesus said, of Himself, in John 11 that he was the resurrection.

Conclusion, for someone to be "born again" or "born from above" they must be resurrected. How can dead men raise themselves to life? How is it that dead men "exercise their free will" in spiritual matters?

It seems the Scripture says we love him because he first loved us. Or can I assume that this statement has nothing to do with God's initiatory step as "author and finisher" of our faith.

Thank you and please think on that.

rd

Calvinism progresses by the method of 'extreme inference' - Arminianism advances via "explicit statements in scripture"

Thus there is no text saying "you must first be born again - and then you can accept the Gospel" - it is merely much-inferred.


Question for you... is this post really "too much Bible" to make the point?

1. You have free will -- I cannot "change your mind".
2. I have not started yet - that was just an introductory question/proposal

When I show that Calvinism does not survive the sola scriptura test of scripture -- I usually start off like this -- showing the Arminian Gospel that is presented in the Bible


Rev 3

20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.


Arminian “invitation model”
Rev 3 “I STAND at the door and knock” these alone without Christ “on the inside” must choose to “open the door” and then “I will come in”.
2 Cor 5 “We BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God”
Rom 11:13-15 “I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.”
John 1:11 “He came to His OWN – and His OWN received Him not”
Isaiah 5:4 ““What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?”
Rom 10:9 “9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

Luke 7
28 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
29 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.



There is no “Christless salvation” condition.
The Gospel presents salvation as

“Christ IN you the hope of glory” Col 1:27
“no longer I who lives but Christ who lives IN Me” Gal 2:20-21

Rom
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.


God so Loved the WORLD -- yes "really".
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD" not just the FEW of Matthew 7
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish" -- not just the FEW of Matt 7
1 John 2:2 "Jesus is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" not just the FEW of Matt 7.
1 Tim 2: "3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 John 4: "14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world".

The objective unbiased Bible student can see from the above - that Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture
The ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 that we find in the Bible - is perfectly proclaimed in Arminian doctrine

In Calvinism these are all just so many texts "to be fixed"

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 10 says Nature itself is preaching the Gospel.

Rom 10
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”​

Quotes Ps 19:1-5
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

[/quote]

What is the gospel?

Pilot asks Christ "what is truth" -- does not change the message in the text. The problem you are having is "with the text"

Are you saying that God saves apart from His Word?

Read the details in Romans -- scripture argues that

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

is being satisfied by

Rom 10
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”​

Quotes Ps 19:1-5
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

How, specifically, does He do that?

Calvinism is always stuck on "how to BE God"

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 6 PM Pacific.

 

[thatbrian]

Romans 10 says Nature itself is preaching the Gospel.

Rom 10
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”​

Quotes Ps 19:1-5
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

I'll try again. What is the gospel?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Notice that Jesus didn't say, "the scriptures testify of the Triune God", but that "the scriptures testify of Me". Nor did he say, "the Holy Spirit will testify of the Triune God", but that "the Holy Spirit will testify of Me".

You have much to learn, IF you are teachable!

 

[Benjamin]

If you're not on my ignore list because you've acted like that backside of a horse, then, please post below in an effort to convert me to your competing view.

First, you should probably confirm whether your belief is that God pre-determined to be a Calvinist or if you freely came to your own conclusions on that theological position?

 

[thatbrian]

First, you should probably confirm whether your belief is that God pre-determined to be a Calvinist or if you freely came to your own conclusions on that theological position?

How would you suggest I make that determination?

 

[BobRyan]

I'll try again. What is the gospel?

How much of the Gospel does God have to tell someone before He is allowed to convict of sin according to John 16?

How much of the Gospel is presented in Psalms 19:1-5 in your view?

Is God telling the truth in Romans 10:16-18 in your view?

 

[thatbrian]

How much of the Gospel does God have to tell someone before He is allowed to convict of sin according to John 16?

How much of the Gospel is presented in Psalms 19:1-5 in your view?

Is God telling the truth in Romans 10:16-18 in your view?

Not many people I ask know what the gospel is, which explains a lot about why so many hold to a false "gospel".

 

[JohnDeereFan]

You have much to learn, IF you are teachable!

Fine. Tell me what I said that's wrong.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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