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I'm a Calvinist. Change My Mind.
- Thread starter thatbrian
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Ok will offer some posts - but first...
If you believe that God is sovereign -- and that he controls our actions - then when I debunk Calvinism "sola scriptura" you must then conclude that God caused me to do that. And in that case - why fight against God?
In fact I could then argue "I really really don't want to expose all these Bible contradictions in Calvinism - but God is making me do it"
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Having said all that I will grant you this as I have said on another thread - Calvinism is the only theological framework that is consistent with OSAS.
Firstly, Calvinism and sola scriptura are two different things.
Secondly, I do not believe that God controls our actions (in the way that you imagine He does. we aren't robots). I believe that God is sovereign and man is responsible: "You meant it for evil. God meant it for good".
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Are only non-Cals on your ignore list? If so, I don't think you will get much of an exercise.
Besides only God can change someone's heart, so why would anyone try?
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I agree with that first part of your statement. As for the second part, debate and study lead to my views changing nearly 20 years ago.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
True. What I meant was "debunk Calvinism - via sola scriptura" testing. Sorry for the confusion.
but you and I do agree that God knows every single thing you will do -- before you do it... just as He knew everything Christ would do -- before He did it.
Yes. He knows.
It is inconsistent with your Theology to ask people to "change your mind" via argumentation or reason etc... I'd think you should know that.
How is that inconsistent?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
1. You have free will -- I cannot "change your mind".
2. I have not started yet - that was just an introductory question/proposal
When I show that Calvinism does not survive the sola scriptura test of scripture -- I usually start off like this -- showing the Arminian Gospel that is presented in the Bible
Rev 3
20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
Arminian “invitation model”
Rev 3 “I STAND at the door and knock” these alone without Christ “on the inside” must choose to “open the door” and then “I will come in”.
2 Cor 5 “We BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God”
Rom 11:13-15 “I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them.”
John 1:11 “He came to His OWN – and His OWN received Him not”
Isaiah 5:4 ““What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it?”
Rom 10:9 “9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Matt 23
37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!
Luke 7
28 When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John.
29 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.
There is no “Christless salvation” condition.
The Gospel presents salvation as
“Christ IN you the hope of glory” Col 1:27
“no longer I who lives but Christ who lives IN Me” Gal 2:20-21
Rom
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
God so Loved the WORLD -- yes "really".
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD" not just the FEW of Matthew 7
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish" -- not just the FEW of Matt 7
1 John 2:2 "Jesus is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" not just the FEW of Matt 7.
1 Tim 2: "3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1 John 4: "14 We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world".
The objective unbiased Bible student can see from the above - that Calvinism does not survive the test of scripture
The ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 that we find in the Bible - is perfectly proclaimed in Arminian doctrine
In Calvinism these are all just so many texts "to be fixed"
Actually, Bob, the only way in which you could change my mind would be if I had Libertarian Free Will, which you would claim I do.
I don't have all day. I could get hit by the very bus that Arminians are always worried about people getting hit by.
The rest of your post is far, far too long. Please post single-point replies, or this gets too difficult.
Calvinists claim that once they are regenerated they do have free will.
Yeah! TOO much scripture in your posts. Cut that out, Bob!
Bluefalcon
Member
Did God create the majority of people for no other reason than to damn them for his own self glory?
Bluefalcon
Member
You know, vessels of wrath and all that?
Bluefalcon
Member
Did God cause Adam's sin?
Bluefalcon
Member
Does God impute damning sin to people before they actually sin?
Bluefalcon
Member
Answer some of these so we know what kind of Calvinist you are?
Uh, no. The regenerated will is now bound in the law of New Life in Christ.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Uh? What is it with starting sentences with the word "uh"?
I've read on BB several times from Calvinists that regeneration frees the 'bondage of the will' and allows one to make free will decisions. Yeah, yeah, I know-- "got a link?" Kind of busy right now, can't be bothered to look.
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