Now that's politicks.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I'm outraged!
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
Now that's politicks.
What are you going to do if/when you find out that Trump paid for abortions?
Get with the program ITL:
Trump is a voracious liar in all areas of his life and about everything incredibly distasteful that might disqualify him from being a President, but he is must be believed in every area where he claims he will support his enabler's agenda.
I think it there is a legitimate criticism to be made about Hillary Clinton enabling Bill Clinton's abuse of women and his influence, but Trump's supporters are doing the same thing with their candidate, with eyes wide open, yet claiming to stand for truth and the name of Jesus.
He said last fall that he's never asked God for forgiveness. I think it's obvious he's unrepentant.
Zaac
Well-Known Member
Yes now he immediately starts comparing what he did to not be as bad as what someone else did.
I think to the folks who ain't looking for excuses to still vote for that man, it's OBVIOUS he's STILL unrepentant.A repentant heart wouldn't have tried to excuse what he said as "locker room banter".
And again, the repentant heart would have taken responsibility for what he did instead of trying to make it seem less disgusting because Bill Clinton did something.
Ain't nothing about this man asking for forgiveness. And he has shown himself to be as unrepentant as he bragged of being.
He apologized more than once. Yes he faced his accusers with their own sins.Yes now he immediately starts comparing what he did to not be as bad as what someone else did.
A repentant heart wouldn't have tried to excuse what he said as "locker room banter".
And again, the repentant heart would have taken responsibility for what he did instead of trying to make it seem less disgusting because Bill Clinton did something.
Ain't nothing about this man asking for forgiveness. And he has shown himself to be as unrepentant as he bragged of being.
HankD
Again, that was him referring NOT to their abortion tactics, but to them helping poor women and giving medical aid to women apart from abortions...
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
Okay, I have not read the entire thread. But something that disgusts me is seeing people say, as they have in so many places the past few days, that what Trump said in the audio recording is "normal" for men. Grabbing women by their genitals and making unwanted advances on them is normal? Are we really going with this? Really? Really??
I have no doubt that men are more spontaneously sexual than women. I wouldn't know, being a woman, but I have no doubt that having sexual thoughts or desires towards others is normal for men. (It can happen with women, too, but based on data it is much more characteristic of men.) But, there is a huge difference between simply having those thoughts or desires, and treating and speaking of women like they are objects. If this is considered socially acceptable it needs to change.
I can't stomach Hillary or Trump. I felt this way long before the audio came out.
I have no doubt that men are more spontaneously sexual than women. I wouldn't know, being a woman, but I have no doubt that having sexual thoughts or desires towards others is normal for men. (It can happen with women, too, but based on data it is much more characteristic of men.) But, there is a huge difference between simply having those thoughts or desires, and treating and speaking of women like they are objects. If this is considered socially acceptable it needs to change.
I can't stomach Hillary or Trump. I felt this way long before the audio came out.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
You realize you contradicted not only what people are saying, but what you said yourself? No one is saying that doing those things is normal. Not one person has said that, either here on the board or in the news, or on facebook. No where.
What people have said is normal is the saying of those things. While I don't condone men saying those things, I can confirm that it is indeed the social norm for guys to say things like that. And not only that, but much worse. It's called "braggadocio". It's a person putting forth what they would do in a hypothetical situation. It's very akin to hyperbole, but its aim is to make the person look better in the eyes of the person hearing it.
Trump wasn't bragging about what he could do to women. He was bragging about how big of a star he was, and that he could get away with anything.
Either way, you should probably quit your slandering. Again, no one has said anywhere that doing those things is normal. They've said that saying those things is normal. And it is; that's a fact. Just like getting smashed drunk is normal. Or smoking weed is normal. It doesn't mean that you condone it. It just means it's normal.
I agree, it is not normal and if it is not normal than it is not normal to say such things ... especially for Christians. It has not been my normal experience in the military, in the workplace, in the locker room, at church ... anywhere. If this is the way your friends speak I'd say get some new, normal friends. Speaking about women in this way is not normal and should not be tolerated. Blessings.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
If that has honestly been your experience, then good for you that you managed to somehow avoid the world. I heard talk like that in the locker room as a teenager in Christian School. I heard talk like that in dorm and locker room of Christian College (admittedly less than in high school, but there still was some). I heard talk like that in Basic Training. I heard talk like that in my first company in the Army. I heard talk like that in my second company, and through both deployments (especially while on deployment). I heard talk like that in my third company. I got out of the Army, and heard talk like that in my first, second and third jobs. My fourth job was as a referee, so I didn't really hear any talk at all (being partly deaf due to explosions has its advantages as a referee). My fifth (current) job is owned by a man in the church who also runs the prison ministry, so I rarely hear any "locker room" talk. But go in the back when he's not around, and you'll hear it.
Do I participate in it? No. Everyone who knows me (including my soldiers when I was in the Army) knows I don't cuss or use vulgarities. But that doesn't stop them from talking like that around me. Nothing sexual is off-limits to the world if there are only males present.
Does it surprise me that Trump used language like that? To use a phrase that Zaac likes to use, why should I be shocked that the world acts like the world? The fact is, whether you want to admit it or not, it is normal. Does that make it right? No. But it is normal.
My wife went to a Christian college. From what she said and from what her friends said I was led to believe that the "boys" at Christian colleges are much more likely to say and do things that are not very Christian ... much more inclined that way than the fellows I knew at the state school I went to. It may be for the same reasons that Baptists and Mormons have more closet alcoholics than not-churched people. I am not sure.
In the military, perhaps it depends on the kind of unit a person is attached to. Most the fellows in the unit, 97th Signal, I was with were pretty well educated, were relatively thoughtful about issues ... and they did not use this type of language nor exhibit such an attitude toward women.
As I said, maybe times have changed. If so it is sad.
I respectfully disagree that it is normal.
Sapper Woody
Well-Known Member
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you didn't mean to say what you just said. But to give you a heads up, you just called all the soldiers I served with uneducated and unthoughtful. Again, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn't think through how it sounded. But you said what you said, regardless of intent.
Kind of like I'm giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, and you are unwilling to do.
Disagree all you like. But if something happens everywhere, is accepted, and is even expected, it is "normal". Just like the examples I gave before of drinking and smoking weed. "Society" looks down on getting drunk and embarrassing yourself. But people do it all the time, and even brag about how drunk they got. It's become "normal". "Society" looks down on pot-smokers. But it's now become acceptable to smoke weed (as long as you don't get caught where it's illegal). It has become "normal". Just like being promiscuous is still looked down upon by society. But that type of lifestyle has become "normal", even encouraged in some places.
The thing is, you and I don't get to decide what is normal. It's not normal to be a God-loving, born-again Christian. It's not normal to evangelize and proselytize. It's not normal to go to church more than on Sunday morning.
The world gets to decide what is normal; not we, the minority. I'm agreeing with you that it shouldn't be normal to speak like that. Unfortunately, it's not my call or your call. It has become normal. When my joes noticed that I didn't speak like that, I stood out. When my joes noticed that I didn't cuss, I stood out. If you stand out, you are not part of the norm.
I agree that the desires are normal along with the talk for the male gender.
That is normal for the flesh which desires and deeds we as the children of God we are supposed to mortify.
I personally know of one instance of a non-saved (at the time) individual who actually carried out the desire which was uninvited by the victim.
Another individual who was a fellow Bible school student - my friend and married as was I, my wife and I had children at the time they did not being newly-weds.
They moved into an apartment house. Right next door to their apartment lived a young lady who was a single career oriented person going to work every morning.
She was young and very attractive (fair to look upon as the Bible says).
My friend confessed to me some of these very thoughts concerning his desires we have been discussing when he would see her.
It was not motivated by male testosterone but by guilt and he was seeking counsel from an older married man.
IMO these desires should not be considered normal for the Christians but carnal, fleshy and should be acknowledged to God (1 John 1:9). If one is single and has a problem Paul's advice is to get married rather than burn with lust.
If married 1 Corinthians 7:4-5.
How do we mortify (kill, put to death) the flesh?
Simple - DON'T FEED THE FLESH, starve it to death - feed the spirit with scripture, hymns, fellowship with the saints...
Colossians 3
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Our joy and contentment in life should be from the Spirit not the flesh.
IMO this cannot be done without a commitment to a good local church.
HankD
That is normal for the flesh which desires and deeds we as the children of God we are supposed to mortify.
I personally know of one instance of a non-saved (at the time) individual who actually carried out the desire which was uninvited by the victim.
Another individual who was a fellow Bible school student - my friend and married as was I, my wife and I had children at the time they did not being newly-weds.
They moved into an apartment house. Right next door to their apartment lived a young lady who was a single career oriented person going to work every morning.
She was young and very attractive (fair to look upon as the Bible says).
My friend confessed to me some of these very thoughts concerning his desires we have been discussing when he would see her.
It was not motivated by male testosterone but by guilt and he was seeking counsel from an older married man.
IMO these desires should not be considered normal for the Christians but carnal, fleshy and should be acknowledged to God (1 John 1:9). If one is single and has a problem Paul's advice is to get married rather than burn with lust.
If married 1 Corinthians 7:4-5.
How do we mortify (kill, put to death) the flesh?
Simple - DON'T FEED THE FLESH, starve it to death - feed the spirit with scripture, hymns, fellowship with the saints...
Colossians 3
15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Our joy and contentment in life should be from the Spirit not the flesh.
IMO this cannot be done without a commitment to a good local church.
HankD
Last edited:
evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
I figured as much honestly. As I said, if it's considered socially acceptable that needs to change.
I do not like how people are completely dismissing it and acting like it's acceptable. Sorry, that does bother me and it baffles me to hear it coming from Christian and conservative circles who would be all over any other candidate over it.
It doesn't affect how I view him politically as I already did not like his policies. Even if I did approve of his vision, he seems to just say whatever is convenient for him at the time anyway. Neither would I particularly use it as a political piece against him. My gripe is not that it's Trump who said it. (I'd be willing to believe that if someone said it ten years ago doesn't necessarily mean they talk like that now.) It's seeing Christians defending the talk, which I actually have seen.
Last edited: