I'm scratching my head on this one

[OldRegular]

Back to the OP - Calvinism and Arminianism are two very different descriptions of God and how salvation works - two different Gospels entirely - the models are totally incompatible.

I happen to believe that the Arminian one is right and is the one you find in the Bible. However it does not surprise me in the least that the Calvinist also admits that the two models are totally incompatible and that he/she would like to think that the bible supports Calvinism and not the Arminian position.

Think about that for a second - each side is saying that the bible does not support the other view - or in fact flatly condemns it.

Thus we must "expect" that the view of such a supposedly non-Bible sort of Gospel is going to be to condemn it as "not the Gospel" or some sort of thing like that.

I personally believe that both Calvinists and Arminians go to heaven if they are true Christians - but when they get there one group is going to be told that their Gospel was wrong - if they don't figure it out while here on earth "Sola scriptura".

in Christ,

Bob

Actually the Bible defines only one Gospel:

Romans 1:16, 17
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Reformed]

I direct this to my Calvinist brethren:

You all know that this board is not going to give a fair shake to Calvinists. There is a double-standard at work here. It is what it is. Continue to contend for the truth and do not let your opponents raise your blood pressure. Just consider the source. Engage with those who are worthy of debate. Don't answer a fool according to his folly. You will be amazed how useless debates die a quick, natural death when people of goodwill move on to more profitable discussions. Learn not to take it personal. I know it is hard to do, but you will be more at peace if you can learn to do it.

 

[DHK]

I direct this to my Calvinist brethren:

You all know that this board is not going to give a fair shake to Calvinists. There is a double-standard at work here. It is what it is. Continue to contend for the truth and do not let your opponents raise your blood pressure. Just consider the source. Engage with those who are worthy of debate. Don't answer a fool according to his folly. You will be amazed how useless debates die a quick, natural death when people of goodwill move on to more profitable discussions. Learn not to take it personal. I know it is hard to do, but you will be more at peace if you can learn to do it.

What brought this remark about?
You have an entire forum devoted to Calvinism here. Even with this forum there are still threads about Calvinism being posted in three other forums that I moderate. And you say you don't get a "fair shake"???
What is with this martyrdom complex, or perhaps "I am the one being persecuted here," attitude?
Fair shake? Really??

 

[Iconoclast]

I direct this to my Calvinist brethren:

You all know that this board is not going to give a fair shake to Calvinists. There is a double-standard at work here. It is what it is. Continue to contend for the truth and do not let your opponents raise your blood pressure. Just consider the source. Engage with those who are worthy of debate. Don't answer a fool according to his folly. You will be amazed how useless debates die a quick, natural death when people of goodwill move on to more profitable discussions. Learn not to take it personal. I know it is hard to do, but you will be more at peace if you can learn to do it.

Thanks for the helpful reminder Reformed. ....In time this board will improve as the error is exposed to light....it loses it's force when answered scripturally.:applause:

 

[Revmitchell]

Shame on you guys.

 

[Reformed]

...it loses it's force when answered scripturally.:applause:

And that is what our response should center on. It's not personal, even if it seems to be. Scripture rules. It is the final arbiter on this matter. But realize, that for many of our opponents, they are closer to embracing the truth then even they may believe. The last fight is always the hardest. I am reminded of what our Lord said to Saul, "It is hard to kick against the goads."

 

[Iconoclast]

Reformed

And that is what our response should center on. It's not personal, even if it seems to be.

yes 2tim 2 says they oppose themselves....

23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Truth comes by Divine enablement:thumbs::thumbs:

Scripture rules. It is the final arbiter on this matter

.

:applause: yes it does!

But realize, that for many of our opponents, they are closer to embracing the truth then even they may believe.

True...very true. I believe they have an almost irrational fear of this.If a person believed something not they way they should and help is offered,and they accept that help...it is not .....Shameful.....as some would think:thumbs:

Appolos did not think so;
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
28 For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.

The last fight is always the hardest. I am reminded of what our Lord said to Saul, "It is hard to kick against the goads."

Yes indeed.

Paul testified;

9 I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth.

10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities.

 

[Iconoclast]

Revmitchell

Shame on you guys.

Well I agree. they should not lie that is shameful, however many have been taught to actively resist these teachings.
Do not be hard on them RM. :thumbs::thumbs: Many resist and resist, and then they read a verse here or there,and when they try and actually offer up verses to attempt to resist... the verses becomes clear to them...almost as if they actually "see it" for the first time:thumbs:

 

[DHK]

Thanks for the helpful reminder Reformed. ....In time this board will improve as the error is exposed to light....it loses it's force when answered scripturally.:applause:

Really? Is Bob Ryan too tough on you. He is SDA. You do know that don't you?
Are you having a hard time when an SDA uses Scripture against you, and therefore take it out on the BB? He is a guest here and so are you.
You don't have to post in the non-Baptist section of the board. Go the Baptist only forums where you won't be scarred with the sword of an SDA. It might make you feel better. No need to take it out on the BB just because your having a hard time with an SDA.

 

[Yeshua1]

Really? Is Bob Ryan too tough on you. He is SDA. You do know that don't you?
Are you having a hard time when an SDA uses Scripture against you, and therefore take it out on the BB? He is a guest here and so are you.
You don't have to post in the non-Baptist section of the board. Go the Baptist only forums where you won't be scarred with the sword of an SDA. It might make you feel better. No need to take it out on the BB just because your having a hard time with an SDA.

We need to remember that both calvinism and Arninianism have degrees of biblical support for them, and while calvinism is the better approach for making sense of salvation message of the bible, there are many non cals the Lord has saved and uses to spread his message!

Also remember that SDA is a cult, and teaches "another gospel"

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Really?

I understand what Reformed has posted.I enjoy Reformed's posts as he seeks to advance many threads with good scriptural imput.

Is Bob Ryan too tough on you.

not at all. He follows a woman who thought she had a vision with the 4th commandment circled and those who do not hold it are taking the mark of the beast???.....that is another gospel of a different kind.

He is SDA. You do know that don't you?

yes I am aware of it....I have seen that denomination described in cult books as having a works salvation...I am hopeful that some of them might be saved from that error despite the churches teaching. I have a new neighbor who claims to be a member of that group and have already cautioned her about following any who go outside of scripture and invent the investigative judgement.

Are you having a hard time when an SDA uses Scripture against you, and therefore take it out on the BB?

not at all DHK.....what makes you suggest such a thing....Bob uses all scripture out of context....I asked him to explain himself. He has not quite been up to it yet....neither have you for that matter:thumbs:

He is a guest here and so are you.

Yes...and so was Lee Strobel for about 5 seconds until you chased him away.

You don't have to post in the non-Baptist section of the board.

people jump all around.

Go the Baptist only forums where you won't be scarred with the sword of an SDA.

no damage to me DHK, from them or you:thumbs:

It might make you feel better.

thanks for your sincere concern dhk..it might make you feel better to deal truthfully and honestly...each and everyday.

No need to take it out on the BB just because your having a hard time with an SDA.

Agreeing with Reformed or AA...does not suggest I am taking anything out on anybody???? I have no idea what you are posting about.

 

[DHK]

Agreeing with Reformed or AA...does not suggest I am taking anything out on anybody???? I have no idea what you are posting about.

You really have no idea what I am talking about?
If it so difficult for you to answer BobRyan and others down here that you have to result to comments like these:

In time this board will improve as the error is exposed to light

Then just go somewhere else (or at least another part of the board).
It is not the board that needs improvement, it is the people that post on it.

 

[DHK]

We need to remember that both calvinism and Arninianism have degrees of biblical support for them, and while calvinism is the better approach for making sense of salvation message of the bible, there are many non cals the Lord has saved and uses to spread his message!

Also remember that SDA is a cult, and teaches "another gospel"

You need to read some of John R. Rice's material and perhaps Moody.
They obviously knew how to present the gospel and present it well.
Both were mightily used of God and had nothing to do with Calvinism.

 

[Yeshua1]

You need to read some of John R. Rice's material and perhaps Moody.
They obviously knew how to present the gospel and present it well.
Both were mightily used of God and had nothing to do with Calvinism.

That is why I stated that God jas used both cals and non Cals in his work, as you can be saved and holding to the real Gospel being either Calvinistic or Arminian, but those holding to SDA are holding to another Gospel!

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

You really have no idea what I am talking about?

N0...I do not...

If it so difficult for you to answer BobRyan and others down here that you have to result to comments like these:

First of all my comment was directed to Reformed.
this comment;In time this board will improve as the error is exposed to light This statement is accurate....there is a reason error is error DHK.


In Bob Ryans case...his error has been exposed many times by many people.

He ignores all the solid answers, cuts and pastes his own errors over and over.
No one really buys his ideas.[maybe except for you?] He will not respond directly when challenged directly...sort of like Steaver...do we have to put out a missing persons report on him? instead of responding, they hide for a few days then repeat the error, again and again without advancing the discussion at all,

Then just go somewhere else (or at least another part of the board).

I wander around from time to time.

It is not the board that needs improvement, it is the people that post on it.

[/QUOTE]

Yes...professed Christians should not lie. Professed Christians should not bear false witness:wavey:

 

[DHK]

First of all my comment was directed to Reformed.
this comment;In time this board will improve as the error is exposed to light This statement is accurate....there is a reason error is error DHK.

1. Reformed posted a post that was quite unwarranted. I wasn't the only one that called him out. Another poster quite simply said: "Shame on you guys."

2. I know you won't consider it, but perhaps the error is on your part. Calvinists are not the only one that study the scriptures.

In Bob Ryans case...his error has been exposed many times by many people.

He ignores all the solid answers, cuts and pastes his own errors over and over.

This is true. I know that much better than any of you. I have been answering his posts for years before this Cal/Arm forum ever existed, as he is very active in the Other Christ. Den. forum. I know his beliefs well, and his method of debate. That doesn't make the board any worse or better. It doesn't give you a reason to slam the board, as it appears you have done.

No one really buys his ideas.[maybe except for you?] He will not respond directly when challenged directly

Then ignore him. If you don't want to put up with him ignore him.

...sort of like Steaver...do we have to put out a missing persons report on him? instead of responding, they hide for a few days then repeat the error, again and again without advancing the discussion at all,

Perhaps he is a busy man. Often he ends his posts by saying "I don't have time now, but I will get back to you." Have you considered that?
BTW, I more often than not, agree that Steaver is posting the truth compared to the error of Calvinism. Don't be so sure that you are right in your theology just because you wear the name tag of "Calvinist."

Yes...professed Christians should not lie. Professed Christians should not bear false witness:wavey:

Are you inferring that I lied.
This is the truth: It is not the board that needs improvement; it is the posters that post here. If you want evidence go to the threads that have been closed earlier than they had to be and ask yourself why?

 

[DHK]

That is why I stated that God jas used both cals and non Cals in his work, as you can be saved and holding to the real Gospel being either Calvinistic or Arminian, but those holding to SDA are holding to another Gospel!

Right, I can agree with that. :thumbs:

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

1. Reformed posted a post that was quite unwarranted.

I found his post a good reminder, and saw nothing at all to get worked up about.

I wasn't the only one that called him out. Another poster quite simply said: "Shame on you guys."

The other poster says that to every other cal post anyway, it is getting like the little boy who cried wolf. Eventually no one pays attention because he always does it.

2. I know you won't consider it, but perhaps the error is on your part. Calvinists are not the only one that study the scriptures

.

Nobody wants to be in error do they? Let me ask you a question DHK...when a JW tries to inflict error on you denying the trinity...do you consider what he says might be true?

This is true. I know that much better than any of you. I have been answering his posts for years before this Cal/Arm forum ever existed, as he is very active in the Other Christ. Den. forum. I know his beliefs well, and his method of debate.

That we agree on his M.O. is good. I have spoken to him openly about it.
He discounts it and yet cannot and will not respond.
All I can do is offer He can respond or not of his own..
SELF WILL.

That doesn't make the board any worse or better. It doesn't give you a reason to slam the board, as it appears you have done.

No one is slamming the board...we just want it to be fair and balanced.

Then ignore him. If you don't want to put up with him ignore him.

I do not ignore anyone as such. That reminds me of censorship.
I would rather interact with other posters however because he does not deal squarely.

Perhaps he is a busy man. Often he ends his posts by saying "I don't have time now, but I will get back to you." Have you considered that?

yes...but then when he posts several more times in the same thread, then that excuse does not hold water does it.

BTW, I more often than not, agree that Steaver is posting the truth compared to the error of Calvinism.

That is why I sometimes can lump you two confused puppies together:laugh:

Don't be so sure that you are right in your theology just because you wear the name tag of "Calvinist."

I am open to scriptural correction from any source. It must be scripture based however...Kyred, AA, Biblicist, Reformed ,Con 1, Tom Butler greek tim,thousand hills and several others , keep me on my toes:thumbs:

Are you inferring that I lied.

I have found that some of your posts when broken down,,,are lies, or a 9th commandment violations. I will say so whenever I see that take place.

This is the truth: It is not the board that needs improvement; it is the posters that post here. If you want evidence go to the threads that have been closed earlier than they had to be and ask yourself why?

Some threads deteriorate because some of the posters stop using scripture based answers.

 

[DHK]

Some threads deteriorate because some of the posters stop using scripture based answers.

That is not really true.
Most threads are closed because they degenerate into name-calling. A supposed spiritual topic turns into carnality by "carnal Christians."

Another reason some threads are closed is because they go too far off topic.
That may be a problem for this one. Consider the OP. Is anyone posting to the OP? Does anyone remember or even know what it is?

Here it is?

from post #89 of the Be Careful thread. Sounds like it's either Calvinism or Bust.:BangHead:

posted by Squire. BTW, in case no one cared to look up the content of Post #89 in the other thread, here is a link to it:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2172944&postcount=89

That is the topic, the original topic of this thread.

 

[BobRyan]

When the C/A board opened up there was a statement about holding to a higher level of discourse - in the revived version of C/A there has generally been a higher standard

... but ... at some points this is starting to look more like the other denominations thread area with some posts lacking substance.

We need to remember that both calvinism and Arninianism have degrees of biblical support for them, and while calvinism is the better approach for making sense of salvation message of the bible, there are many non cals the Lord has saved and uses to spread his message!

Also remember that SDA is a cult, and teaches "another gospel"

That is why I stated that God jas used both cals and non Cals in his work, as you can be saved and holding to the real Gospel being either Calvinistic or Arminian, but those holding to SDA are holding to another Gospel!