I'm too dogmatic!

[JonC]

"Lordship Salvation" is not a legalistic view (though there may be some that teach it thus).

And there is no question the Law not only convicted of sin when people were under the Law, it is still doing that.

It is the Word of God, after all. And it the closest that the natural man will get to knowing the will of God apart from the Ministry of the Comforter.


God bless.

I agree with you. My observation was that what he believes should be taught is not the same as what his church teaches and believes. He is trying to change them, and they are probably hoping that he will change to their view. He has basically condemned their view. No one here is surprised that they won't let him teach.

 

[Rolfe]

Why is an internal matter of a local church being discussed in public? Stinks like dirty laundry.

Evan, you should write a letter to the pastor. :laugh:

 

[Scarlett O.]

Evan... though your demeanor is probably not the noblest, you have been casting pearls before swine for long enough. Be a leader and take your family to a church where you can all serve. If your wife is so fundie-gung-ho, then remind her of submission. Or better, maybe it is time you start a house church that can grow into something more legitimate (lack of a better word).

There are a lot of couples who go to different churches. Ideally, it's not the best, but it happens more than people think and for some, works really well.

Why should he force his wife to "submit" to a church of HIS choice.

If he "reminds" her about submission, then she really isn't submitting. Submission is voluntary and isn't about doing what someone else tells you to do that you are opposed to.

Let them go to separate churches. He is miserable in this one and she loves it.

If they go to this church together or one of his persuasion together, then one of the marriage partners will always be miserable.

Being miserable isn't what submission is about - or at least it isn't what God wants it to be about.

 

[InTheLight]

You have to much pride to be a Calvinist. The swine in your free will church...

Well, he's got a ways to go to catch up to you!

 

[evangelist6589]

You say you are Calvinist, but you have much to learn. You have to much pride to be a Calvinist. The swine in your free will church are ready to rend you. If you knew scripture you would have expected it to happen sooner or later.

Oh go chase a rabbit

 

[evangelist6589]

You told us quite proudly in the past that you are intentionally confrontational. This attitude will not allow you to grow in grace and knowledge. Now, I agree with you about Osteen; he is a false teacher bringing a false gospel. I'm not familiar with the Jesus Calling thing, though.





And as we've discussed int he past, not everyone holds to Lordship Salvation. If the LS doctrine is not a part of your church's statement of faith then you shouldn't be teaching it. If your church is not Calvinistic, then you should not teach Calvinistic doctrine when you stand. You can teach the word without forcing your doctrine on the listener.





We know. Sometimes I fear you put more stock in the words of Ray Comfort, Kirk Cameron, John MacArthur, and Paul Washer than you do in the words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, and James.





You're already adopting a victim mentality. Also, you yourself have demonstrated a stout disapproval of non-Calvinists. I've noted before that you always seem to place Calvinists in higher regard than non-Cals, and you heap more praise on Calvinists than on non-Cals.



To respond facetiously: Why are you getting upset about non-Calvinists? Did not God predestine them not to be Calvinist? :smilewinkgrin:





More victimhood and paranoia. The Arminians are not out to get you, Evan. If there is disagreement in the church, it it probably because you are teaching a doctrine contrary to the stated doctrine and theology of the church proper. That falls on you; not the Arminians. If you are so enamored with Calvinism and Lordship Salvation that you feel you have to teach it somewhere, then find a church that believes the same way you do. Do not try to force a doctrine on your church that your church does not agree with. (And yeah, I know the background of why you are at your church...)





It's not that they cannot handle your convictions, Evan. It sounds like you are trying to force doctrine on your church that your church does not accept.

And that may be the problem. In my view LS is scripture and what the apostle clearly taught. I am not teaching Calvinism just scripture but not what they believe. So I need to back off.

 

[evangelist6589]

He doesn't share his church's soteriology, argues against their not teaching Lordship Salvation, and wants them to teach the Law convicting of sin (a position that they don't seem to hold). He would rather go to another church but his wife will not change churches.



I don't watch Soap Operas....except sometimes this one. :smilewinkgrin:

Bingo!!!!!

 

[evangelist6589]

He doesn't share his church's soteriology, argues against their not teaching Lordship Salvation, and wants them to teach the Law convicting of sin (a position that they don't seem to hold). He would rather go to another church but his wife will not change churches.



I don't watch Soap Operas....except sometimes this one. :smilewinkgrin:

Also I am only dogmatic because the views I hold are not what they believe. I could argue that the pastor is very dogmatic in areas of which I disagree.

 

[evangelist6589]

"Lordship Salvation" is not a legalistic view (though there may be some that teach it thus).



And there is no question the Law not only convicted of sin when people were under the Law, it is still doing that.



It is the Word of God, after all. And it the closest that the natural man will get to knowing the will of God apart from the Ministry of the Comforter.





God bless.

So you see I am in a church of which I disagree. So I am considered dogmatic. But I could argue the same about them in areas of which I disagree.

 

[evangelist6589]

Evan... though your demeanor is probably not the noblest, you have been casting pearls before swine for long enough. Be a leader and take your family to a church where you can all serve. If your wife is so fundie-gung-ho, then remind her of submission. Or better, maybe it is time you start a house church that can grow into something more legitimate (lack of a better word).

She won't leave the church no matter and I don't want to get a divorce over this.

 

[salzer mtn]

Oh go chase a rabbit

You say you are Calvinist but when a question is ask you, "Does Christ love outside of His Son ?" by Convicted 1, you have no clue what he is talking about. You need to find a church strong in the faith and submit yourself unto listing to the Gospel and never open your mouth again till you are grounded in the faith.

 

[Darrell C]

So you see I am in a church of which I disagree. So I am considered dogmatic. But I could argue the same about them in areas of which I disagree.

Not sure that is entirely healthy for you, but I trust you are being led of God, so conviction in that matter is left between you and Him.

In the meantime, don't worry about a place of leadership in the fellowship, simply carry on with the gifts you have been given, and God will give the increase. He will use you to impact this fellowship as He sees fit.


God bless.

 

[PreachTony]

And that may be the problem. In my view LS is scripture and what the apostle clearly taught. I am not teaching Calvinism just scripture but not what they believe. So I need to back off.

I don't doubt your zeal, even if I disagree sometimes with the way you go about your ministry. I mean no disrespect or insult in this, but you may want to step back and examine your teaching style. You say you don't teach Calvinism, yet I know form experience here that Calvinism enters discussions you are involved in quite frequently, whether intentional or not. It happens to all of us. I'm a firm proponent of free will, so I'll find it creeping into my teaching, even if I wasn't intending to go that route.

Your duty within the church is not to sow discord, which is something that teaching doctrines which are antithetical to the church's established statement of faith can most certainly accomplish.

So here's my advice: Take a deep breath and step back for a moment. Examine your teaching style and see if you can determine what caused the issue in the first place. Dial down any potential self-congratulatory or self-aggrandizing statements. If the Lord does any work through you, it is done for His glory, not yours, or mine, or any other fallible man. If the Lord leads you to another church, have a heartfelt discussion with your wife about it. God designed a system in which you, as the man of the house, ought to lead the house. Lead your house, but do so respectfully, and in reverence of God's holy command.

I'm not a fan of married couples attending different churches, personally. I believe there is too great a risk of differing doctrines, and therefore you can tread dangerously close to being unequally yoked. Also, if you have children, or are thinking of having children, going to differing churches can be very detrimental to a child's spiritual growth.

I hope you are not offended by that, Evan. I know we've disagreed quite vehemently in the past. But I'm offering you this advice in Godly love and respect. You obviously have a zeal for working for the Lord. Don't let your own ideas of doctrine and theology negatively impact the work He has called you to do.

 

[salzer mtn]

Paul told another group of people in Rom 10:2 they had a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. You can have all the zeal in the world but zeal without knowledge is zeal with ignorance, Rom 10:3.

 

[evangelist6589]

You say you are Calvinist but when a question is ask you, "Does Christ love outside of His Son ?" by Convicted 1, you have no clue what he is talking about. You need to find a church strong in the faith and submit yourself unto listing to the Gospel and never open your mouth again till you are grounded in the faith.

That's because he was not making any sense and needed to better explain!!!!

 

[salzer mtn]

That's because he was not making any sense and needed to better explain!!!!

It was a simple question that all grounded in the Gospel of grace could understand and answer.

 

[Darrell C]

Why should he force his wife to "submit" to a church of HIS choice.

Because "...he's da man!"


Just kidding.

It should be a decision both are comfortable with. Apparently he is okay with staying for her sake, which might be a reason...Adam ate of the tree, to share in his wife's fate out of love. A possible benefit is a ministry to his wife in dealing with what he might see as error, which may lead to her eventually agreeing with him. It may be his primary reason for being there is his wife, and that the Lord is using this to bring them to that state of oneness that is the result of a healthy marriage.

And that is just speculation.


God bless.

 

[quantumfaith]

And that's precisely the problem. You go into attack mode with this ongoing nonsense about rabbits.

People here have said it. Now your pastor says it. This kind of reaction will limit your usefulness in God's kingdom.

A great preacher once said, "I don't care who doesn't like what I say because of my positions, but I do care who doesn't like what I say because of my disposition."

Well said Tom, as an educator I am often reminded of sage words:

People do not care how much you know until they know how much you care.

 

[evangelist6589]

Not sure that is entirely healthy for you, but I trust you are being led of God, so conviction in that matter is left between you and Him.



In the meantime, don't worry about a place of leadership in the fellowship, simply carry on with the gifts you have been given, and God will give the increase. He will use you to impact this fellowship as He sees fit.





God bless.

Best post of this thread. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[evangelist6589]

Because "...he's da man!"





Just kidding.



It should be a decision both are comfortable with. Apparently he is okay with staying for her sake, which might be a reason...Adam ate of the tree, to share in his wife's fate out of love. A possible benefit is a ministry to his wife in dealing with what he might see as error, which may lead to her eventually agreeing with him. It may be his primary reason for being there is his wife, and that the Lord is using this to bring them to that state of oneness that is the result of a healthy marriage.



And that is just speculation.





God bless.

You are correct