Immortal Soul/Spirit Theology, Part Of The False Gospel, Practicers Of Necromancy

[percho]

Seems just when I need an answer the Lord sends it... I was reading The Treasury of David again this morning and ran across this tidbit... For those who believe what the scriptures teach... Enjoy... From Psalms 146:4... Brother Glen

1. Secondly, the spirit goeth free or inviolate in essence; death is not the end, but the outgoing of the soul, a transmigration or journey from one place to another. "It goeth forth"; so the character of our weakness we see in the issue; it is an argument of our eternity; for man indeed is perishing, but so is not his spirit. The phoenix goes forth or out of his ashes, "the spirit returneth to God who gave it" (Ec 12:7); that is, it abides still; and as in the body it pleased God to inclose the soul for a season, so it may as well exist elsewhere without it, if God will; for it hath no rise at all from the clay, yea, it bears in it immortality, an image of that breast whence it is breathed. The separate and very abstract acts of the spirit, even while it is in the body, the wondrous visions of the Lord to his prophets, usually when their bodies were bound up in sleep; Saint Paul's rapture when he knew not whether he was in the body or out of it; the admirable inventions and arts of men, manifest the soul's self consisting. Not Socrates, and Cato, and the civilised heathen only, but the very savages believe this, and so entertain death, ut exitum, non ut exitium, as a dissolution, not as a destruction: spiritus exit, "his spirit goeth forth." -- Thomas Williamson.

Verse 4. His breath goeth forth, etc. The Hebrew gives the idea not that the spirit, but the mortal part of man will return to the dust. "His soul (fem. xwr) goeth forth", i.e., returneth to God; "returneth he (masc. bf) to his earth." As in Ecclesiastes 12:7 : "He" is the mortal man of clay, but "his breath" (soul) is the real immortal man. --Simon de Muis.

Research.

breath in those verses is not soul (Hebrew, נֶפֶשׁ nephesh ) (Greek LXX, ψυχή).
breath is spirit, ( Hebrew, רוּחַ ruwach Greek LXX, πνεῦμα ).

V 2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. While I am living soul.
After the breath, Hebrew, רוּחַ ruwach Greek LXX, πνεῦμα went forth. he was no longer living, living soul, he was dead soul and his thoughts perished.

 

[One Baptism]

I know the parables in the scriptures echo truth... According to parable of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus, Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham, while the rich man was being tormented in hell... The rich man was cognizant of his suffering as Lazarus was of his comfort... As I understand scripture Lazarus had the ability to go and would have but there was a great gulf fixed, so that those on either side could not pass to the next... You wanted to know where the wicked go?... This parable gives you the answer!... Brother Glen...

Ok, so, in what you are saying/teaching, is the the righteous 'soul/spirit' [a conscious personality] "ascends" to God at the first death, and the wicked 'descend'? If I understood that right, what then do you think of the Patriarch David:

Acts 2:29 KJB - Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 KJB - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

This, after the Cross, even ...​

Acts 13:22 KJB - And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the [son] of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Acts 13:36 KJB - For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:​

I would like to know how you reconcile this.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Ok, so, in what you are saying/teaching, is the the righteous 'soul/spirit' [a conscious personality] "ascends" to God at the first death, and the wicked 'descend'? If I understood that right, what then do you think of the Patriarch David:

Acts 2:29 KJB - Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:34 KJB - For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

This, after the Cross, even ...​

Acts 13:22 KJB - And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the [son] of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Acts 13:36 KJB - For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:​

I would like to know how you reconcile this.

It is explainable very simply. Death is the separation of body and soul/spirit as I have explained to you. The body decays in the ground but the spirit goes to be with God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ has risen bodily and permanently from the dead. His body alone has seen no corruption. He has also ascended bodily into heaven.
David is not ascended bodily into the heavens. His body went into the ground and saw corruption like everyone else. But that does not mean that his soul is not even now with God awaiting the Last Day and the physical resurrection from the dead.

It appears that the unsaved dead, having risen to God are reserved under punishment for the day of judgement (2 Peter 2:9). The exact location of this 'remand centre'-- whether it is 'up' or 'down'-- I have no idea. The spirits of all the dead return to God at death (Ecclesiastes 12:7 again), but only the righteous remain with Him (2 Corinthians 5:8).

 

[tyndale1946]

It is explainable very simply. Death is the separation of body and soul/spirit as I have explained to you. The body decays in the ground but the spirit goes to be with God. Only the Lord Jesus Christ has risen bodily and permanently from the dead. His body alone has seen no corruption. He has also ascended bodily into heaven.
David is not ascended bodily into the heavens. His body went into the ground and saw corruption like everyone else. But that does not mean that his soul is not even now with God awaiting the Last Day and the physical resurrection from the dead.

It appears that the unsaved dead, having risen to God are reserved under punishment for the day of judgement (2 Peter 2:9). The exact location of this 'remand centre'-- whether it is 'up' or 'down'-- I have no idea. The spirits of all the dead return to God at death (Ecclesiastes 12:7 again), but only the righteous remain with Him (2 Corinthians 5:8).

Now that you brought that up Brother Martin I felt this article will fit in very nicely with the discussion... I know it will come up if it hasn't already... He was gathered unto his people!... Brother Glen

There are several different views commentators have taken to determine exactly what “gathered unto his people” meant in Genesis 25:8 (ESV) “Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.” There is not a great amount of differing views, or a lot of scriptural support to defend these positions. One view is that this phrase was nothing more than an alliteration for death. I disagree with this view simply for the lack of context and scriptural support. The author of Genesis—Moses—had no trouble using the word death or any version thereof during the whole book of Genesis. (Ref. Gen. 2:17; 5:5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, 27, 31) If Moses wanted this to mean nothing more than Abraham had died, he would have stated so.

Another interpretation is that it simply meant that Abraham was gathered to his ancestors or multiple people that were buried together, as was the practice of the Israelites and Canaanites.[1] I refute this interpretation for two reasons. First, as Warren Wiersbe states, “The phrase “gathered to his people” (Gen. 25:8) does not mean ‘buried with the family’; for Sarah’s body was the only one in the family tomb.”[2] Second, John Barry, co-author of the Faith-Life Study Bible, states, “This phrase is used only in the Pentateuc death, it does not indicate burial with ancestors—neither Abraham, Aaron, nor Moses was buried with their forefathers.”[3]

The last interpretation is that this is a reference to immortality. Several commentaries agree with this interpretation. Carl Friedrich Keil and Franz Delitzsch determine that “Abraham died at the good old age of 175, and was “gathered to his people.” This expression, which is synonymous with “going to his fathers” (Gen. 15:15), or “being gathered to his fathers” (Judg. 2:10), but is constantly distinguished from departing this life and being buried, denotes the reunion in Sheol with friends who have gone before, and therefore presupposes faith in the personal continuance of a man after death, as a presentiment which the promises of God had exalted in the case of the patriarchs into a firm assurance of faith (Heb. 11:13).”[4]

In conclusion, the most convincing interpretation is that when Abraham died he went home to be with his ancestors and friends who have gone on before. This is for several reasons; this interpretation has the scriptural truth to support it. If the word death were meant it would have simply stated that Abraham died. Instead, the writer wanted to make sure we understood that there is life after death in the Old Testament and Abraham was given that right due to his obedience and faithfulness. Lastly, nowhere else does it state where Abraham would have went when he died, many questions would certainly be asked about his whereabouts, and with the understanding of what Sheol is, this was the best phrase Moses could have used to tell us that Abraham is with his ancestors in heaven.

 

[One Baptism]

Now that you brought that up Brother Martin I felt this article will fit in very nicely with the discussion... I know it will come up if it hasn't already... He was gathered unto his people!... Brother Glen

There are several different views commentators ...

In conclusion, the most convincing interpretation is that when Abraham died he went home to be with his ancestors and friends who have gone on before. ... this was the best phrase Moses could have used to tell us that Abraham is with his ancestors in heaven.

The phrase, "... gathered to his people ..." [KJB], associated with Patriarchs (fathers of families, nations), does not mean taken to heaven immediately upon physical death (first death), for Moses himself did not believe that, one example being that he would not have pleaded so much with God to enter into worldly Canaan, the mere shadow of the Real Heavenly Canaan.

The phrase generally means that the people (family, nation, etc) came together, took up the deceased, and brought to the place of burial (a funeral train) and honoured by the family/nation, as on a bier (as paul bearers do), by the living people who 'survived' the deceased (see Genesis 25:8-10, 49:29-31; Deuteronomy 31:16, "sleep with thy fathers" (ie. in the dust, in the grave, the first death); 1 Kings 2:10 (see Acts 2:29, 13:36, "laid unto his fathers"; 2 Kings 22:20. "gathered into thy grave in peace"; 2 Chronicles 34:28, 35:24-25 KJB). Examples are Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, Joseph, David, etc.

In Aaron's case (Consider his case, see Numbers 20:26 KJB, being "gathered unto his people" and "shall die there"), he was to die in the presence of Moses, Eleazar (Aaron's son), God and the angels on the top of mount Hor, and would be mourned by the people (Numbers 20:26-29 KJB), yet be buried in the ground, to return to dust, as the father's and ancestors before him.

In a wider sense, as in Moses' unique instance, it means being laid to rest in death (first death) in the ground/earth/dust, as all the (in this instance, faithfully repentant) Fathers (since Adam) had gone before. For Moses, it was God Himself (Jesus) and the angels only which buried Moses in an unknown (to men) location (Deuteronomy 34:6, 5-8 KJB) on mount Abarim, Mt Nebo, the top of Pisgah (in the land of Moab; Numbers 27:12; Deuteronomy 32:49, 34:1 KJB) after he died (see Jude 1:9; Romans 5:14 KJB; for Jesus came back to resurrect Moses, and thus he (Moses) appears later in glorified form (with Elijah, who had been translated, both a type of the end) in the NT, standing in the promised land, see mount of transfiguration, and 2 Peter 1:16-21 KJB.). Yet, the people had gathered unto Moses, and knew he was to die, and when he had, and came not down from the mount, they mourned him for 30 days, as they had for Aaron (Numbers 20:29, 27:13; Deuteronomy 32:50, 34:8 KJB).

Being "gather[ed] ... to thy fathers", means to be laid in the grave, to go back into the earth/dust ("gather[ed] ... to thy grave in peace") where Adam, Abel, Methuselah, Noah, etc were buried, and returned, to all be awakened together in the resurrection to come, and taken to heaven together (all "gather[ed]" from the East, West, North & South - Isaiah 43:5-6; Matthew 24:31, etc. KJB).

 

[One Baptism]

... David is not ascended bodily into the heavens. His body went into the ground and saw corruption like everyone else. ...

The Bible [KJB] reads, [Peter the Apostle, speaking on the very Day of Pentecost, under the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, surrounded by the other 11 apostles, and the remaining of the 120 of the upper room, citing the OT, even the prophet king David)

Acts 2:29 KJB - "... freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us into this day."​

Your private translation/interpretation would have it read, instead (by implication):

"... freely speak unto you of the [body/flesh, not person/being of] patriarch David, that [the body/flesh, not person/being of David] is both dead and buried, and [the] sepulchre [of David's body/flesh, not person/being of] is with us into this day [while David, the spirit essence of non-corporeal ethereal existence enjoys the pleasures of Heaven and God's presence, Jesus along with resurrected Moses, resurrected first fruit martyrs, translated Elijah and Enoch, and the angelic hosts, while he awaits to be re-united with dirt, which is to be glorified, after he descends from bliss to cursed earth to unite with it."​

Brother, it doesn't say that in the English, the Koine Greek or any language you or I can think of. You are adding apriori belief into the text, and attempting to justify it circularly, in effect adding mental words which do not appear, even mentally taking away words which do appear.

Please, I am pleading with you brother, for God's word is clear about such practice and what will happen to those who do it.

Others are already resorting to statements from commentaries, Catholics, even perversions of scripture, such as the ESV (a Jesuit Bible). It is heartbreaking to watch. Please, you and they are in great danger and are not in safety. The enemy of souls is upon your track.

... It appears that the unsaved dead, having risen to God are reserved under punishment for the day of judgement (2 Peter 2:9). The exact location of this 'remand centre'-- whether it is 'up' or 'down'-- I have no idea. The spirits of all the dead return to God at death (Ecclesiastes 12:7 again), but only the righteous remain with Him (2 Corinthians 5:8).

You are sounding more and more like Roman Catholic theology in these pronouncements ...

... Please read Job 14, from where Paul quoted from, and also especially see Job 21:30 KJB, for where the wicked are "reserved", the grave, and in their resurrection shall be "brought forth" to face the execution of judgment.

2 Corinthians speaks of two bodies, the mortal (now) and the glorified immortal in the day of translation/resurrection, while the middle phase of "naked[ness]" is the grave, being unclothed, the symbol of death because sin, yet you would teach that the righteous are 'alive', being naked, unclothed in Heaven, What Shame! before our Father, His Son and the Holy angels (Revelation 3:18 KJB).

May you have yet mercy still, and the long suffering of God, that you may be granted repentance.

 

[utilyan]

It was just explained in the post you quoted in reply, and in every post from the OP onward.

I don't believe you for several reasons, but never-the-less there is opportunity for redemption.

No. [emphasis on the finality of the period] I have never said it, thought it, taught it or even implied such foolish thing as that.

Those who say we [SDA, wheat] teach such a wicked thing of the devil, and of sinful doubt, a blasphemous assault upon God's own just, holy, righteous amd loving character, are actually the unruly children of disobedience, and their reward will be sure, even double, and for every such seed of tare sown as the false winds of doctrine, will surely reap a greater whirlwind, a terrible storm of destruction shall be upon them.

Please for your own sake, get upon your knees, calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus, open your Bible, and turn to 1 Corinthians 15:35 and prayerfully, humbly read that and all the way to 1 Corinthians 15:35-58, see also Colossians 3:3-4.

Please brother, time of probation is almost up, and afterward it will be too late. Consider the lovely Jesus, read about His perfect character, His great sacrifice for you that you may be "transformed" even now, changed from "glory to glory". Think upon Him in Gethsemane bowed down to the earth with unfathomable weight, the weight of the sins of all the world, even your sins and my sins, which are too heavy for ourselves to bear. He was crushed, as the olive, that bleeds the colour red, upon the mount of olives, pressed down, He the source of Oil for you and I. Our Lord, suffering, agony of heart, bleeding, falling to the ground, dying ... So that you and I might have a another opportunity to live.

He is most precious to me, even as you are, for what He went through for you and I, how can I not love you, even as He did?

Thank you from defending me from your God's wrath. I on the other had would tell you that you don't have much to worry about from my God because he is a lot more understanding and kind then I can ever be.

So Stephen is not a clone. Ok.....

We would not be satisfied with you just betting we are right or being terrorized. Our God is Good.



Philippians 1

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

I think Paul is saying is if he dies he will DEPART and be with Christ. But he believes to REMAIN IN THE FLESH is more necessary for your sake.

I am probably reading it wrong, Will you explain this for me?


I am more likely to become Seventh day Adventist if SDA hospitals and the SDA church were to declare abortion murder.

Why do you support abortion?


Here is a LINK to official SDA website supporting abortion.
https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/abortion/


Here is an excerpt:
===
4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.

===

I love that first line:

"The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals" Has no problem doing that for what day you worship God, but backs off when it comes to MURDER.


Another excerpt:

1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be made in the context of a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of little moral consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed. Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
====

Question, when is a good serious reason to murder children?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Acts 2:29 KJB - "... freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us into this day."

Why do you think that this verse is any sort of problem to me? Like all Scripture, it is not to be read in total isolation, but in line with the various verses which I and others have laid before you so many times: Ecclesiastes 12:7; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23 (thanks, Utilyan, for reminding me of this one!); 2 Peter 2:9; Revelation 6:9. 2 Peter 1:13-14 chimes in with these verses very well. If you take each one on its own, you might be able to explain them away, but taken together, they provide a consistent testimony and explain how Acts 2:29 should be understood. David was dead and buried; his sepulchre was in Jerusalem at that time, but his spirit was with his Lord, which is surely the implication of Psalm 41:12; 49:15.

"... freely speak unto you of the [body/flesh, not person/being of] patriarch David, that [the body/flesh, not person/being of David] is both dead and buried, and [the] sepulchre [of David's body/flesh, not person/being of] is with us into this day [while David, the spirit essence of non-corporeal ethereal existence enjoys the pleasures of Heaven and God's presence, Jesus along with resurrected Moses, resurrected first fruit martyrs, translated Elijah and Enoch, and the angelic hosts, while he awaits to be re-united with dirt, which is to be glorified, after he descends from bliss to cursed earth to unite with it."

Humour is obviously not your strong suit. Don't give up the day job.

Brother, it doesn't say that in the English, the Koine Greek or any language you or I can think of.

Doesn't it? Golly! Just as well I didn't write it then, isn't it? Who wrote it? Well, actually, you did.

 

[utilyan]

Do you understand this is from the OFFICIAL SDA WEBSITE not some hate group:

" Though honest differences on the question of abortion exist among Seventh-day Adventists, the following represents an attempt to provide guidelines on a number of principles and issues."


Why do you support abortion the murder of children?


When thousands of denominations showed up to protest abortion, guess who didn't show up? Seventh-day Adventist, who's hospitals continue to murder children.

The COMMANDMENT is THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

You are a murdering right now recruiting others to join a MURDERING FAITH.

The official website says they allow abortion. The link is right there:

https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/abortion/


I dare you to ask seventh day Adventist hospital if they do abortions. You get paid to murder children.

You can GOOGLE this. YOU TUBE IT!. You will see Embarrassed SDA MEMBERS who are getting shut down by the general conference.

I don't have to LIE or make things up against you. All I got to do is ask you to research it yourself. To take one glance into this issue, I dare you.

Matthew 7

Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


You worry about no spirit or soul or existence apart from the body....... Why do you support the murder of abortion?

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus was resurrected and then ascended, before that, He was "in the tomb", even "where the Lord lay".

He was in the spirit preaching to those in Hades, he was alive, correct?

 

[One Baptism]

He was in the spirit preaching to those in Hades, he was alive, correct?

No, that is not correct. You are referring to 1 Peter 3:19 KJB. Would you like me to cover that text in its context? If yes, please read the following texts to prepare for the study: 1 Peter 3:1-22; Genesis 6:1-22, 7:1-24 (see also previous context and after in Genesis 8:1-22, 9:1-29); Job 22:15-17; Jude 1:14-15 KJB.

Let me know when you are ready ok?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, that is not correct. You are referring to 1 Peter 3:19 KJB. Would you like me to cover that text in its context? If yes, please read the following texts to prepare for the study: 1 Peter 3:1-22; Genesis 6:1-22, 7:1-24 (see also previous context and after in Genesis 8:1-22, 9:1-29); Job 22:15-17; Jude 1:14-15 KJB.

Let me know when you are ready ok?

Interesting that the Bible confirms that Jesus went to Hades and took back with Him when He arise those there waiting for Him, but you choose to avoid that and follow false prophetess views here instead!

 

[Walter]

Thank you from defending me from your God's wrath. I on the other had would tell you that you don't have much to worry about from my God because he is a lot more understanding and kind then I can ever be.



I am more likely to become Seventh day Adventist if SDA hospitals and the SDA church were to declare abortion murder.

Why do you support abortion?


Here is a LINK to official SDA website supporting abortion.
https://www.adventist.org/en/information/official-statements/guidelines/article/go/-/abortion/


Here is an excerpt:
===
4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.

===

I love that first line:

"The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals" Has no problem doing that for what day you worship God, but backs off when it comes to MURDER.


Another excerpt:

1) Prenatal human life is a magnificent gift of God. God's ideal for human beings affirms the sanctity of human life, in God's image, and requires respect for prenatal life. However, decisions about life must be made in the context of a fallen world. Abortion is never an action of little moral consequence. Thus prenatal life must not be thoughtlessly destroyed. Abortion should be performed only for the most serious reasons.
====

Question, when is a good serious reason to murder children?

Dr. Irving "Bud" Feldkamp III, member of the Azure Hills Seventh-day Adventist Church in Grand Terrace, California, is the owner of Family Planning Associates of California, which is the LARGEST ABORTION PROVIDER in the state of California.
Dr. Richard Fredericks says, "In Adventist Hospitals where abortions are performed the overwhelming percentage are elective..."
In 2005, George Reid, of the SDA Biblical Research Institute, reported to Teresa Beem that the SDA Church was "pro-choice" and Washington Adventist Hospital was becoming an "Abortion Mill". The Washington Times reported the SDA hospital performed 1,494 abortions between 1975 and 1982.

Now besides the fact that SDA support abortion. There's a couple of other things that disturb me also about this.

Like this:

SDA Church did not even permit abortions until 1970.
Everything changed in 1970 when an SDA hospital in Hawaii (Castle Memorial Hospital) began permitting abortions reportedly BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID OF LOSING PATIENTS WHO WOULD GO TTHER HOSPITALS TO GET ABORTIONS
They were afraid of losing patients (gold,filthy lucre) so they started performing abortions.....for the sake of money.
This also ties into the fact that they give free passes on sabbath , to sabbath breakers,and keep hospitals open, they say because of emergencies.

When in fact it's all smoke and mirrors and they are chasing filthy lucre.
They have no defense here. Their Adventists hospitals have become abortion mills and the SDA is no more a 'Bible Believing' church than the Mormans or JW's. Then SDA's come on here and falsely accuse us of 'necromancy'! Meanwhile they are condoning the MURDER of innocent babies! WOW!

 

[Bro. James]

The opulence of those who hang out at the Vatican might cause one to doubt some vows of poverty. Filthy lucre is a religious epidemic. How much is the Vatican art collection worth? There are some dioceses which are insolvent due to property having been sold to pay lawsuit settlements. Can a bishop just sell the property and keep the money?

See: "The Vatican Billions", Avro Manhattan. http/ bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/Vatican-billions.pdf

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[One Baptism]

Interesting that the Bible confirms that Jesus went to Hades and took back with Him when He arise those there waiting for Him, but you choose to avoid that and follow false prophetess views here instead!

Jesus "died" (1 Thessalonians 4:14 KJB, and was "buried" (1 Corinthians 15:4 KJB), "brought to the grave" (Job 31:32 KJB), placed in the "tomb" (Matthew 27:60 KJB), where He, Himself, "the Lord lay" (Matthew 28:6 KJB), to "remain in the tomb" (Job 31:32 KJB, until His glorious resurrection, "three days" later. Jesus went nowhere until resurrected.

The special group of martyrs ("saints") that were raised from their own tombs when Jesus arose, after witnessing in the city itself, were then taken to heaven as first fruits (Psalms 68:18; Ephesians 4:8-10; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 KJB), in Jesus' first ascension back to Heaven. Those "saints" were, before that moment, in their "graves", and had "slept" (Matthew 27:51-53 KJB). Those graves were opened that day Jesus died, and the earth shook. Yet, it was not till Jesus arose, that they "came out of" those opened graves/tombs/rocks rent/earth. They were all dead in the first (not second) death (sleep). They were not conscious/awake ("thoughts perish"; Psalms 146:4 KJB, "know not anything", Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 KJB) from the time of their death until their glorious resurrection.

The short (I have a much longer study, which I will post as time allows) study of 1 Peter 3:19 KJB (in context), reveals that Jesus died (vs 18), but afterwards ("three days"), was resurrected, "... quickened by the Spirit ..." (ie. made alive by the Holy Spirit, vs 18, in cooperation with Father and Son). Vs. 19, continues the thought, "By which also ...", being the reference back to the Holy Spirit, then speaks of "he" (Jesus), "went and preached", "unto the spirits in prison". When did Jesus, by the Holy Spirit preach to these, at the cross and death, or in the past days of the time of Noah? Vs. 20, answers the timing of this preaching by saying, "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Peter is referring to Genesis 6:3 KJB, when, in the days of Noah, while the ark was preparing, for those 120 years, the Holy Spirit was pleading with the persons in bondage to sin, to repent, board the ark and be saved. So Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, preached through Noah, the ark, and signs (see 2 Peter 2:5 KJB).

Who then were the "spirits in prison"?

Those living persons (whose hearts/minds/spirits) who were in bondage to sin, see Isaiah 58:6; Isaiah 42:7; Isaiah 61:1; Psalms 142:7; Psalms 79:11; Psalms 102:20; Acts 8:23; John 8:34 KJB

See also the prison and bondage of sin, and liberty (salvation from sin, in Christ Jesus):

Exodus 20:2; Deuteronomy 5:6, 6:12, 8:14, 13:10; Judges 6:8; Joshua 24:17;

Deuteronomy 13:5; Psalms 116:16. 142:7; Isaiah 42:7, 61:6; Luke 4:18, 13:16, 16:13; John 8:34; Acts 8:23; Romans 8:15; Ephesians 5:8; Hebrews 2:15; 2 Peter 2:19; Romans 6:16;

Psalms 119:45; John 8:33,34,35,38; Acts 26:18; Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:13; James 1:25, 2:12; 1 Peter 2:16,19 ... KJB

This is the short reply, the longer coming as time allows, which will also look at the broader context in the epistle of Peter in regards, death and the resurrection, see for instance 2 Peter 1:11 KJB.

 

[utilyan]

Matthew 10

28“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Philippians 1

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Desire to DEPART AND BE WITH CHRIST, its BETTER. Yet he will REMAIN ON IN THE FLESH for your sake.

 

[Adonia]

The opulence of those who hang out at the Vatican might cause one to doubt some vows of poverty. Filthy lucre is a religious epidemic. How much is the Vatican art collection worth? There are some dioceses which are insolvent due to property having been sold to pay lawsuit settlements. Can a bishop just sell the property and keep the money?

See: "The Vatican Billions", Avro Manhattan. http/ bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/Vatican-billions.pdf

Now what?

Bro. James

Hey, how about the palatial homes, the jewelry, the big cars, the $2000.00 suits, the plush offices and television studios of your gang? Sound's like the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" to me and all in the name of Jesus Christ the poor carpenter from Nazareth don't you know.

 

[Walter]

The opulence of those who hang out at the Vatican might cause one to doubt some vows of poverty. Filthy lucre is a religious epidemic. How much is the Vatican art collection worth? There are some dioceses which are insolvent due to property having been sold to pay lawsuit settlements. Can a bishop just sell the property and keep the money?

See: "The Vatican Billions", Avro Manhattan. http/ bibliotecapleyades.net/archivos_pdf/Vatican-billions.pdf

Now what?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

The Vatican art collection? Most of the art represents the work of Christians who wanted to place their talents at the service of God through the Church. The artwork is an example of their religiosity and is not for sale. Had the Church not preserved the art, much of it would have been destroyed through the ages. Such art is part of our heritage as Christians and indeed as human beings, and few people of any persuasion who appreciate such world culture would truly prefer that these treasures have been put into the control of secular commerce.

In Matthew 26:6 we read,

A woman came up to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive ointment, and she poured it on his head as he sat at table. But when the disciples saw it, they were indignant, saying, "Why this waste? For the ointment might have been sold for a large sum and given to the poor." But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, "Why do you trouble the woman? For she has done a beautiful thing to me. For you always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me.

Likewise, many of the great cathedrals of Europe were built with donations and labor from the poor, who wanted to build such monuments to God’s goodness and sovereignty. The Vatican does not control enormous liquid wealth, and its annual operating budget has been compared to that of a large archdiocese such as that of Chicago. BTW, Bro James, how much has your Baptist church done for the poor this year.
The Catholic Church is the LARGEST charitable organization in the world!

StopBaptistPredators.org

 

[Bro. James]

It appears the parishioners live in abject poverty, in South America, Central America, Philippines--ad infinitum. Whilst the Vatican Bank gets usury on billions. They are very reluctant to give real numbers. This was part of why Benedict went into self imposed exile--emeritus retirement. How many apostles retired? The barrel is rotten from top to bottom. Now what?

I guess what Jesus said to the rich young ruler does not apply. See: Luke 18:18-23. Vs. 22: "...yet thou lackest one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me."

If the Vatican sold all her possessions and gave the proceeds to the poor, there would be no poor.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Bro. James]

Hey, how about the palatial homes, the jewelry, the big cars, the $2000.00 suits, the plush offices and television studios of your gang? Sound's like the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" to me and all in the name of Jesus Christ the poor carpenter from Nazareth don't you know.

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Two wrongs do not make a right. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Where will you be in a million years? Are you sure?

Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Bro. James