In Perils Among False Brethren;

[Zaatar71]

Again, you refuse to answer my question. I'm serious. Why should I let you teach me?

If you have all this training, and you have not come to see these truths as of yet, is it possible there is something you missed?

(Because that is exactly what you are setting yourself up to be, my teacher, esp. in post #32.) I have had many good teachers in theology, most with PhDs. (I've taken 11 credits in sys. theo.)

Do you explain to those who have taught you that they use too many words?

But here you are, some random guy on the Baptist Board. I know nothing about you.

So please tell my I why should interact with you on Calvinism. How are you wiser than my teachers?

Do other people in various denominations have PHD's also?
Does a PhD's guarantee a knowledge of truth?
Does a Lutheran with a PhD guarantee truth in all matters of Doctrine?


Bart Ehrman has a PhD. He earned his Ph.D. degree in 1985 from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his dissertation was awarded magna cum laude
Did this PhD, help him?
Did it somehow qualify him? I found this online;
Bart Ehrman teaches error in the Bible by presenting a critical view of the traditional view of biblical inerrancy. He argues that the Bible, as it is now, is not without errors and that the original texts were not preserved without error. Ehrman's approach involves examining the textual variants and inconsistencies found in the biblical manuscripts, which he believes are evidence of the Bible's human authorship and the need for careful interpretation. He also critiques the concept of inspiration as a divine dictation, suggesting that it does not account for the textual variations and errors found in the Bible. Ehrman's teachings challenge the notion of the Bible as a perfect and error-free text, instead advocating for a more nuanced understanding of the biblical texts as human works with their own flaws and imperfections.

His academic credentials did not seem to prevent him from drifting off. I would suggest people get as much training as they can, for sure, but it is God who uses men to help each other.

Acts18:
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Did Priscilla and Aquila have PHD's ?
Are we saying that only people with PhD's can help each other?

I have been in several Churches, and do not meet many people who have a PhD, much less much training.

Your post has 1149 words, yet you still refuse to answer my completely valid question, which was suggested by your own words.

"In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise" (Prov. 10:19).

You say this to your Calvinist peers, also? Maybe I cannot help you but all I said was I would be willing to try if you were looking for help with it.

If I was able to help, would the help not be valid, because I do not have a PhD?
Could I only help if I encouraged PhD men to sign up on Baptistboard as they alone could help you or anyone else on here?
If a non PhD person offers on texts of scripture, do the texts of scripture mean less than if they are offered by a non lettered person?

 

[Zaatar71]

Folks, if we are talking about the Christian life, sure, there are many better Christians out there who can help me with that. If we are talking about strict Bible knowledge, I've known many Christians, both full time workers and regular Christians in the pew, who can teach me much.

Okay...I agree.

However, theology is a specialized subject, unknown to many in the pews. Others have only a superficial knowledge. That is why I get the "big bucks" for being a full time Bible/theology professor. It's not that I'm a better Christian, or have more out and out Bible knowledge. It is that I am fully trained, and continue to get training (working on another degree, reading lots), just like an electrician or a doctor continues to get more training to keep up with his profession.

I offered to another poster John Murray on these areas of teachings , thinking of His book Redemption, Accomplished , and Applied. The poster dismissed him out of hand. Who was John Murray?
John Murray has a PhD. He completed his PhD in Physics from Yale University and is currently an Associate Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College.
So let me ask you, you have academic qualifications as does Dr. John Murray . Could you offer correction to him on his book? Both of you are qualified by your standards. Could you perhaps show us how he is in error, using a few words? if using many words is what you are wondering about, could you discuss any portion of that book, and demonstrate how you have a superior understanding that John Murray does not have? Using few words. I will listen ,or rather read what you offer, and compare it to what he offers.

I've seen so much bad theology here on the BB! Haven't you?

Yes, there is good and bad on here, and in local churches. can it only be corrected with a PhD?

This includes in the Cal/Arm battles. I have two great friends who are Calvinist, both well educated.

Do they have PhD's?
How does your discussion go with them?
Where do you differ with them?
What area of the teaching becomes a sticking point?
Do you offer them help based on your studies?

Why then would I wish to be taught by a random person (perhaps a good Christian with great Bible knowledge) on the BB?

What if a random person can be used of God to help? It might be that I cannot help you, but during the interaction you could help me and others. Would that be beneficial?

 

[John of Japan]

If you have all this training, and you have not come to see these truths as of yet, is it possible there is something you missed?

Irrelevant.

Do you explain to those who have taught you that they use too many words?

Irrelevant.

Do other people in various denominations have PHD's also?
Does a PhD's guarantee a knowledge of truth?
Does a Lutheran with a PhD guarantee truth in all matters of Doctrine?

My profs were all good Baptists.

Bart Ehrman has a PhD. He earned his Ph.D. degree in 1985 from Princeton Theological Seminary, where his dissertation was awarded magna cum laude
Did this PhD, help him?
Did it somehow qualify him? I found this online;
Bart Ehrman teaches error in the Bible by presenting a critical view of the traditional view of biblical inerrancy. He argues that the Bible, as it is now, is not without errors and that the original texts were not preserved without error. Ehrman's approach involves examining the textual variants and inconsistencies found in the biblical manuscripts, which he believes are evidence of the Bible's human authorship and the need for careful interpretation. He also critiques the concept of inspiration as a divine dictation, suggesting that it does not account for the textual variations and errors found in the Bible. Ehrman's teachings challenge the notion of the Bible as a perfect and error-free text, instead advocating for a more nuanced understanding of the biblical texts as human works with their own flaws and imperfections.

His academic credentials did not seem to prevent him from drifting off. I would suggest people get as much training as they can, for sure, but it is God who uses men to help each other.

Acts18:
24 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.

25 This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.

26 And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

Do you actually think I would endorse Ehrman? You miss my entire point. My profs have all been good born again Baptists.

Did Priscilla and Aquila have PHD's ?
Are we saying that only people with PhD's can help each other?

I have been in several Churches, and do not meet many people who have a PhD, much less much training.

So?

You say this to your Calvinist peers, also? Maybe I cannot help you but all I said was I would be willing to try if you were looking for help with it.

And I keep asking, why would I let you "help" me? And you keep ignoring my question. Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently you think that since you are a Calvinist, that's all the qualifications you need to teach theology. Are you like these guys: "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm" (1 Tim. 1:7)?

If I was able to help, would the help not be valid, because I do not have a PhD?
Could I only help if I encouraged PhD men to sign up on Baptistboard as they alone could help you or anyone else on here?
If a non PhD person offers on texts of scripture, do the texts of scripture mean less than if they are offered by a non lettered person?

Again, you missed my entire point.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I offered to another poster John Murray on these areas of teachings , thinking of His book Redemption, Accomplished , and Applied. The poster dismissed him out of hand. Who was John Murray?
John Murray has a PhD. He completed his PhD in Physics from Yale University and is currently an Associate Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College.

Hi @Zaatar71,
I think you have the wrong John Murray. The guy who wrote Redemption Accomplished...... died in (I think) 1975.
But you are right about PhDs. Liberal churches are stuffed with PhDs. The two most famous and revered British preachers were Charles Spurgeon and Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Neither of them had any formal training. Spurgeon learned a lot from his grandfather, but Lloyd-Jones was brought up as a nominal Christian. Both these men were hugely used by God
So be encouraged, brother! Read 1 Cor. 1:25-31, take heart and keep studying. You and I may be the despised and lowly things in the eyes of PhD graduates, but God may still use us for His glory as He sees fit.

 

[John of Japan]

Okay...I agree.

I offered to another poster John Murray on these areas of teachings , thinking of His book Redemption, Accomplished , and Applied. The poster dismissed him out of hand. Who was John Murray?
John Murray has a PhD. He completed his PhD in Physics from Yale University and is currently an Associate Professor of Psychological and Brain Sciences at Dartmouth College.
So let me ask you, you have academic qualifications as does Dr. John Murray . Could you offer correction to him on his book? Both of you are qualified by your standards. Could you perhaps show us how he is in error, using a few words? if using many words is what you are wondering about, could you discuss any portion of that book, and demonstrate how you have a superior understanding that John Murray does not have? Using few words. I will listen ,or rather read what you offer, and compare it to what he offers.

A PhD in physics does not qualify Murray in any way to teach theology. If he were to submit his CV to teach Bible in any school I know, he would be told (metaphorically), "Don't call us, we'll call you." It's like this guy who is a successful lawyer, yet took it upon himself to edit and correct the Word of God: Cepher™ Bible | Millennium Edition | $95. So he made the dumb mistake of thinking the eth particle in Hebrew should have been translated when it is only a marker for the Hebrew direct object and untranslatable.

Yes, there is good and bad on here, and in local churches. can it only be corrected with a PhD?

Not just any PhD.

Do they have PhD's?
How does your discussion go with them?
Where do you differ with them?
What area of the teaching becomes a sticking point?
Do you offer them help based on your studies?

What if a random person can be used of God to help? It might be that I cannot help you, but during the interaction you could help me and others. Would that be beneficial?

This all depends on the subject, which currently is Calvinist theology.

 

[John of Japan]

Hi @Zaatar71,
I think you have the wrong John Murray. The guy who wrote Redemption Accomplished...... died in (I think) 1975.

Thanks.

But you are right about PhDs. Liberal churches are stuffed with PhDs.

This has no connection with my points.

The two most famous and revered British preachers were Charles Spurgeon and Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Neither of them had any formal training. Spurgeon learned a lot from his grandfather, but Lloyd-Jones was brought up as a nominal Christian. Both these men were hugely used by God

Spurgeon was not a theologian, and never claimed to be, though he was a great pastor and an awesome preacher, the "prince of preachers.". Jones was a greatly used pastor, but did he claim to be a theologian? (I've read some of his stuff, and been blessed, but I don't consider him a go to theologian.)

So be encouraged, brother! Read 1 Cor. 1:25-31, take heart and keep studying. You and I may be the despised and lowly things in the eyes of PhD graduates, but God may still use us for His glory as He sees fit.

Well, of course.

 

[Zaatar71]

Zaatar, Greetings to you brother. Hope and peace in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for that fine greeting.

Just my two cents regarding fault I find on both sides. On the one side I sometimes see a harsh scolding of Calvinism and anyone who holds to it. It reminds me of my father who was a former smoker. There is no critic of smoking worse than a former smoker. Likewise, there is sometimes no critic more motivated and harsh than a former Calvinist.

I would suggest the possibility that many of the claimed "former Calvinists" were no Calvinists at all. their words betray them.

Sometimes this approach clearly goes too far in my opinion. I often think, at what point does proselytizing become simply bickering and character assignation.

Sometimes those objections show the very area, where a person has missed truth and by looking with fresh eyes, or having someone go over the difference, truth can still be discovered. A Calvinist can learn many things from a non-Calvinist, because both can be Christians.
Because a label only describes an area of study a person is going to interact on, it does not guarantee he is competent or incompetent within the label. What if two Christians interact and one or both have what could be described as a proud spirit. Do you think in such a case that progress would be hindered, unless and until scripture could cut through their pride?

Calvinism, whether one wants to disagree with some of its formulations, is clearly Christian.

I agree. It is just a label that indicates what the general direction of that persons theology would come from. The basis of a confessional faith is openly puts on display what you should expect to hear taught among that group. There would be differnt levels of growth and maturity for usure.

Calvinism holds all of the core tenants of Christianity (the real core, meaning not all the second level stuff people want to say you also must agree with).

Yes, exactly as many have said. Charles Spurgeon , who did not have a PhD in the schools of men was greatly used of God, by opening up scripture and helping multitudes of Christians

On the flip side I often see from the Calvinist, but by no means the primary view, that if you don't believe all of the Calvinist tenants then you are an enemy of Christ.

What I see with that, and why I started a thread on it, is I see people who attempt to attack, more of the "label" and attack the people who are called "Calvinists" more than the core tenets of the teaching. Strawmen, and caricatures are erected and torn down, without interacting with the scriptures themselves. That is what I refer to as scripture does, as enemies of the Cross of Christ. If some denies the Trinity, PSA, Election, predestination, would we say they are friends of the gospel?
I have known many who had emotional objections and were wanting to attack the teaching, later confess that after years in ministry became convinced that they had missed one thing or another that later on enabled them to embrace the very teaching they at one time resited.

This harsh accusation from the Calvinist is made very often by Calvinists against an Arminian (whoever they throw this label upon) regarding the topic of faith and how it relates to salvation.

Yes, A Calvinist can also have a proud spirit, that hinders rather than helps those who need help. It is only grace that enables any of us to help each other. I have seen debates where Leighton Flowers who does not grasp Calvinism and in fact is an enemy of that teaching, was personally attacked by a few Calvinists who were graceless in what they offered him...I think the mans name was Sonny Hernandez?? It was embarrassing to watch, not because he did not present truth, but the way he went after poor Leighton was over the top ad hominem . This can be regrettable.

Just my thoughts

Peace to you brother

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

 

[Zaatar71]

Thanks.

This has no connection with my points.

Spurgeon was not a theologian, and never claimed to be, though he was a great pastor and an awesome preacher, the "prince of preachers.". Jones was a greatly used pastor, but did he claim to be a theologian? (I've read some of his stuff, and been blessed, but I don't consider him a go to theologian.)

Well, of course.

The John Murray I spoke of studied and taught here;John Murray (14 October 1898 – 8 May 1975) was a Scottish-born Calvinist theologian who taught at Princeton Seminary and then left to help found Westminster Theological Seminary, where he taught for many years. He was ordained in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church in 1937.he studied at the University of Glasgow. Following his acceptance as a theological student of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland he pursued further studies at Princeton Theological Seminary under J. Gresham Machen and Geerhardus Vos, but broke with the Free Presbyterian Church in 1930 over that Church's handling of a discipline case in the Chesley, Ontario congregation concerning the Lord's Day. He taught at Princeton for a year and then lectured in systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary to generations of students from 1930 to 1966, and was an early trustee of the Banner of Truth Trust. Besides the material in the four-volume Collected Writings, his primary published works are a commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (previously included in the New International Commentary on the New Testament series but now superseded by Douglas J. Moo's commentary), Redemption Accomplished and Applied, Principles of Conduct, The Imputation of Adam's Sin, Baptism, and Divorce.

 

[Zaatar71]

Hi @Zaatar71,
I think you have the wrong John Murray. The guy who wrote Redemption Accomplished...... died in (I think) 1975.

yes, he studied at the University of Glasgow. Following his acceptance as a theological student of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland he pursued further studies at Princeton Theological Seminary under J. Gresham Machen and Geerhardus Vos, but broke with the Free Presbyterian Church in 1930 over that Church's handling of a discipline case in the Chesley, Ontario congregation concerning the Lord's Day. He taught at Princeton for a year and then lectured in systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary to generations of students from 1930 to 1966, and was an early trustee of the Banner of Truth Trust. Besides the material in the four-volume Collected Writings, his primary published works are a commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (previously included in the New International Commentary on the New Testament series but now superseded by Douglas J. Moo's commentary), Redemption Accomplished and Applied, Principles of Conduct, The Imputation of Adam's Sin, Baptism, and Divorce.

But you are right about PhDs. Liberal churches are stuffed with PhDs. The two most famous and revered British preachers were Charles Spurgeon and Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Neither of them had any formal training. Spurgeon learned a lot from his grandfather, but Lloyd-Jones was brought up as a nominal Christian. Both these men were hugely used by God
So be encouraged, brother! Read 1 Cor. 1:25-31, take heart and keep studying. You and I may be the despised and lowly things in the eyes of PhD graduates, but God may still use us for His glory as He sees fit.

Thanks for your kind post.

 

[Zaatar71]

A PhD in physics does not qualify Murray in any way to teach theology. If he were to submit his CV to teach Bible in any school I know, he would be told (metaphorically), "Don't call us, we'll call you."

He was on staff and taught Systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary having studied with notable theologians, Hodge, Warfield, Vos O.T. Allis.

Professor John Murray, born shortly before the cusp of the 20th century in Scotland, was considered a leading Reformed theologian. He served in France in World War I and then pursued studies at the University of Glasgow and then Princeton Theological Seminary. He briefly taught at the latter school before teaching at Philadelphia’s Westminster Theological Seminary. He taught there through his retirement, also being ordained in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church. John Murray books include the Collected Writings of John Murray, a four-volume set that contains the best of his wisdom, along with a detailed account of his life; Redemption Accomplished and Applied, in which he distills information about the concepts of regeneration, justification, adoption, sanctification and glorification for Christians, and stresses the importance of union with Christ; and Free Offer of the Gospel, which shares how people who embrace Jesus will enjoy the marvelous gift of salvation.

It's like this guy who is a successful lawyer, yet took it upon himself to edit and correct the Word of God: Cepher™ Bible | Millennium Edition | $95. So he made the dumb mistake of thinking the eth particle in Hebrew should have been translated when it is only a marker for the Hebrew direct object and untranslatable.

Not just any PhD.

You make a good point about the lawyer, but Murray had training from Princeton during what is described as an unsettled period theologically

This all depends on the subject, which currently is Calvinist theology.

Have you read any of his works? They are solid. I have not seen any person refute his teaching on Redemption ,Accomplished, and Applied.

 

[John of Japan]

There seems to be a dismissal by the Calvinists on this thread of a good theological PhD. Do you guys have any idea what it takes to get a good PhD in Bible? My son has a BA, MA, MDiv and PhD in Bible, all from good nationally accredited schools. This took him a total of 13 years or more (I disremember exactly), and many, many 1000s of dollars. Can you imagine 13 years of full time training in the Word of God under good, godly Baptist profs (some of whom I've met--3 who are known worldwide)?

I admire my son greatly for this, and I am privileged to get to teach with him. I often defer to his knowledge and ask for advice. I think it's a shame that the Calvinists on this thread look down on a good Baptist PhD and its worth, and apparently think the average guy in the pew can do better.

 

[John of Japan]

He was on staff and taught Systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary having studied with notable theologians, Hodge, Warfield, Vos O.T. Allis.

Good scholars--I have Hodge's Systematic Theology and books by Warfield. But that's not who you originally referred to. That's a big error!

You make a good point about the lawyer, but Murray had training from Princeton during what is described as an unsettled period theologically

Sure.

Have you read any of his works? They are solid. I have not seen any person refute his teaching on Redemption ,Accomplished, and Applied.

I have read his book on the Holy Spirit. And I have no desire or need to refute his other books. That's not what I'm about. He was a respected scholar.

 

[Zaatar71]

There seems to be a dismissal by the Calvinists on this thread of a good theological PhD. Do you guys have any idea what it takes to get a good PhD in Bible? My son has a BA, MA, MDiv and PhD in Bible, all from good nationally accredited schools. This took him a total of 13 years or more (I disremember exactly), and many, many 1000s of dollars. Can you imagine 13 years of full time training in the Word of God under good, godly Baptist profs (some of whom I've met--3 who are known worldwide)?

I admire my son greatly for this, and I am privileged to get to teach with him. I often defer to his knowledge and ask for advice. I think it's a shame that the Calvinists on this thread look down on a good Baptist PhD and its worth, and apparently think the average guy in the pew can do better.

I am sure you are proud of your Son and how he can serve God as you have. No one looks down upon him, or you.
The thing is and the question I would ask is, with all that training, If Calvinism is the truth of God, and his training alone has not enabled him to see it, could there be more to it, than the training he has taken in?
With all his learning, what if those teaching him did not come to truth on these matters?
How could they teach him what they themselves did not know?
Is truth contingent upon whose PhD is stronger or weaker?
I had heard a sermon about the life of John Brown of Haddington that spoke of his backround;

John Brown of Haddington did not have a formal PhD degree. He was largely self-educated, acquiring knowledge of ancient languages such as Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, but he did not complete formal education in theology or academia.
I obtained a copy of his Systematic Theology and was stunned by what he packed in there. I am not sure of how many words he used, but it is saturated with scripture. Have you ever seen it, or read from it?
Here is a link to it from Monergism.com
https://www.monergism.com/thethresh... Systematic Theology of John - John Brown.pdf
I have never seen a more comprehensive work that is or can help many people on vital doctrines of our faith.
Would you say it cannot help multitudes of people learn?
You would certainly know more than me about what goes into getting a PhD for sure.
I am not trying to suggest or diminish such devoted studies. My main point is in the last few threads is, that Philip in Acts 8 did not have a PhD, but God used him to open up Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch.

 

[Zaatar71]

Good scholars--I have Hodge's Systematic Theology and books by Warfield. But that's not who you originally referred to. That's a big error!

Sure.

I have read his book on the Holy Spirit. And I have no desire or need to refute his other books. That's not what I'm about. He was a respected scholar.

I agree with much of what you say, but even as I list some of these men, several of them were not Baptists. I am sure they could blow me out of the water on several vital areas of theology, but even though I might not be as learned as they are, I believe God has allowed me to come to truth on believers baptism.
Do you see what I am getting at? I do not have to diminish what they have that can benefit Christians, but I can reserve the right to say, they might have missed something that led them to differ on this. I am not questioning their education, or Christian profession at all. I am just saying somewhere they went left, where they should have went right!
I provided a link on John Brown of Haddington's Systematic theology;

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/haddington/The%20Systematic%20Theology%20of%20John%20-%20John%20Brown.pdf

I find it very intense. I enjoy what he offers. I would ask anyone here to glance at chapter 3 is you open up the link;
CHAPTER 3: Of the Decrees and Purposes of God
I would like for anyone here to explain to me what he got wrong on this. I will open a thread, after all that is what we do on here, lol and take time to work through it. in fact with the amount of content he offers.
I do not have all the knowledge you have acquired, just by virtue of the fact of the time and dedication you have put in in serving the Lord. Let me know if you are familiar with this systematic theology. I am sure you are a busy person, but you might like what you see , and even recommend it to your students as a solid resource after looking it over.
P.S. If anyone reads this post, make sure to open that PDF file made available by Monergism .com. I will start a thread or series of threads on it.

 

[John of Japan]

I am sure you are proud of your Son and how he can serve God as you have. No one looks down upon him, or you.
The thing is and the question I would ask is, with all that training, If Calvinism is the truth of God, and his training alone has not enabled him to see it, could there be more to it, than the training he has taken in?
With all his learning, what if those teaching him did not come to truth on these matters?
How could they teach him what they themselves did not know?
Is truth contingent upon whose PhD is stronger or weaker?

He had profs both Calvinist and non-Calvinist. He came out non-Calvinist. You apparently think that makes one an apostate, judging by your OP, which you never explained to me though I asked you to.

Like I do, he has good friends who are Calvinists. I and he just don't argue about it with our friends. However, as do some Calvinists, you seem to have a need to make everyone else a Calvinist just like you.

When George Whitfield returned to England after ministering and becoming a Calvinist, he did his best to convince his close friend John Wesley, but failed, and in doing so killed the friendship. That's what doctrinaire Calvinism does. Fortunately the two were able to patch up their friendship years later.

I had heard a sermon about the life of John Brown of Haddington that spoke of his backround;

John Brown of Haddington did not have a formal PhD degree. He was largely self-educated, acquiring knowledge of ancient languages such as Hebrew, Greek, and Latin, but he did not complete formal education in theology or academia.
I obtained a copy of his Systematic Theology and was stunned by what he packed in there. I am not sure of how many words he used, but it is saturated with scripture. Have you ever seen it, or read from it?

Nope.

Here is a link to it from Monergism.com
https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/haddington/The Systematic Theology of John - John Brown.pdf
I have never seen a more comprehensive work that is or can help many people on vital doctrines of our faith.
Would you say it cannot help multitudes of people learn?
You would certainly know more than me about what goes into getting a PhD for sure.

Okay.

I am not trying to suggest or diminish such devoted studies. My main point is in the last few threads is, that Philip in Acts 8 did not have a PhD, but God used him to open up Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian Eunuch.

No one had PhDs back then.

 

[John of Japan]

I agree with much of what you say, but even as I list some of these men, several of them were not Baptists. I am sure they could blow me out of the water on several vital areas of theology, but even though I might not be as learned as they are, I believe God has allowed me to come to truth on believers baptism.
Do you see what I am getting at? I do not have to diminish what they have that can benefit Christians, but I can reserve the right to say, they might have missed something that led them to differ on this. I am not questioning their education, or Christian profession at all. I am just saying somewhere they went left, where they should have went right!
I provided a link on John Brown of Haddington's Systematic theology;

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/sdg/haddington/The%20Systematic%20Theology%20of%20John%20-%20John%20Brown.pdf

I checked it out. He clearly holds to covenant theology, which has no basis in Scripture. I much prefer Millard Erickson.

I find it very intense. I enjoy what he offers. I would ask anyone here to glance at chapter 3 is you open up the link;
CHAPTER 3: Of the Decrees and Purposes of God
I would like for anyone here to explain to me what he got wrong on this. I will open a thread, after all that is what we do on here, lol and take time to work through it. in fact with the amount of content he offers.
I do not have all the knowledge you have acquired, just by virtue of the fact of the time and dedication you have put in in serving the Lord. Let me know if you are familiar with this systematic theology. I am sure you are a busy person, but you might like what you see , and even recommend it to your students as a solid resource after looking it over.
P.S. If anyone reads this post, make sure to open that PDF file made available by Monergism .com. I will start a thread or series of threads on it.

I won't be participating. Still grading research papers from weeks ago, working on a book for kids, etc.

 

[Zaatar71]

He had profs both Calvinist and non-Calvinist. He came out non-Calvinist. You apparently think that makes one an apostate, judging by your OP, which you never explained to me though I asked you to.

Lol, No. I am not saying a non cal is automatically an apostate. I am certain that neither you or your Son would suggest that biblical Calvinists

Like I do, he has good friends who are Calvinists. I and he just don't argue about it with our friends.

I do not think there is a need to argue, but rather to clarify things.

However, as do some Calvinists, you seem to have a need to make everyone else a Calvinist just like you.

John, let ask you. When you are in a local church setting and trying to instruct rank and file believers, do you hesitate on other areas of teaching, for example, the trinity, or the resurrection, or believer's baptism? Or do you teach according to scripture in line with that local churches statement or Confession of faith? You do not second guess or equivocate on these other areas at all I would guess!
In the same way, a biblically studied person who understands Calvinism to be but a nickname for the truth of God expounded, is going to present it confidently with a view to edify the person he tries to help. Apart from the System labeled Calvinism take an area of study on the Attributes of God. There should be close to unanimous agreement on these qualities God has revealed about Himself by way of special revelation in scripture.

When George Whitfield returned to England after ministering and becoming a Calvinist, he did his best to convince his close friend John Wesley, but failed, and in doing so killed the friendship.

I am not so sure it has to come to that. I am not so sure it is the doctrines themselves that cause the disruption of friendship. I have noticed it is more a personal friction that happens more than the doctrine itself.

That's what doctrinaire Calvinism does. Fortunately the two were able to patch up their friendship years later.

I think they had a degree of respect that led them to reconnect. II agree that doctrinally there are times that CHS, stretched the teaching a bit, to try and urge and persuade those he ministered to, to seek the Lord. Both cals, and non cals can read and learn from his sermons, despite any degree of theological short coming he may have had. Truth is we all have missing pieces and that is why i suggest the value is sometimes found in repeated interactions. If time permits, I would like you to take a look at the Systematic theology and feel free to comment , question, what is presented. You have said that is how God uses you in teaching, so maybe we can continue to benefit from you and your Son helping us.
Does he participate here, or is he busy with other things? If he does not have time for that, ask him if he has written or e=reacted aginst the Confessional teaching, and could make that available to us?

Nope.

Okay.

No one had PhDs back then.

lol, that is what I am saying. I am glad for PhD people, and even technologic advances that can aid in promoting learning and teaching, you have a program that counted my words, lol... we are spoiled with web searches, and ebooks , there is no excuse not to make progress.

 

[Zaatar71]

I checked it out. He clearly holds to covenant theology, which has no basis in Scripture. I much prefer Millard Erickson.

No basis in scripture??? you are full of surprises JOJ,lol
I can understand your being busy, but This will take a while to lay out. By that time, I am sure many will attempt to dissect it.

 

[John of Japan]

Lol, No. I am not saying a non cal is automatically an apostate. I am certain that neither you or your Son would suggest that biblical Calvinists

You finally answer partially! Thank you.

I do not think there is a need to argue, but rather to clarify things.

John, let ask you. When you are in a local church setting and trying to instruct rank and file believers, do you hesitate on other areas of teaching, for example, the trinity, or the resurrection, or believer's baptism? Or do you teach according to scripture in line with that local churches statement or Confession of faith? You do not second guess or equivocate on these other areas at all I would guess!

I don't see what your point is here.

In the same way, a biblically studied person who understands Calvinism to be but a nickname for the truth of God expounded, is going to present it confidently with a view to edify the person he tries to help. Apart from the System labeled Calvinism take an area of study on the Attributes of God. There should be close to unanimous agreement on these qualities God has revealed about Himself by way of special revelation in scripture.

Your implication is that it is impossible to be a biblically studied person and not a Calvinist. I could not disagree more.

I am not so sure it has to come to that. I am not so sure it is the doctrines themselves that cause the disruption of friendship. I have noticed it is more a personal friction that happens more than the doctrine itself.

Read the biographies. It was the doctrine.

I think they had a degree of respect that led them to reconnect. II agree that doctrinally there are times that CHS, stretched the teaching a bit, to try and urge and persuade those he ministered to, to seek the Lord. Both cals, and non cals can read and learn from his sermons, despite any degree of theological short coming he may have had. Truth is we all have missing pieces and that is why i suggest the value is sometimes found in repeated interactions. If time permits, I would like you to take a look at the Systematic theology and feel free to comment , question, what is presented. You have said that is how God uses you in teaching, so maybe we can continue to benefit from you and your Son helping us.

We'll see.

Does he participate here, or is he busy with other things? If he does not have time for that, ask him if he has written or e=reacted aginst the Confessional teaching, and could make that available to us?

lol, that is what I am saying. I am glad for PhD people, and even technologic advances that can aid in promoting learning and teaching, you have a program that counted my words, lol... we are spoiled with web searches, and ebooks , there is no excuse not to make progress.

He does not participate here.

 

[John of Japan]

No basis in scripture??? you are full of surprises JOJ,lol

I can understand your being busy, but This will take a while to lay out. By that time, I am sure many will attempt to dissect it.

You've never heard of John MacArthur, Charles Ryrie, Millard Erickson (not a dispensationalist), etc. etc.? All would agree that covenant theology is not taught in Scripture. It is instead inferred to some degree.