. . . in sanctification of the Spirit . . . .

[3rdAngel]

You really cannot hear? Wow. Again, belief not yet believed is impossible without a change of one's mind first. You need to repent of your unbiblical idea of repentance. You need to change your mind about your unbiblical idea one has to believe before one can change one's mind.

My friend, you have only been provided God's Word which are not my words but God's and you do not believe them. In response you provide your own words so your argument is with God not me. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. Ignoring God's Word does not make them dissappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

Not to throw a wrench into things, notice the order now:

" Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:37-38 ).

Belief ( pricked in their heart, what I like to call "conviction" ), followed by repentance and baptism.

Yep! It is not rocket science. Not sure why the others think you can have repentance without God's Word or a knowledge of the truth. If there is no Word there is no faith and if there is not faith there is no repentance *ACTS 17:30; EPHESIANS 1:13; ROMANS 10:17.

 

[mailmandan]

Not to throw a wrench into things, notice the order now:

"Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts of the Apostles 2:37-38 ).

Belief ( pricked in their heart, what I like to call "conviction" ), followed by repentance and baptism.

In Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him, but that is not saving belief yet. They still lacked trust and reliance in Jesus Christ alone for salvation which explains why they still needed to repent and place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Repent (change of mind) -- new direction of this change of mind -- faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation.

These Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18. Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable in obtaining salvation. (Acts 20:21)

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[3rdAngel]

In Acts 2:37, their "belief" at this point was "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and they were guilty of crucifying Him, but that is not saving belief yet.

Your contradicting yourself and here is your error. According to your own words they had a belief of the truth to begin with. Can't have repentance without a knowledge of the truth *ACTS 17:30; EPHESIANS 1:13; ROMANS 10:17.

Hope this helps

 

[Dave G]

Can't have repentance without a knowledge of the truth *ACTS 17:30; EPHESIANS 1:13; ROMANS 10:17.

Of that we agree.

 

[mailmandan]

Of that we agree.

Who would ever teach that someone would repent without a knowledge of the truth? Repent out of thin air? Not me. These Jews in Acts 2:38 who were told to repent were not without a knowledge of the truth from Peter in Acts 2:22-37, which resulted in them being cut to the heart and believing that they were guilty of crucifying the Messiah, which is not saving belief yet, but in verse 40, we read that with many other words Peter testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation, which ultimately led to the change of mind (repentance) that resulted in believing in Jesus Christ unto salvation.

Later, in Acts 10:43, we hear the apostle Peter clearly state that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. In Acts 11:17, we read that God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, (also see Acts 16:31) who was I that I could withstand God?” In verse 18 we see that this is referred to as repentance unto life. In Acts 15:8, we read - So God, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

So for someone to say that they truly repented, but do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/have not placed their faith in Christ for salvation is an OXYMORON. Also, for someone to say that they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ/have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation but have never repented is also an OXYMORON.

 

[37818]

To the Jews, I agree.

The reason I say that is, before the cross the Jews were presented with the Gospel by Jesus Christ and were obligated under the Law of Moses to obey the commands of God.
The commandment to God's chosen earthly nation by the very One who gave them the Law, was...repent and believe.

Two different things that the Lord gave them while He was standing right in front of them.
Does the order matter?
I don't think so.

I think that he was commanding them to do two things, and it didn't matter the order.


Not to throw a wrench into things, notice the order now:

" Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." ( Acts of the Apostles 2:37-38 ).

Belief ( pricked in their heart, what I like to call "conviction" ), followed by repentance and baptism.

A number of things regarding Acts of the Apostles 2:38. ". . . Then Peter said unto them, "Change your mind [plural] and be baptized [singular] evey one of you . . . ." When either term [repent or believe] is used by itself, it never excludes the other. Compare Mark 16:16, ". . . believe and be baptized . . . ." refering to that person doing both to be saved. [Yet baptism was not being set as a requirement.] ". . . but he that believeth not shall be damned. . . ." The term for repentance not being used and baptism not being set as a requirement.

Again, where both terms are used, repentance aways precedes faith.
Mark 1:15, ". . . repent ye and believe . . . ."
Acts of the Apostles 20:21, ". . . repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
Hebrews 6:1, ". . . the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, . . ."

 

[37818]

Your contradicting yourself and here is your error. According to your own words they had a belief of the truth to begin with. Can't have repentance without a knowledge of the truth *ACTS 17:30; EPHESIANS 1:13; ROMANS 10:17.

Hope this helps

". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." -- John 17:17.
". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." -- 2 Timothy 2:25.

God's truth.
Sanctification.
Repentance (a changed mind).
Faith.

 

[37818]

. . . you do not believe them. . . .

More false accusations. You seem not able to hear what you do not agree with. Don't just rant, give a careful explanation, step by step.

The term translated "repent, repentance" means to "change one's mind." Whether it is in regards to sin (Luke 5:32) or believing God's truth (2 Timothy 2:25).

What ever the truth is one must be open to believe it.

 

[Van]

". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and . . . ." -- 1 Peter 1:2.

We agree, we were elected according to the foreknowledge of God, meaning He formulated His redemption plan before the foundation of the world, and then carried out His plan during our lifetime including our individual election for salvation through faith in the truth.

This is the only view that is supported by all scripture.

 

[37818]

. . . the only view that is supported by all scripture.

One would think so. But it is not the case. The points of disagreement need to be identified. What, when, how and why of each point, step by step. Else everyone argues past each other without any clear understandings of the disagreements.

 

[3rdAngel]

Who would ever teach that someone would repent without a knowledge of the truth? Repent out of thin air? Not me..

Hmmm? You did! Here is the conversation below...

The scriptures are fine it is your interpretation of them that is in error. Here is why...

SALVATION AND RECEIVING GOD'S SPIRIT IS CONDITIONAL ON...

1. GOD'S WORD. If we do not have God's Word or do not know God's Word we cannot have faith in God's Word *ROMANS 10:17; JOHN 17:17; JOHN 6:63; JOHN 1:1-14;

2. FAITH *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's Word *2 PETER 1:4, (believing God's Word); JOHN 3:15-21

3. REPENTANCE *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13 (changing your mind to follow Gods Word)

4. CONFESSION *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13 OF SIN *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4

5. BE BORN AGAIN (by faith in God's Word) *JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10 TO FOLLOW GOD'S WORD. Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4. This is habbitual sin. Anyone who accasionally sins has an advocate with the father.

..............

All of the above are conditions for receiving God's gift of salvation and God's Spirit through faith *EPHESIANS 2:8-9.

If we have no faith we have no salvation because whatsoever is not of faith is sin *ROMANS 14:23. Repentance of SIN is one of the conditions for receiving God's Spirit *ACTS 2:38.

If we have no repentance as have no salvation because the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23

If we do not confess our sins we have no salvation because confession is a condition of forgiveness *1 JOHN 1:9

If we are not born again to believe and follow God's Word we have no salvation because we cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven *JOHN 3:3-8.

Only those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD receive God's Spirit. The teaching of "Once Saved Always Saved" is a false Gospel that has it's origin from the father of lies first proclaimed in the garden of Eden to Eve stating you can break God's commandments and not surely die *GENESIS 3:1-5.

The scriptures you have provided are to those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's Word and are not the problem. Your interpretation of what these scriptures however are in error. Only sent in love and as a help to you.

All of God's Word and God's promises are conditional on believing and following them. Those who do not believe and do not follow are not God's Sheep (elect).

God's Sheep (elect) hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *JOHN 10:1-10; JOHN 10:26-27.

God bless

Response by 37818....

Faith followed by repentance is a cult teaching.

Your support for 37818's post above...

Winner x 1 mailmandan

Your responding post...

Amen! .......
Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - ..repent ye, and believe the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

Here you clearly support your friends false teaching that you can have repentance before God's Word and faith. Glad you changed your mind though.

 

[3rdAngel]

". . . Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. . . ." -- John 17:17.
". . . if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; . . ." -- 2 Timothy 2:25.

God's truth.
Sanctification.
Repentance (a changed mind).
Faith.

Well, at least the scriptures are correct and you have changed your order a little. The scriptures you have provided however do not say that we have sanctification and repentance before we believe God's Word (faith). Sanctification and repentance comes by believing God's Word *ROMANS 10:17. This is a false teaching that you and Mailmandan are promoting. We are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH *EPHESIANS 2:8 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *ROMANS 14:23; He that BELIEVES NOT is condemned because he has not believed *JOHN 3:18. How can you have sanctification and repentance if you do not believe God's Word? Yep this is a false teaching the two of you are promoting.

 

[3rdAngel]

More false accusations. You seem not able to hear what you do not agree with. Don't just rant, give a careful explanation, step by step.

The term translated "repent, repentance" means to "change one's mind." Whether it is in regards to sin (Luke 5:32) or believing God's truth (2 Timothy 2:25).

What ever the truth is one must be open to believe it.

There was no false accusation. You were indeed provided scripture to show that God's Word comes before faith from the post provided and sent you earlier that showed that we need God's Word and we need to have a knowledge of it and believe it before we can have repentance. No one is arguing what the meaning of repentance is so this is simply a strawman distraction.

These were the scriptures provides to you earlier that you choose to ignore...

This is why it is written...

ACTS 17:30 IN TIMES OF IGNORANCE (when we do not know) GOD WINKS AT, BUT NOW (when a knowledge of the truth is come) CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT.

EPHESIANS 1:13 In whom you also trusted, AFTER THAT YOU HEARD THE WORD OF TRUTH, the gospel of your salvation: IN WHOM AFTER THAT YOU BELIEVED, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

We need to have a KNOWLEDGE of the Word of God BEFORE we can REPENT. If there is no KNOWLEDGE of God's WORD there can be no faith and if there is no faith there can be no repentance..

ROMANS 10:17 FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.

This post is only sent in love and as a help to you. My prayer is that you may receive it in the Spirit it was given (love)

Hope this helps

 

[37818]

Well, at least the scriptures are correct and you have changed your order a little.

Did not change the order.

 

[37818]

. . . God's Word comes before faith

Are you blind? See OP.

 

[3rdAngel]

Did not change the order.

Your original post here...

The order of things in salvation.
Election
The Call
Sanctification
Repentance
Faith
Regneration.

Your recent post here...

God's truth.
Sanctification.
Repentance (a changed mind).
Faith.

I only said a little..

God bless

 

[3rdAngel]

Are you blind? See OP.

Nope, I read your OP and it is wrong. Faith comes by hearing and heaing by the Word of God *ROMANS 10:17. If you have no Word how can you have Faith when Faith comes by the Word? You cannot.

 

[37818]

@3rdAngel
The Call <by way of> God's truth.
How else?
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

 

[3rdAngel]

@3rdAngel
The Call <by way of> God's truth.
How else?
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14.

The call comes after the Word *ROMANS 10:17 although God can draw us through his Spirit to the Word.