Featured In which "Millennial Camp" was ....

There were many scripture that prophesied of Christ. But they were prophetic. Philip was able to use the OT (the Book of Isaiah) to lead the Ethiopian to Christ, because "they spoke of Christ."

But now:
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God no longer speaks to us through the prophets, He speaks to us through His Son, revealed to us in the NT scripture, which give us a far clearer picture of what he has done and why.

Paul gave an allegory, or a picture using himself:
Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

In the early church they did not have NT revelation. They had just the OT scriptures and some of the spiritual gifts such as prophecy to help them along. Thus Paul says "he understood as a child," immaturely, concerning knowledge, the knowledge of only the OT, and now with some revelatory gifts he sees only as looking through a mirror darkly.
The Corinthians were known for "brass mirrors." They gave an image but not a very good one. Paul was looking forward to the day when the NT would be complete "when that which is perfect (complete) is come. Then he would see himself as he is--as the full revelation would reflect him to be. That is what the gospel does. It shows us who we are compared to Christ. He didn't live to see that day, but that is what he was living for as expressed in that passage.

James one also refers to the "law of liberty" as a mirror reflecting back our image to us.

Salvation comes through the gospel of Jesus Christ. Without that gospel one cannot be saved.

 

Oh...that makes it clear....if you read the words on the internet.......it is not the same as reading a book:laugh::laugh:

Of course:laugh: It is much different:thumbsup:

So...you do not have to answer to the clear contradictions that you said I was just assuming were true, when you have quoted the people I said you did.

Nice try.....

 

You are a "hard" man Aaron but Scofield's notes are an abomination and have led many gullible and Biblically illiterate Christians astray.

There is nothing in Scripture that justifies the dispensationalism of Darby, Scofield, Ryrie, etc. yet sadly some unfortunate souls treat the teaching of these people as Roman Catholics hang on every word of the Roman pontiff and in a similar manner they deny that they do!

I have said many times that I support Israel, not because they are still or ever will be the elect of GOD, but because they are the only democracy in the Middle East and are a thorn in the side of Islam which I hate. Unfortunately the dispensational doctrine has influenced US policy towards Israel.

 

Scripture worth reading by some:

Galatians 3:6-9
6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

You really are naive and foolish. When dispensationalism started to become a popular topic then I looked to my Bible first and used other references just as I would with any other topic. To this day I have never read a book on dispensationalism all the way through. In fact, I might not even own one.

Again, have you heard of the internet?
I quote passages from these people from their commentaries, their sermons, their articles, etc, most of which I am able to find on-line. Why do you presume I have either studied under them or read their books. Do you really think I went and graduated from MacArthur's College? Fat chance of that! And no I have never listened to any of his sermons. I have told you before--I don't have time to listen to sermons on the internet. You don't seem to get that. Unlike you, I am not a truck driver spending hours of time driving down hi-ways with plenty of time to spend listening to sermons. I do have other work to do.

Asked and answered?
Have you never used the "net"?



They are well known...are you saying you have never seen a Scofield bible or heard someone teach from it? I could look at your bookshelf and not see a premillennial book ...is that your claim?

It has been well over 40 years since I have been saved. I have picked up many things on the way. Any material I have picked up on the way is irrelevant to what I initially learned. I learned the basics of dispensationalism after I graduated from college, not before and not during. Your refusal to believe me is as good as unbelief or calling me a liar.

I learned about dispensationalism primarily through the Bible. As with any subject I was free to consult other material. You don't believe me. That is as good as lying. It is unbelief.

Since neither of those terms are found in any bible....you must be a prodigy!
you know these terms which are not in scripture...have over 2000 books and none of them are premill dispensational at all....really!

Icon, you keep bearing false witness; you don't believe me. You keep lying. Stop it. Take my word for what it is.

You have continued to pile up accusations on this post--needless attacks.
Your unbelief in testimony of a brother is astonishing.

Anyone can read your previous post. I hope the other moderators do.

Who is the "us"? Do you have a conspiracy going? I was debating you, only you. You were the one with the ad. homs.

No, it means I know how to use a search engine. Do you really think I am going to type out lengthy passages by hand??

Just for you I looked it up. I was not taught either dispensational theology nor covenantal theology in college. We were taught both systematic and biblical theology. That is Bible teaching, Icon. I learned about systematic theology on my own afterward. 40 years ago is a long time to remember all the exact courses.

A current website would give you what I believe now, not what I studied then. In 40 plus years I have grown and learned much.

The OP is about millennialism, something of which I have addressed many times.
The OP is about millennialism, something which you don't believe in at all.

The OP says:

That has been asked and answered. I have not read one post of yours on a direct answer to that question either, so you are simply playing the hypocrite.
Since that question has been resolved the thread is more about the millennial kingdom, which I have kept my remarks to. You don't even believe in a millennial kingdom. You are the one out of order, being amil.

I speak the truth. It would be good when you stop with the insults.

It seems you don't know what the topic is. I have not read a single post of yours addressing the OP. So what is the topic, Icon? Do you have an imaginary one?

You won't know my dispensational view unless you are able to hold an intellectual debate with me actually listening to what I say, not assuming that I agree with all your authorities which you assume I have read.

The mystery: Study the scriptures.
The OP: asked and answered.

 

Amen. Excellent response.


God bless.

 

The Lord answered Moses, “Go out in front of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the Lord saying, “Is the Lord among us or not?”[Ex. 17:5-7]


Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the tent of meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the Lord appeared to them. The Lord said to Moses, “Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.” So Moses took the staff from the Lord’s presence, just as he commanded him. He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.[Num. 20:6-11]


For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.[1 Cor. 10:1-4]


Christ was just as much their God then as He is ours now.

 

I bet in real life he's got a heart as big as a suitcase.

 

Nope, monsieur. He's a Calvinist and his heart is as hard as a four day old doughnut. I know, I am one, and I would be pegged thusly as well. :tear:

 

Yes, but they did the OT saints know Jehovah as Christ?
Did they have a personal relationship with him?
Were they indwelt with the Holy Spirit? Was regeneration applicable to them?

Not even Nicodemus living in the time of Christ understood either regeneration or the new birth. How would you expect Abraham who had far less revelation than Nicodemus to understand?

The plight of denying dispensations is denying how God works in different times with different peoples even as Hebrews 1:1,2 teaches us.

Throughout the OT they brought animal sacrifices. Blood was shed. All was done in figure, as a picture of the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world," as John declared.

Even when John the Baptist declared the above statement in John 1:29, his own disciples did not comprehend how that man that he was pointing to, Jesus the carpenter, was "The Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." How then, could the OT saints expect to believe that Jehovah was Jesus? And how could one expect them to understand the truths of the glorious gospel? Impossible.

The Ethiopian eunuch needed someone to explain the scriptures to him.
So did the OT saints. But they had none. They didn't live after the time of Christ.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 

They were looking forwards toward the Messiah, Christ. We look back to the same Messiah, Christ, monsieur.

 

Abram talked directly with God, Nicodemus did not.

 

God has dealt with His creation the same, as He changes not, as He is the same yesterday, today, and yea, forever.

 

Yes. God slayed an animal and made Adam and Eve coats of skin as a covering for their nakedness, which was an example of the work the coming Messiah would do.

 

Again, they were looking towards the cross, towards their Messiah that was to come. As Moses stated The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.” The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.[Deut. 18:15-18]

 

They had leaders like Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Caleb, David, Solomon, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, et al, who all prophesied of the Messiah to come. Isaiah even stated For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.[Isa. 9:6,7]

Wonderful verse. Abraham and his seed, which is Christ, all received those promises as soon as they took their last breath and were received into glory.

 

DHK

You posted this on this post;

and then it seemed strange that you start by saying this to me--

.

:laugh:

That's fine...but it is not the bible alone as my questions were getting at:thumbs:

Well now the story has changed so many times now...really!

Back to this again?

So other sources have been used as I also said.:thumbsup:

Everyone learns from somebody that's why. Even Darby and these other men took bits and pieces from others than came up with their theory.

I agree...you would not have passed those classes.

.

I can sort of believe this based on your posting. I do not think you have listened to many good teachers that are available....you say you do not need them.:wavey:

Sermons can be listened to in the car, and even when you sit at your keyboard. I listen to many a sermon that way. You can make time for good teaching if you want to.

Not really...I do not get that.

.

That is one great benefit I do have and take full advantage of it. many people would like to have the time to hear as many sermons as I get to work through....

Everyone has work to do.

Most questions that were asked were not really answered.

sure...so do you....if you read it online or in a book...you read it....no real difference.


They are well known...are you saying you have never seen a Scofield bible or heard someone teach from it?
I could look at your bookshelf and not see a premillennial book ...is that your claim?
I asked you these questions as at first you denied such. You want me to prove it, as if I could go through your life and hear what you were taught and by who taught you it????

every piece of info is important.

Was it a bible college?
What is the name of this college?

The bereans searched the scriptures to see if it was so....I can search out all statements with a critical eye.
Nothing says I have to "believe" everything you say [as stated] as it has been shown in the past 2 years that there is often a difference between the initial story and what comes to light afterward...

I do not have to call anyone names....but if someone does not tell the truth, they tell a lie. I do not know what else to call it. When someone bears false witness that is a lie about another person.

.

That is what I said and questioned earlier.

I question your version in that something does not add up....I posted a few posts back 5-6 times you mentioned quotes from people who at first you did not quite acknowledge...

That might be how you perceive it....but this thread is not all about you is it?

I had said this earlier;
Since neither of those terms are found in any bible....you must be a prodigy!
you know these terms which are not in scripture..
.have over 2000 books and none of them are premill dispensational at all....really!

This is very unlikely but as you posted you cannot seem to remember if you read them or not, or part of them, or online.....quite a web of intrigue.

No...I am found a TRUE WITNESS as I went back and confirmed my post by quoting you directly....

There is a difference between a false witness...and a true witness.

I explained that the mixed message you have sent causes confusion

I have not lied at all.....if the posts are examined we see who did what.

Trust is earned , or lost as the case may be.

You said I should learn your beliefs...so I have asked questions designed to let you say what you believe to clarify as you have sent mixed signals.

I quoted you directly and you say this is an "attack"? I am not sure how you come to this conclusion.....

Your flip flopping is what I find astonishing...

.
Sure they can and have.... they can see what I say and not what you imagined I say...in one post you said.....IOW's but there was no other words, you supply them from your imagination.

there was no real debate going on that I could see...just a back and forth discussion about ethics.

Not from my pov.....I just stated what you did, and posted quotes from you.

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again....was this a Christian college...could you provide the name and website of this school....if not, why not?

So then...you would not mind if I looked at the website then would you provide it now.

Okay ...the current website would be great then as you said I should learn about what you believe...could you provide that church website now then?

No..not true ..it is about what was Calvins view ...read post 1....you never mentioned Calvin or his view here as I showed....I did not post here because I know what calvin was about, but when you took the thread in another direction I commented on that.

This is a false statement...ie, not a true statement, it is misguided and wrong, not true.

I just explained I was only a spectator here until you took it off course.

I did not notice that it had been resolved.

that is where you went with it...

but I do...you speak falsely again

I have not said I am amill....this also is false.

You started this thread with this;

Where did I call you a name? or an insult?

I told you already it was about Calvins view....I was just reading the thread, and had no desire to comment on that.

I am not interested in your theories....I know the classic views on each position....I do not go for this lone ranger novelty idea factory.

 

And that is why you have no idea how to debate a person. You and OR want to debate a book, not a person. Not until you are willing to listen to a person's views, should you even think of posting.