In which "Millennial Camp" was ....

[DHK]

You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,[Jn 5:39]

Which scriptures were Jesus referring to, mon ami?

There were many scripture that prophesied of Christ. But they were prophetic. Philip was able to use the OT (the Book of Isaiah) to lead the Ethiopian to Christ, because "they spoke of Christ."

But now:
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God no longer speaks to us through the prophets, He speaks to us through His Son, revealed to us in the NT scripture, which give us a far clearer picture of what he has done and why.

Paul gave an allegory, or a picture using himself:
Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

In the early church they did not have NT revelation. They had just the OT scriptures and some of the spiritual gifts such as prophecy to help them along. Thus Paul says "he understood as a child," immaturely, concerning knowledge, the knowledge of only the OT, and now with some revelatory gifts he sees only as looking through a mirror darkly.
The Corinthians were known for "brass mirrors." They gave an image but not a very good one. Paul was looking forward to the day when the NT would be complete "when that which is perfect (complete) is come. Then he would see himself as he is--as the full revelation would reflect him to be. That is what the gospel does. It shows us who we are compared to Christ. He didn't live to see that day, but that is what he was living for as expressed in that passage.

James one also refers to the "law of liberty" as a mirror reflecting back our image to us.

Salvation comes through the gospel of Jesus Christ. Without that gospel one cannot be saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

The internet is a very useful tool Icon. I don't need to read the book. I simply need to look up an article on the net.

Oh...that makes it clear....if you read the words on the internet.......it is not the same as reading a book:laugh::laugh:

Of course:laugh: It is much different:thumbsup:

So...you do not have to answer to the clear contradictions that you said I was just assuming were true, when you have quoted the people I said you did.

Nice try.....

 

[Iconoclast]

As every believer is. However, the object of our faith is not always the same due to the revelation we are given. The object of Abraham’s faith was Jehovah God. The object of our faith is Jesus Christ as revealed through the gospel. Belief in Jehovah alone cannot save (today).

Jesus is Jehovah God and you deny that belief in HIM alone cannot save today


Isn't that just special:laugh: No dispensational error here at all:thumbsup:

And you wonder why I do not trust your posts at all???

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/deity.htm

2. Jesus is called Jehovah
At this point the well-trained Jehovah's Witness would want to make a distinction between the word Adonai, which is translated "Lord" in most English Bibles, and the Word Jehovah (or Yahweh), also translated "Lord" in most English Bibles. If you want to tell the difference between the words in most translations, when the original is Adonai, the word "Lord" will appear in capital and lowercase letters; when the Hebrew word is Jehovah, the word "LORD" will appear in capital and small capital letters.
Let's suppose our hypothetical Jehovah's Witness points out that in all the verses I have cited so far, the word Adonai has been employed, not Jehovah. Since the Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jehovah is the one true name of God, any passages that apply the term Jehovah to Christ would conclusively destroy their entire theology. Are there any such verses?
There certainly are. Psalm 23:1, for example, says, "Jehovah is my shepherd." Jesus very clearly applied this passage to Himself in John 10:11, 14 when He said, "I am the good shepherd." And the writer of Hebrews also applied this passage to Christ in Hebrews 13:20, when he wrote, "The God of peace . . . brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord"— Jesus our Jehovah.
In Isaiah 6:5, when Isaiah saw his vision of heaven, with the Lord high and lifted up, he said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord [Jehovah] of hosts." Yet the apostle John, referring to this same incident, writes that Isaiah saw Christ's glory, "and he spoke of Him" (Jn. 12:41).
In the famous prophecy of John the Baptist found in Isaiah 40:3, Jesus is called Jehovah: "A voice is calling, 'Clear the way for [Jehovah] in the wilderness; make smooth in the desert a highway for our God."
And in Jeremiah 23:5-6, a very crucial text for the doctrine of justification by faith. This verse introduces a new name for God, Jehovah Tsidkenu, "Jehovah our righteousness." Notice to whom it is applied: "Behold, the days are coming," declares [Jehovah], "When I shall raise up for David a righteous Branch; and He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land. [This is very clearly a messianic prophecy.] In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; and this is His name by which He will be called, '[Jehovah] our righteousness'" (Jer. 23:5-6).
Here's a very familiar passage, Joel 2:32: "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of [Jehovah] Will be [saved]." Both Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13 quote that passage, applying the title Jehovah to Christ.
The simple fact is that Jehovah's Witnesses do not witness to the true Jehovah of Scripture. They reject His own witness and the witness of His Word that Christ Himself is Jehovah who came to earth in human flesh.


3. Titles reserved for Jehovah are applied to Christ
In Isaiah 10:20, we find the expression, "Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel." The Holy one is said to be no less than Jehovah Himself. And in Acts 3:13-4, Peter tells the men of Jerusalem, "You delivered up [Jesus], and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. You disowned the Holy and Righteous One."
In Isaiah 44:6 we read, "Thus says [Jehovah], the King of Israel and his Redeemer, [Jehovah Sabaoth]: 'I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me." That verse in and of itself offers strong proof for the Trinity, because it differentiates between Jehovah and His Redeemer Jehovah. But it also reserves for Jehovah God this expression "the first and the last." That title surfaces again in Revelation 1:8, where it is again applied to Jehovah: "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." No question about who owns that title. Notice, too that it is a title that can hardly be shared with any created being: the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the almighty. Yet at the end of the book of Revelation we read these words again, this time spoken by Jesus Christ: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:13).
In Isaiah 43:11, God speaks: "I, even I, am Jehovah; and there is no savior besides Me." Did you realize the title "Savior" is reserved in Scripture for God? This verse says so in the plainest possible terms. "I am Jehovah; and there is no savior besides Me." That is why Paul, writing to Titus, did not shrink from applying the name God and the word Savior both to Jesus Christ. Titus 2:11-13 says this:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.

 

[OldRegular]

I've posted the Scriptures. You wrest them. We're done. (And folks were shocked that I said every Scofield bible needed to be confiscated, piled up and burned.)

You are a "hard" man Aaron but Scofield's notes are an abomination and have led many gullible and Biblically illiterate Christians astray.

There is nothing in Scripture that justifies the dispensationalism of Darby, Scofield, Ryrie, etc. yet sadly some unfortunate souls treat the teaching of these people as Roman Catholics hang on every word of the Roman pontiff and in a similar manner they deny that they do!

I have said many times that I support Israel, not because they are still or ever will be the elect of GOD, but because they are the only democracy in the Middle East and are a thorn in the side of Islam which I hate. Unfortunately the dispensational doctrine has influenced US policy towards Israel.

 

[OldRegular]

Scripture worth reading by some:

Galatians 3:6-9
6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

 

[DHK]

DHK
No it is not...here is what I said;
If you are trying to say that you came up with dispensational ideas all on your own
without study books
or a Scofield bible,
or some teacher teaching you the system.....

You really are naive and foolish. When dispensationalism started to become a popular topic then I looked to my Bible first and used other references just as I would with any other topic. To this day I have never read a book on dispensationalism all the way through. In fact, I might not even own one.

Are you saying that no one ever taught you this....You have quoted walvoord haven't you? You never heard a dispensational teacher....you never listened to John Macarthur??? You have never had a teacher in a bible school teach this teaching???? is that what you are saying????

Again, have you heard of the internet?
I quote passages from these people from their commentaries, their sermons, their articles, etc, most of which I am able to find on-line. Why do you presume I have either studied under them or read their books. Do you really think I went and graduated from MacArthur's College? Fat chance of that! And no I have never listened to any of his sermons. I have told you before--I don't have time to listen to sermons on the internet. You don't seem to get that. Unlike you, I am not a truck driver spending hours of time driving down hi-ways with plenty of time to spend listening to sermons. I do have other work to do.

You have never quoted any of these men???

Asked and answered?
Have you never used the "net"?



They are well known...are you saying you have never seen a Scofield bible or heard someone teach from it? I could look at your bookshelf and not see a premillennial book ...is that your claim?

You have never seen a dispensational chart ....anywhere????

Yet you claim to know people all throughout church history who believe these things.....that is amazing

It has been well over 40 years since I have been saved. I have picked up many things on the way. Any material I have picked up on the way is irrelevant to what I initially learned. I learned the basics of dispensationalism after I graduated from college, not before and not during. Your refusal to believe me is as good as unbelief or calling me a liar.

Have you read any books {even if I did not guess the right name} that taught anything about dispensationalism and premillennialism.....you just read the bible right????

I learned about dispensationalism primarily through the Bible. As with any subject I was free to consult other material. You don't believe me. That is as good as lying. It is unbelief.

Since neither of those terms are found in any bible....you must be a prodigy!
you know these terms which are not in scripture...have over 2000 books and none of them are premill dispensational at all....really!

So this is your claim...you never read these terms or this teaching in any book???

No,,,,only when you are caught telling a lie. Only when you bear false witness.

So if we search your posts you have never quoted a premill person???

When I have called you a liar is when you have violated the 9th commandment and beared false witness....

Icon, you keep bearing false witness; you don't believe me. You keep lying. Stop it. Take my word for what it is.

I did not call anyone a liar...I said they use a lie detector on the Maury Povich show......they listen to the claims of a person...the person always denies they are guilty ...but the lie detector gets them....Maury says...you said thus and so, but the lie detector says...that was a lie!

You have continued to pile up accusations on this post--needless attacks.
Your unbelief in testimony of a brother is astonishing.

You are trying to make a case that you arte the victim of ad hominem attacks, which is not true. factual statements about what a person teaches is not an attack against a person......it is being factual about the content of his teaching.

Anyone can read your previous post. I hope the other moderators do.

But I understand...you have been caught doing this to us....so now you are trying to project it on us as if we do what you do.....nice try, but the horse is already out of the barn. this cover up is too late.

Who is the "us"? Do you have a conspiracy going? I was debating you, only you. You were the one with the ad. homs.

this indicates you have perhaps read them doesn't it???/You posted it !:thumbs:
You claim to have 2000 plus books....what were they on???? Yoga? how to bake cookies? Oh wait...you say they are only there for reference.....

No, it means I know how to use a search engine. Do you really think I am going to type out lengthy passages by hand??

I asked you if you ever had a premill teacher who was taught from these sources...you never answered....yet you chide me that I should find out what you were taught??

Just for you I looked it up. I was not taught either dispensational theology nor covenantal theology in college. We were taught both systematic and biblical theology. That is Bible teaching, Icon. I learned about systematic theology on my own afterward. 40 years ago is a long time to remember all the exact courses.

Did you go to any bible school at all? Does your church have a website...post it:thumbs: I will look....

A current website would give you what I believe now, not what I studied then. In 40 plus years I have grown and learned much.

You have once again posted off topic which you tell us not to do...you have not yet addressed the OP...have you???

The OP is about millennialism, something of which I have addressed many times.
The OP is about millennialism, something which you don't believe in at all.

in post 19 you go off about the book of Hebrews...the OP is about which end time view did John Calvin hold to....

In post 23 more about Hebrews , nothing about John Calvins view...

in post 29 you falsely accuse OR of speaking about heresy when he did not use that term...nothing about the OP

in post 36...not a word about the OP...
in post 38...no mention of the OP.

in post 41 no mention of the OP

The OP says:

I don't know very much about his views on eschatology were. Does anyone know whether he was Amill, Postmill, or Premill?

That has been asked and answered. I have not read one post of yours on a direct answer to that question either, so you are simply playing the hypocrite.
Since that question has been resolved the thread is more about the millennial kingdom, which I have kept my remarks to. You don't even believe in a millennial kingdom. You are the one out of order, being amil.

isn't this just cute? false witness again. then you say this here below

Speaking of ad hominem attacks here is another of your edifying posts......

I speak the truth. It would be good when you stop with the insults.

I do not debate you because you are off topic....

It seems you don't know what the topic is. I have not read a single post of yours addressing the OP. So what is the topic, Icon? Do you have an imaginary one?

So now you claim to have a unique view that only you have because you only read the bible.....but yet, you maybe have read other premill men , but forgot what you read as it was long ago???? Which is it DHK???

You won't know my dispensational view unless you are able to hold an intellectual debate with me actually listening to what I say, not assuming that I agree with all your authorities which you assume I have read.

Tell us the mystery????

I am not looking to chase phantom views and novelties.....

there are many on here I do not agree with but they stand their ground...

Van stands by what he posts, Steaver stands by what he posts, they do not dance all around when responded to directly....

Try posting on the topic of the OP.

The mystery: Study the scriptures.
The OP: asked and answered.

 

[DHK]

Jesus is Jehovah God and you deny that belief in HIM alone cannot save today

That is right. The Jews believe in Jehovah, and as long as they confine their belief to Jehovah alone they will never be saved.

What did Philip say to the Ethiopian Eunuch, who was a convert to Judaism, and did believe in Jehovah, the Lord God of Israel.

First,
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Second, in answer to the question of being baptized:
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

His belief in Jehovah was not enough to save him; Jesus alone saves!

 

[Darrell C]

That is right. The Jews believe in Jehovah, and as long as they confine their belief to Jehovah alone they will never be saved.

What did Philip say to the Ethiopian Eunuch, who was a convert to Judaism, and did believe in Jehovah, the Lord God of Israel.

First,
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Second, in answer to the question of being baptized:
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

His belief in Jehovah was not enough to save him; Jesus alone saves!

Amen. Excellent response.


God bless.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Lord answered Moses, “Go out in front of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink.” So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the Lord saying, “Is the Lord among us or not?”[Ex. 17:5-7]


Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the tent of meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the Lord appeared to them. The Lord said to Moses, “Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink.” So Moses took the staff from the Lord’s presence, just as he commanded him. He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, “Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?” Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.[Num. 20:6-11]


For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.[1 Cor. 10:1-4]


Christ was just as much their God then as He is ours now.

 

[kyredneck]

You are a "hard" man Aaron...

I bet in real life he's got a heart as big as a suitcase.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I bet in real life he's got a heart as big as a suitcase.

Nope, monsieur. He's a Calvinist and his heart is as hard as a four day old doughnut. I know, I am one, and I would be pegged thusly as well. :tear:

 

[DHK]

Christ was just as much their God then as He is ours now.

Yes, but they did the OT saints know Jehovah as Christ?
Did they have a personal relationship with him?
Were they indwelt with the Holy Spirit? Was regeneration applicable to them?

Not even Nicodemus living in the time of Christ understood either regeneration or the new birth. How would you expect Abraham who had far less revelation than Nicodemus to understand?

The plight of denying dispensations is denying how God works in different times with different peoples even as Hebrews 1:1,2 teaches us.

Throughout the OT they brought animal sacrifices. Blood was shed. All was done in figure, as a picture of the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world," as John declared.

Even when John the Baptist declared the above statement in John 1:29, his own disciples did not comprehend how that man that he was pointing to, Jesus the carpenter, was "The Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." How then, could the OT saints expect to believe that Jehovah was Jesus? And how could one expect them to understand the truths of the glorious gospel? Impossible.

The Ethiopian eunuch needed someone to explain the scriptures to him.
So did the OT saints. But they had none. They didn't live after the time of Christ.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

 

[SovereignGrace]

Yes, but they did the OT saints know Jehovah as Christ?
Did they have a personal relationship with him?
Were they indwelt with the Holy Spirit? Was regeneration applicable to them?

They were looking forwards toward the Messiah, Christ. We look back to the same Messiah, Christ, monsieur.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Not even Nicodemus living in the time of Christ understood either regeneration or the new birth. How would you expect Abraham who had far less revelation than Nicodemus to understand?

Abram talked directly with God, Nicodemus did not.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The plight of denying dispensations is denying how God works in different times with different peoples even as Hebrews 1:1,2 teaches us.

God has dealt with His creation the same, as He changes not, as He is the same yesterday, today, and yea, forever.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Throughout the OT they brought animal sacrifices. Blood was shed. All was done in figure, as a picture of the "Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world," as John declared.

Yes. God slayed an animal and made Adam and Eve coats of skin as a covering for their nakedness, which was an example of the work the coming Messiah would do.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Even when John the Baptist declared the above statement in John 1:29, his own disciples did not comprehend how that man that he was pointing to, Jesus the carpenter, was "The Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." How then, could the OT saints expect to believe that Jehovah was Jesus? And how could one expect them to understand the truths of the glorious gospel? Impossible.

Again, they were looking towards the cross, towards their Messiah that was to come. As Moses stated The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you asked of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly when you said, “Let us not hear the voice of the Lord our God nor see this great fire anymore, or we will die.” The Lord said to me: “What they say is good. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.[Deut. 18:15-18]

 

[SovereignGrace]

The Ethiopian eunuch needed someone to explain the scriptures to him.So did the OT saints. But they had none. They didn't live after the time of Christ.

They had leaders like Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Caleb, David, Solomon, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, et al, who all prophesied of the Messiah to come. Isaiah even stated For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.[Isa. 9:6,7]

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Wonderful verse. Abraham and his seed, which is Christ, all received those promises as soon as they took their last breath and were received into glory.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

You posted this on this post;

It would be good when you stop with the insults.

and then it seemed strange that you start by saying this to me--

You really are naive and foolish

.

:laugh:

When dispensationalism started to become a popular topic then I looked to my Bible first and used other references just as I would with any other topic.

That's fine...but it is not the bible alone as my questions were getting at:thumbs:

To this day I have never read a book on dispensationalism all the way through. In fact, I might not even own one.

Well now the story has changed so many times now...really!

Again, have you heard of the internet?

Back to this again?

I quote passages from these people from their commentaries, their sermons, their articles, etc, most of which I am able to find on-line.

So other sources have been used as I also said.:thumbsup:

Why do you presume I have either studied under them or read their books.

Everyone learns from somebody that's why. Even Darby and these other men took bits and pieces from others than came up with their theory.

Do you really think I went and graduated from MacArthur's College? Fat chance of that!

I agree...you would not have passed those classes.

And no I have never listened to any of his sermons

.

I can sort of believe this based on your posting. I do not think you have listened to many good teachers that are available....you say you do not need them.:wavey:

I have told you before--I don't have time to listen to sermons on the internet.

Sermons can be listened to in the car, and even when you sit at your keyboard. I listen to many a sermon that way. You can make time for good teaching if you want to.

You don't seem to get that.

Not really...I do not get that.

Unlike you, I am not a truck driver spending hours of time driving down hi-ways with plenty of time to spend listening to sermons

.

That is one great benefit I do have and take full advantage of it. many people would like to have the time to hear as many sermons as I get to work through....

I do have other work to do.

Everyone has work to do.

Asked and answered?

Most questions that were asked were not really answered.

Have you never used the "net"?

sure...so do you....if you read it online or in a book...you read it....no real difference.


They are well known...are you saying you have never seen a Scofield bible or heard someone teach from it?
I could look at your bookshelf and not see a premillennial book ...is that your claim?
I asked you these questions as at first you denied such. You want me to prove it, as if I could go through your life and hear what you were taught and by who taught you it????

It has been well over 40 years since I have been saved. I have picked up many things on the way. Any material I have picked up on the way is irrelevant to what I initially learned.

every piece of info is important.

I learned the basics of dispensationalism after I graduated from college, not before and not during.

Was it a bible college?
What is the name of this college?

Your refusal to believe me is as good as unbelief or

The bereans searched the scriptures to see if it was so....I can search out all statements with a critical eye.
Nothing says I have to "believe" everything you say [as stated] as it has been shown in the past 2 years that there is often a difference between the initial story and what comes to light afterward...

or calling me a liar

I do not have to call anyone names....but if someone does not tell the truth, they tell a lie. I do not know what else to call it. When someone bears false witness that is a lie about another person.

I learned about dispensationalism primarily through the Bible. As with any subject I was free to consult other material

.

That is what I said and questioned earlier.

You don't believe me.

I question your version in that something does not add up....I posted a few posts back 5-6 times you mentioned quotes from people who at first you did not quite acknowledge...

That is as good as lying. It is unbelief.

That might be how you perceive it....but this thread is not all about you is it?

I had said this earlier;
Since neither of those terms are found in any bible....you must be a prodigy!
you know these terms which are not in scripture..
.have over 2000 books and none of them are premill dispensational at all....really!

This is very unlikely but as you posted you cannot seem to remember if you read them or not, or part of them, or online.....quite a web of intrigue.

Icon, you keep bearing false witness;

No...I am found a TRUE WITNESS as I went back and confirmed my post by quoting you directly....

There is a difference between a false witness...and a true witness.

you don't believe me.

I explained that the mixed message you have sent causes confusion

You keep lying. Stop it.

I have not lied at all.....if the posts are examined we see who did what.

Take my word for what it is.

Trust is earned , or lost as the case may be.

You have continued to pile up accusations on this post--needless attacks.

You said I should learn your beliefs...so I have asked questions designed to let you say what you believe to clarify as you have sent mixed signals.

I quoted you directly and you say this is an "attack"? I am not sure how you come to this conclusion.....

Your unbelief in testimony of a brother is astonishing.

Your flip flopping is what I find astonishing...

Anyone can read your previous post. I hope the other moderators do

.
Sure they can and have.... they can see what I say and not what you imagined I say...in one post you said.....IOW's but there was no other words, you supply them from your imagination.

Who is the "us"? Do you have a conspiracy going? I was debating you, only you.

there was no real debate going on that I could see...just a back and forth discussion about ethics.

You were the one with the ad. homs.

Not from my pov.....I just stated what you did, and posted quotes from you.

Just for you I looked it up. I was not taught either dispensational theology nor covenantal theology in college

.

again....was this a Christian college...could you provide the name and website of this school....if not, why not?

We were taught both systematic and biblical theology. That is Bible teaching, Icon. I learned about systematic theology on my own afterward. 40 years ago is a long time to remember all the exact courses.

So then...you would not mind if I looked at the website then would you provide it now.

A current website would give you what I believe now, not what I studied then. In 40 plus years I have grown and learned much.

Okay ...the current website would be great then as you said I should learn about what you believe...could you provide that church website now then?

The OP is about millennialism, something of which I have addressed many times.

No..not true ..it is about what was Calvins view ...read post 1....you never mentioned Calvin or his view here as I showed....I did not post here because I know what calvin was about, but when you took the thread in another direction I commented on that.

The OP is about millennialism, something which you don't believe in at all.

This is a false statement...ie, not a true statement, it is misguided and wrong, not true.

That has been asked and answered. I have not read one post of yours on a direct answer to that question either, so you are simply playing the hypocrite.

I just explained I was only a spectator here until you took it off course.

Since that question has been resolved

I did not notice that it had been resolved.

the thread is more about the millennial kingdom, which I have kept my remarks to.

that is where you went with it...

You don't even believe in a millennial kingdom.

but I do...you speak falsely again

You are the one out of order, being amil.

I have not said I am amill....this also is false.

I speak the truth. It would be good when you stop with the insults.

You started this thread with this;

You really are naive and foolish

Where did I call you a name? or an insult?

It seems you don't know what the topic is. I have not read a single post of yours addressing the OP. So what is the topic, Icon? Do you have an imaginary one?

I told you already it was about Calvins view....I was just reading the thread, and had no desire to comment on that.

You won't know my dispensational view unless you are able to hold an intellectual debate with me actually listening to what I say, not assuming that I agree with all your authorities which you assume I have read.

I am not interested in your theories....I know the classic views on each position....I do not go for this lone ranger novelty idea factory.

 

[DHK]

I am not interested in your theories....I know the classic views on each position....I do not go for this lone ranger novelty idea factory.

And that is why you have no idea how to debate a person. You and OR want to debate a book, not a person. Not until you are willing to listen to a person's views, should you even think of posting.