In which verses does the NIV mess up the meaning?

[Rippon]

Mention was made concerning Hebrews 10:14. Yes, the majority of versions have the word offering in that verse. The NIV, GW and Goodspeed have sacrifice instead.

But let's go and read verses 11-14 as a unit. and see what the author was saying. I will quote from the NIV.
"Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect for ever those who are being made holy."

By the use of the word sacrifice in verse 14 the author is harkening back to that for once-and-for-all-time sacrifice.

Please tell me what has been distorted in the message by the use of the word sacrifice.

 

[Van]

God chose the Greek word translated into English as offering. A very few thought they could improve on God's word and substituted "sacrifice."

 

[Van]

I don't want to derail the thread any further, but Agedman is quite correct. The Lord Jesus is never described in the Bible as our 'means of salvation.' He is our Saviour.

Anyone who claims Jesus is not the means of salvation, providing the propitiation for the wrath of God has some explaining to do. How are we saved from the wrath of God? By God being propitiated concerning our sin burden. What is our propitiation? Christ is our propitiation! This is obvious. Christ as our propitiation is the means of our salvation!"

 

[Rippon]

God chose the Greek word translated into English as offering. A very few thought they could improve on God's word and substituted "sacrifice."

Please inform me how the message has changed with the word sacrifice. instead of offering. I doubt anyone could do a commentary on the verse without the use of the word sacrifice -- it's that fundamental.

 

[Van]

1) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read "moved with anger."
2) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read "children of wrath."
3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."
4) Titus 3:4 love should read "love for mankind."
5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."
6) Rev. 13:8 before should read "from"
7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."
8) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read "revealed in the flesh."
9) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
10) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read "therefore"
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.
13) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read "propitiatory shelter."
14) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
15) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
16) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read "offering."​

​

 

[Van]

Please inform me how the message has changed with the word sacrifice. instead of offering. I doubt anyone could do a commentary on the verse without the use of the word sacrifice -- it's that fundamental.

If you read the passage the contrast is between a Priest offering time and again the same sacrifices, but Jesus offered one sacrifice for sins for all time. Hence, by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Translators should stick with what the text actually says.

 

[Rippon]

I Hence, by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Hmm...the AMP, WEB, ISV, Berean Literal Bible and ESV have : those who are being sanctified
The NIV,NLT,CEB, EXB,NCV, Mounce have : those who are being made holy
The NKJV has : those who are being sanctified

 

[TCassidy]

Van must have been absent from Advanced Greek the day they covered the non-temporal nature of Greek participles. LOL! ROFLOL!

 

[Van]

Yes, the ending should read are being sanctified. But laugh out loud, the issue is substituting sacrifice for offering. So more off topic effort to disparage, but nothing to say on the topic.

 

[TCassidy]

Yes, the ending should read are being sanctified.

LOL! Wrong again! A Greek participle is correctly translated as if it were a state of being verb.

 

[Van]

Are you TC claiming all the translations cited by Mr Rippon were wrong. And yet failing to provide the correct translation. Still changing the subject and addressing me.

Returning to topic, we have provided 16 verses where, according to the majority of translations, the NIV missed the mark. No rebuttal has been forthcoming, only efforts to change the subject. Go figure.

Now, lets consider 2 Corinthians 2:17 -

Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity as those sent from God.​

Here we see a possible idiomatic meaning inserted in the text. The word translated "peddle" also can mean adulterate or dilute, and as a third choice can have an idiomatic meaning like a wine maker diluting (watering down) his wine to increase his profit. Based on context, adulterate seems the best translation choice, footnoted with the two alternate meanings.

Here the message seems to be we should not alter the Word of God to increase sales. Hmm...

 

[Rippon]

Regarding Van's latest installment of spam --post #16, I will offer my comments.He keeps saying that all translations should read the way he prescribes. Well, no actually. It is his opinion. When he says the majority of translations read a certain way, I say when at least ten reputable ones differ from his preference it represents a significant challenge to his claim. So on that basis here are the ones that agree with Van's opinion:
1)
2)
3)
7)
8)
12) but the conclusion you've drawn is unsupportable

These are the non-Van points:
4)
5)
6)
10)
11)
13) this is Van's unique concoction suppoted by no version whatsoever
14)
15)
16)

So Van gets credit for 6 out of 16. That does not mean that the NIV rendering needs to be changed because it is wrong in six cases. It just means that the NIV, (with company) differs from the majority view a fraction of the time. Further, the scholarship of the NIV is not to be lightly dismissed.

 

[Rippon]

we

Wrong pronoun --you Van.

have provided 16 verses where, according to the majority of translations, the NIV missed the mark.

The above is an utter falsehood.

No rebuttal has been forthcoming,

Another lie from Van. I have been addressing all of your "issues" Van.

Now, lets consider 2 Corinthians 2:17 -

Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity as those sent from God.
​

Now what is your complaint about the NIV rendering? It is very much like the wording of the ESV, NRSV, EXB, LEB, Mounce, NASB,NKJV and WEB. What is your problem Van?​

 

[Van]

We (Martin, John Q Public, and I) have listed 16 verses of less than the best translation. Many other versions agree and translate the verses as we suggest.

1) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read "moved with anger."
2) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read "children of wrath."
3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."
4) Titus 3:4 love should read "love for mankind."
5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."
6) Rev. 13:8 before should read "from"
7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."
8) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read "revealed in the flesh."
9) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
10) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read "therefore"
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.
13) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read "propitiatory shelter."
14) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
15) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
16) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read "offering."​

 

[TCassidy]

The word εφανερωθη means "made to appear." It is an Aorist tense, Passive voice, Indicative mood, third person Singular verb.

 

[Van]

The word εφανερωθη means "made to appear." It is an Aorist tense, Passive voice, Indicative mood, third person Singular verb.

Folks, note that no effort was made to identify how this Greek word, not even transliterated, relates to the topic. Strong's and Thayer's lexicons indicate the word not only has a meaning of "made to appear" but also to make known what was unknown, thus to reveal. The NIV translates slightly different forms from the same word group as "revealed" at John 1:31, at John 2:11, at John 17:6, at Romans 16:26, at 2 Corinthians 4:10, at 2 Corinthians 4:11, at 2 Timothy 1:10, at 1 Peter 1:20, and at Revelation 15:4. Therefore 1 Timothy 3:16 should read "revealed."

 

[Rippon]

We (Martin, John Q Public, and I) have listed 16 verses of less than the best translation. Many other versions agree and translate the verses as we suggest.

Are you three the final arbiters? Many translations do not agree with your assertions.

3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."

You are the only one making that protestation.

5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."

No translation has that rendering.

7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."

Many reputable translations do not have that wording.

13) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read "propitiatory shelter."

You, and you alone, have come up with that. No one has agreed with that rendering. No translation in existence has that wording. Don't be sneaky.
​

 

[Van]

Folks, the evidence is in, many places actual words or parts of words have been omitted, many places words have been translated as if they were other words, and in many places words have been added but not italicized, so the reader is unaware that the text has been altered. The majority of well accepted translations differ with the NIV on these verses. No amount of obfuscation, slander, and subject change will alter the evidence. Folks, you are the final arbitrators, just read the evidence in light of 2 Corinthians 2:17.

 

[Rippon]

The majority of well accepted translations differ with the NIV on these verses.

I have already itemized in past posts how your assertions are less than truthful. Deal with my last post --#157. I know you don't like to deal with specifics. You enjoy hiding and sniper fire instead.

Man-up boy.

No amount of obfuscation, slander, and subject change will alter the evidence.

With those false charges you will have to document the basis of your accusation. You have not addressed my last post. Yet you come up with nonsense.

Folks, you are the final arbitrators, just read the evidence in light of 2 Corinthians 2:17.

How in the world are you going to condemn the NIV in light of 2 Cor. 2:17?!

You are 'vantasizing.'

 

[Van]

More of the same "you this, you that, you you you." Changing the subject will not alter the evidence.

Folks, the evidence is in, many places actual words or parts of words have been omitted, many places words have been translated as if they were other words, and in many places words have been added but not italicized, so the reader is unaware that the text has been altered. The majority of well accepted translations differ with the NIV on these verses. No amount of obfuscation, slander, and subject change will alter the evidence. Folks, you are the final arbitrators, just read the evidence in light of 2 Corinthians 2:17.

1) Mark 1:41 Jesus was indignant should read "moved with anger."
2) Ephesians 2:3 deserving of wrath should read "children of wrath."
3) 2 Thess. 2:13 to be saved should read "for salvation."
4) Titus 3:4 love should read "love for mankind."
5) James 2:5 to be rich in faith should read "yet rich in faith."
6) Rev. 13:8 before should read "from"
7) Rev. 22:21 be with God's people should read "be with all."
8) 1 Timothy 3:16 appeared in the flesh should read "revealed in the flesh."
9) John 1:16 does not seem any more flawed than many other translations, what the text actually says is "And out of His abundance we all also obtained grace against grace."
10) Isaiah 12:3 the omission of the conjunction should read "therefore"
11) 2 Thess. 3:6 who is idle should read "who leads an undisciplined life"
12) Colossians 1:28 the omission of "every man" (or every person) reduces the force of the teaching that the gospel is understandable to every person.
13) Romans 3:25 sacrifice of atonement should read "propitiatory shelter."
14) 1 John 2:2 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
15) 1 John 4:10 atoning sacrifice should read "propitiation."
16) Hebrews 10:14 sacrifice should read "offering."​