In which verses does the NIV mess up the meaning?

[InTheLight]

You guys should take this spat to private messages, er, conversations.

 

[Van]

Lets consider Philemon 1:6, " I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ." (NIV) Our first question is, "what are the actions or activities in view in accordance with "partnership with us." Certainly we all share in our love and devotion to Christ, but is more in view, i.e. our striving to become more Christ-like, and our efforts to carry out our measure of faith, our share of the ministry of reconciliation? Based on verse 5, both of these addition actions seem to be in view.

Thus the actual inspired idea appears to be "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

Lets consider Philemon 1:6, " I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ." (NIV)

Our first question is, "what are the actions or activities in view in accordance with "partnership with us." Certainly we all share in our love and devotion to Christ, but is more in view, i.e. our striving to become more Christ-like, and our efforts to carry our our measure of faith, our share of the ministry of reconciliation? Based on verse 5, both of these addition [sic]actions seem to be in view.

Based on verse 5? Verse 5:"because I hear about your love for all his holy people and your faith in the Lord Jesus."

The additional elements are not in view in verse 5.

Thus the actual inspired idea appears to be "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

Ignoring for a time what you said about "the actual inspired idea" --two versions render it "participation" --the Darby and HCSB.

CEB,ISV and NAB also render it as 'partnership in the faith' like the NIV. The word partnership is clear --'participation' is nebulous.

The NET note says that 'blessing' means :everything good. So "every good thing" as the NIV reads is perfectly acceptable. Darby,ESV,HCSB, MEV, Mounce, NASU,YLT and WEB (among others) concur.

"For the sake of Christ" is how it also reads in the ESV and NASU.

So I fail to see how the NIV messed up anything in this verse.

 

[TC]

Lets consider Philemon 1:6, " I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ." (NIV) Our first question is, "what are the actions or activities in view in accordance with "partnership with us." Certainly we all share in our love and devotion to Christ, but is more in view, i.e. our striving to become more Christ-like, and our efforts to carry out our measure of faith, our share of the ministry of reconciliation? Based on verse 5, both of these addition actions seem to be in view.

Thus the actual inspired idea appears to be "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

and I pray that the fellowship of your faith may become effective through the knowledge of every good thing which is in you for Christ’s sake. (NASB)

That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. (KJV)

that the sharing of your faith may become effective by the acknowledgment of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus. (NKJV)

and I pray that the sharing of your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ. (ESV)

I pray that your participation in the faith may become effective through knowing every good thing that is in us for the glory of Christ. (HCSB)

that the fellowship of thy faith may become effectual, in the knowledge of every good thing which is in you, unto Christ. (ASV)

 

[Van]

Thanks TC for presenting many of the ambiguous, obscure, and arcane translations found in various English translations of Philemon 1:6. "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

Thanks TC for presenting many of the ambiguous, obscure, and arcane translations found in various English translations of Philippians 1:6. "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

Your "translation" of Phillippians 1:6 is whacked out.

It should read thusly :"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (NIV)

 

[TC]

Thanks TC for presenting many of the ambiguous, obscure, and arcane translations found in various English translations of Philippians 1:6. "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

You originally said Philemon 1:6. I quoted some that you have said are better Bible versions than the NIV for studying (including the NASB first). Are you saying that they are wrong? If so, what are your qualifications for declaring them wrong?

 

[Van]

Philemon1:6. "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

Your "translation" of Phillippians 1:6 is whacked out.

It should read thusly :"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (NIV)

Van is insistent about rewriting Scripture. He is confusing Philemon 6 with Philippians 1:6.

 

[Van]

Sorry for the senor moments. Not sorry for pointing out yet another verse where the NIV misses the message and provides an arcane translation. Just read it in context folks, "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

Not sorry for pointing out yet another verse where the NIV misses the message and provides an arcane translation.

There is nothing mysterious about the NIV's rendering of the verse:
I pray that your partnership with us in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every good thing we share for the sake of Christ.

Your rendering of the verse has more in common with the NIV reading than any version. The Van-version has a total of 24 words. The NIV shares 17 of those in common. The HCSB shares 12. The NKJV shares 9. The NASU shares just 8.

The NIV has the longest word string of 12 words in common with your rendering:"in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every."

You blatantly lifted the NIV phraselogy of "may be effective in deepening your understanding." No other version reads that way. But you appropriate it for yourself and proceed to basically bad-mouth at the same time. SMH.

Yet with all of the facts, you want to maintain that the NIV's reading is somehow defective. You are the very definition of being wilfully blind.

You are awfully selective as to when to put your literal only principle. "Every good thing" is more literal than "every blessing." But we have noted for some time now that consistency is not one of your strengths.

You are grasping at straws Van.

 

[Van]

Yet another you you you flagrant rule violation post, and no action from moderation.

Word counts? Good Grief. Translations from the same text would be expected to share words. "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

Word counts? Good Grief. Translations from the same text would be expected to share words.

What is grievous about word counts? You used the NIV wording for a good portion of your preferred wording. Don't claim that you came up with it all on your own. It was not coincidental.

Since the NIV rendering and your "translation" are so similar I fail to see what your gripe is. Be specific and point out what you think are the deficiencies.

And please inform us how some of your favorite translations --HCSB,NASU and NKJV are all "ambiguous, obscure and arcane" in their renderings of this verse.

 

[Van]

I see the guy who has no idea what the underlying text says believes no one else could understand it. LOL
G1756 = effectual (effective)
G1922 = full discernment (understanding)
G18 = useful gift (blessing)

"I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ."

 

[Rippon]

G1756 = effectual (effective)
G1922 = full discernment (understanding)
G18 = useful gift (blessing)

And your point is what exactly?

I asked for specifics as to why you think the NIV rendering is defective. You shoot blanks in reply.

You steal a key phrase from the NIV reading for your own use and yet bad-mouth the NIV for what reasons?

You ignore my requests to answer my specific questions.

You arbitrarily employ your oft-stated principle of putting only the "literal" in the text. But with this verse you change course with no explanation. The AMP,Darby, ESV, MEV, Mounce,and your favorites --the HCSB, LEB, NASU,WEB and NKJV all use the words "every good thing" which is closer to the Greek than "blessing." Why the sudden turn-around on your part? It just points out your basic inconsistency.

You have proven nothing --as is the case with most of your posts in this thread.

 

[Van]

Yet another effort at personal incredulity, as if the ploy was not shooting blanks. More slander, more you, you and you, and more inaction by moderators. This thread is supposed to be addressing defective verses, like Philemon 1:6 in the NIV. Now Rippy claims to know what an original word means. LOL Perhaps some lexicon says G18 does not mean "blessing" as in a useful gift. Tick tock

 

[Rippon]

This thread is supposed to be addressing defective verses,

Yes, indeed it is. I have repeatedly asked :What specifically is your problem with the NIV rendering?

 

[Van]

Does ambiguous, obscure or arcane ring a bell. Folks, note the inability to defend the NIV translation. But "I pray that your participation in the faith may be effective in deepening your understanding of every blessing that belongs to you in Christ" is unambiguous, crystal clear, and easily understood.

 

[Rippon]

note the inability to defend the NIV translation.

The onus is on you to specify what your problem is.

As I had noted earlier the word "participation" is found in two other versions. That stands as somewhat vague in comparison with the clearer "partnership."

Nevertheless, if you prefer "participation" it still doesn't justify your irrational claim that the NIV reading is so inferior. It's your responsibility to make a case ---you have not come close.

 

[Van]

Now we have the assertion that partnership is less vague than participation. LOL
Does anyone have a clue what the NIV was actually trying to say???