Inconsistent on Qualifications

[Brother James]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
The Ante-Nicene Church viewed divorce, regardless of the circumstances, as sin, and the first divorce officially recognized by the church did not occur until the 5th century. Divorce is very different from any other sin because it opens very wide the door for a lifetime of adulterous behavior since once a man or woman is married, regardless of their being saved or not, they are view by God as being married as long as both of them are still alive. Therefore, if a divorced man or woman remarries, they are committing adultery every time they engage in the marital act.

Paul, therefore, most certainly would not have allowed a divorced man to serve as the pastor of a Church, and only in recent times would such a thing be considered for even the briefest moment. Today, however, we find homosexuals, divorced and remarried persons, and others living in the most sinful imaginable state behind the pulpit.

However, if a man was divorced before he became a Christian, and has solemnly vowed before God and the church that he will not remarry, and fully intends to keep that vow, he may, in my opinion be allowed to pastor that congregation. Should he, however, begin courting a woman and make known thereby his intention to begin a life of adultery with a second wife, he should be immediately removed from his position as pastor

Should, however, the divorced wife be deceased, the man is free to remarry, and in my opinion, should be allowed to pastor a church if he meets every Biblical requirement.

This is one of the best you've come up with yet Craig. Of all the heresey you've taught here, from baptismal regeneration to losing your salvation along with the eradication of the sin nature this has got to be one of the most silly things I have ever read. Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by Brother James:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
The Ante-Nicene Church viewed divorce, regardless of the circumstances, as sin, and the first divorce officially recognized by the church did not occur until the 5th century. Divorce is very different from any other sin because it opens very wide the door for a lifetime of adulterous behavior since once a man or woman is married, regardless of their being saved or not, they are view by God as being married as long as both of them are still alive. Therefore, if a divorced man or woman remarries, they are committing adultery every time they engage in the marital act.

Paul, therefore, most certainly would not have allowed a divorced man to serve as the pastor of a Church, and only in recent times would such a thing be considered for even the briefest moment. Today, however, we find homosexuals, divorced and remarried persons, and others living in the most sinful imaginable state behind the pulpit.

However, if a man was divorced before he became a Christian, and has solemnly vowed before God and the church that he will not remarry, and fully intends to keep that vow, he may, in my opinion be allowed to pastor that congregation. Should he, however, begin courting a woman and make known thereby his intention to begin a life of adultery with a second wife, he should be immediately removed from his position as pastor

Should, however, the divorced wife be deceased, the man is free to remarry, and in my opinion, should be allowed to pastor a church if he meets every Biblical requirement.

This is one of the best you've come up with yet Craig. Of all the heresey you've taught here, from baptismal regeneration to losing your salvation along with the eradication of the sin nature this has got to be one of the most silly things I have ever read. Where do you come up with this stuff?

</font>[/QUOTE]The name of the book is, The Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is the most read book in the world, and you can easily find a copy of it at a thrift store or download it at e-sword.net.

 

[Brother James]

You ought to try reading it sometime Craig.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Powerful Word, Friend!!

 

[PrincipleDesigns]

The Ante-Nicene Church viewed divorce...

I didn't realize that we had a Catholic encyclopedia on BaptistBoard.com

 

[bapmom]

AndyT,

to be real brief, no...you do not then divorce the second wife. The Bible specifically addresses this. Once a 2nd marriage has taken place than there is and can be no reconciliation with the first spouse.

Im sorry that right now I do not have the specific passage nor am I in a place where I can look it up.

Essentially you start over and ask God to help you do right in the marriage you are now in.

 

[Salamander]

Adultery is sin against the marriage, not the individual.
It is the sin against the covenant of Holy Matrimony, not the person.

Fornication is the sin against one's own body as it is to be kept for their spouse.

Marriage makes two no longer twain but one flesh.

Divorce does not end the life of the spouse, it only injures the marriage vow.

The marriage vow becomes broken upon divorce, but it does not mean the marriage has died.

The second marriage is only adultery concerning the vow, not the person. Once a second vow has been made, the first is still only broken due to the spouse still living. "Til death do you part" is Biblical.

All the qualifications of a bishop can be made right those which would otherwise disqualify the man EXCEPT divorce and remarriage.

A man can be divorced and not remarried and still preach, but the qualification of being the husband of one wife prevents him from pastoring.

What God hath joined together ( by the marraige vow) let no man put asunder. Not any judge, not any court, only death can end a marriage.

Of course we will soon see all those who try to meander around the solid truth, but that is always to be expected by men and their witty inventions.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Adultery is sin against the marriage, not the individual.

I think it's both. The reason is because the covenant of marriage is inclusive of the spouses, not separate from. It's a sin, imo, against the marriage, against your spouse, against yourself, and against God. Quadruple whammy!

A man can be divorced and not remarried and still preach, but the qualification of being the husband of one wife prevents him from pastoring.

How so? If one believes that a remarried person cannot pastor because marriage is for life even in a scriptural divorce, and a divorced person is not remarried, then that person is still the husband of one wife.

 

[Craigbythesea]

bapmom wrote,

Essentially you start over and ask God to help you do right in the marriage you are now in.

“You” are still married to the first spouse regardless of what the laws of mortal men may say, and to participate in the marital act with the second spouse would be adultery.

In 1970, the divorce rate among evangelical Christians in the United States was 5%. In 2005 the divorce rate among evangelical Christians in the United States was 51%, slightly higher than that of the general population. The message from the pulpit has changed and today the evangelical church in the United States is an embarrassment to Christians all over the world.

 

[Salamander]

I think it's both. The reason is because the covenant of marriage is inclusive of the spouses, not separate from. It's a sin, imo, against the marriage, against your spouse, against yourself, and against God. Quadruple whammy!

Only one problem, the marriage is not an entity, it therefore cannot forgive, the spouse can and should.

Infidelity and adultery do go handinhand, but they are not exactly the same.

Infidelity is the sin against the spouse, adultery is still only the sin against the marriage vow. The vow is made unto God, who qualifies the marraige by covenant. Though the two make vows to one another, it is still God who makes the marriage as in it then not being fornication.

How so?

As long as he remains faithful to the first vow he has committed no sin, unless he divorced her. He stays open for that area of forgiveness to take over, though she may get married again, then he should stay unmarried, but then he cannot ever be the husband of one wife ever again

If one believes that a remarried person cannot pastor because marriage is for life even in a scriptural divorce,

No such thing, a hard heart never takes precedence over the need to forgive.

Though the offender may not repent, forgivenees is still the commandment.

and a divorced person is not remarried, then that person is still the husband of one wife.

Exactly.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
bapmom wrote,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Essentially you start over and ask God to help you do right in the marriage you are now in.

“You” are still married to the first spouse regardless of what the laws of mortal men may say, and to participate in the marital act with the second spouse would be adultery.

In 1970, the divorce rate among evangelical Christians in the United States was 5%. In 2005 the divorce rate among evangelical Christians in the United States was 51%, slightly higher than that of the general population. The message from the pulpit has changed and today the evangelical church in the United States is an embarrassment to Christians all over the world.

</font>[/QUOTE]That 51% rate is due to the overwhelming acceptance of the "exception clause".
In 1970, many still held to the virtues of remaining married inspite of infidelity, hoping more for reconciliation and that old proverb, the husband to be won by the chaste conversation of the wife.

He might run around like the neighborhood dog for awhile,, but when and if he sees she's been faithful, if he has any heart for God, he will be broken and REPENT!

 

[Hope of Glory]

It's also higher than the outside world because the church does not yet condone shacking up to the same extent that the non-Christian world does.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I think we are getting away from the intent of the OP. Let's get back on track...

My question is why is there an inconsistency there? If we hold up divorce (which is not even mentioned in the text) in such a manner, why do we not hold up all of the qualifications in the same way? Why is a man that was a drunk before salvation qualified, but a man who was divorced before salvation disqualified?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Salamander:
Only one problem, the marriage is not an entity, it therefore cannot forgive, the spouse can and should.

Good point. Hadn't thought about that.

Infidelity is the sin against the spouse, adultery is still only the sin against the marriage vow.

Your point is noble, but I disagree with you. Adultery is when a married person fornicates (has sex with a person who is not his/her spouse). But adultery isn't limited to just , well, shall we say, insert tab "A" into slot "B". Being intimate in any manner with a person who is not your spouse, in a manner which is reserved for your spouse, is, imo, adultery. If a man kisses another woman in an intimate manner, or even has intimate conversation in an intimate manner, I believe it to be adultery. WE shouldn't buy the "it wasn't cheating because we never had sex" rationalization. The spirit and intent is clearly there.

As long as he remains faithful to the first vow he has committed no sin, unless he divorced her.

My point is that, if he divorces her for a scriptural reason (adultery or desertion), and he does not remarry, then he is, following your prior requisite, still the husband of one wife, and is not for that reason disqualified.

 

[Salamander]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
I think we are getting away from the intent of the OP. Let's get back on track...


</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> My question is why is there an inconsistency there? If we hold up divorce (which is not even mentioned in the text) in such a manner, why do we not hold up all of the qualifications in the same way? Why is a man that was a drunk before salvation qualified, but a man who was divorced before salvation disqualified?

</font>[/QUOTE]Because a man can quit drinking and never be drub=nk again, but a man who is divorced is still joined to that other half even though a divorce has taken place.

God's mandate that no man can put asunder what He has joined together.

Marriage is a living institution initiated by God: divorce can only injure that living institution, not kill it.

Though many a drunkard may have thought to marry the bottle, God does not honour a marriage against His will to join a man and a woman in holy matirmony, so there goes the same sex unions! But a man who marrys, saved or not, is still married til the death of his spouse, or his own death, then it dont matter anymore.

JohnV I think you cats and dogs are in a state of harmonious bliss over there!

I agree with the acts of adultery as you say, but then every man could never be a pastor due to the accusative spirit of any conversation being seen as too intimate by the other spouse with any sex.

Fornication can only happen before marraige, adultery can only happen after marriage.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But what if it was not God that put those two together?

Many marry out of lust. Is that of God?

 

[Johnv]

SFiC makes a good point. But I think it's reasonably safe to conclude that, if a person enters into a marriage of their own free will, then it's a valid scriptural marriage.

Otherwise, we'd have a multitude of people who say "oh, my first marriage doesn't count, because it wasn't God that brought us together".

Just my $.02.

BTW, it's not wrong to marry for reasons of lust, so long as one does not marry primarily out of lust. I still lust after my wife, and will continue to do so until the day I die

 

[PastorSBC1303]

I guess all things are new except for divorce

 

[Johnv]

Just for the records, PastorSBC et al, I do disagree with the inhierent idea that a divorced person cannot pastor. However, Salamander has been consistent in his logic, so I must at least acknowlege that. I disagree with his initial premise, but his logic is sound.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

SBC,

No, when Paul wrote 'all things are become new' he was speaking about all that was sinful in the past has been forgiven and God has made that man a man after that which is righteous.

I do believe God allows remarriage. Else, Paul would not have written,

1 Corinthians 7:8-9 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

One who is divorced from his spouse is freed from that marriage contract and therefore unmarried. To become unmarried, one first has to be married.

Paul apparently went through a divorce or was widowed one. He was a Pharisee and Pharisees had to be married.

Many scholars believe Paul may have allowed his wife to leave as he wrote in the letter to the Church at Corinth 'if the unbelieving wants to depart, let her depart'.