Individual Election and Corporate Election

[SavedByGrace]

Says the scripture. But your interpretation of it twists it so you go backwards and works becomes the means of salvation.

Not that one again

 

[Van]

When you call your self elect you are claiming to be a Jew. Being chosen for Salvation and being elected to be a people of God are two different things. Not the sa,e thing nor can they ever be.
MB

Pay no attention to posters that nullify Galatians chapter 3. Just read it folks,

 

[Van]

or, the reading:

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (ESV)

"But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth" (NIV)

"As for us, we can’t help but thank God for you, dear brothers and sisters loved by the Lord. We are always thankful that God chose you to be among the first to experience salvation—a salvation that came through the Spirit who makes you holy and through your belief in the truth." (NLT)

"My friends, the Lord loves you, and it is only natural for us to thank God for you. God chose you to be the first ones to be saved. His Spirit made you holy, and you put your faith in the truth." (CEV)

"But we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved of God, for that God hath chosen you firstfruits unto salvation, in sanctification of the spirit, and faith of the truth" (DRB)

"We must thank God at all times for you, friends, you whom the Lord loves. For God chose you as the first to be saved by the Spirit's power to make you his holy people and by your faith in the truth." (GNT)

"At all times we are obligated to thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God chose you to be the first fruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through faith in the truth" (ISV)

Which means that the textual evidence is very much divided, and this verse cannot be used for the purpose of establishing or proving a doctrine.

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

For your information, and those interested, here is the textual evidence for both readings

• ἀπαρχὴν] B F G P 075 33 81 256 326 365 1573 1739 1881 1912 2127 2464 itc itdem itdiv itf itx itz vg syrh copbo Ambrose1/2 Didymusdub Pelagius Theodorelat(1/2) Cyril Euthalius John-Damascuscomm
• ἀπ' ἀρχῆς] א D K L Ψ 0150 6 104 181 263 330 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1241 1319 1852 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2492 2495 Byz Lect itar itb itd ite itg itmon ito vgms syrp copsa arm eth geo slav Ambrosiaster Ambrose Chrysostom Theodorelat(1/2) Varimadum Theodoret Vigilius John-Damascustext ς WH

The reading ἀπαρχὴν, First-fruits, is also used by Paul in Romans 16:5, "Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia unto Christ"; and 1 Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)" . And Revelation 14:4, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) unto God and to the Lamb"

Both readings date from the 2nd century as found in the Old Latin Version, which was made from the Greek

 

[AustinC]

Not that one again

This is exactly what I am telling you. Not that again.
I recognize you are sincerely wrong, ignorant of what God fully does for you. I was once holding to your legalism and imagining my works were God's grace. I kept reading my Bible and God was good in showing me my error. I trust God's goodness to you.

 

[MB]

Pay no attention to posters that nullify Galatians chapter 3. Just read it folks,

Being Abraham's seed does not make us elect because Abraham was not elect It was Jacob who was the first elect.
MB

 

[MB]

Says the scripture. But your interpretation of it twists it so you go backwards and works becomes the means of salvation.

Yeah right you don't twist scripture you make it say what it does not.
MB

 

[Van]

Being Abraham's seed does not make us elect because Abraham was not elect It was Jacob who was the first elect.
MB

One false post after another, first MB claims Timothy was Paul's biological son, thus a Jew, to avoid the fact the Gentile Timothy was elect, and now Abraham was not elect. On and on, absurdity after absurdity....

Neh 9:7
“You are the LORD God,
Who chose Abram
And brought him out from Ur of the Chaldees,
And gave him the name Abraham.

 

[Van]

For your information, and those interested, here is the textual evidence for both readings

• ἀπαρχὴν] B F G P 075 33 81 256 326 365 1573 1739 1881 1912 2127 2464 itc itdem itdiv itf itx itz vg syrh copbo Ambrose1/2 Didymusdub Pelagius Theodorelat(1/2) Cyril Euthalius John-Damascuscomm
• ἀπ' ἀρχῆς] א D K L Ψ 0150 6 104 181 263 330 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1241 1319 1852 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2492 2495 Byz Lect itar itb itd ite itg itmon ito vgms syrp copsa arm eth geo slav Ambrosiaster Ambrose Chrysostom Theodorelat(1/2) Varimadum Theodoret Vigilius John-Damascustext ς WH

The reading ἀπαρχὴν, First-fruits, is also used by Paul in Romans 16:5, "Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia unto Christ"; and 1 Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)" . And Revelation 14:4, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) unto God and to the Lamb"

Both readings date from the 2nd century as found in the Old Latin Version, which was made from the Greek

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

Shows the depth of your ignorance in textual studies

 

[Van]

Shows the depth of your ignorance in textual studies

Yet another you, you, you post devoid of topical content.

First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

 

[AustinC]

Yeah right you don't twist scripture you make it say what it does not.
MB

MB, I always post the entire passage and share the context. I know that really bothers you as you prefer ignoring context and focusing in on a sentence and a specific word in a sentence as your prooftext. Many times, I have shown you what the author is stating when I provide the entire passage, but you cannot accept it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet another you, you, you post devoid of topical content.

First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

As I have said you lack understanding of textual matters

 

[Van]

As I have said you lack understanding of textual matters

Yet another you you you post, devoid of topical content.

First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yet another you you you post, devoid of topical content.

First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.

 

[Van]

2Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those that deny scripture say the above verse does not say God has chosen you through or by reason of faith in the truth.
They slice and dice the verse and deny "through" (Greek "en" being used to show instrumentality) describes the means God used to choose (setting us apart in Christ) and the reason for His choice - faith in the truth - as determined by Him.

There turn nouns (salvation) into verbs (to be saved) in their rewrite. Pay no attention to the nullifies of God's inspired word.

 

[SavedByGrace]

2Thessalonians 2:13-14
But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those that deny scripture say the above verse does not say God has chosen you through or by reason of faith in the truth.
They slice and dice the verse and deny "through" (Greek "en" being used to show instrumentality) describes the means God used to choose (setting us apart in Christ) and the reason for His choice - faith in the truth - as determined by Him.

There turn nouns (salvation) into verbs (to be saved) in their rewrite. Pay no attention to the nullifies of God's inspired word.

 

[George Antonios]

We've had brutal disagreements here on the board, which always involves the flesh, and I'm guilty too, but we don't have to insult each other. What's the point of good doctrine if it doesn't produce charity?

 

[SavedByGrace]

We've had brutal disagreements here on the board, which always involves the flesh, and I'm guilty too, but we don't have to insult each other. What's the point of good doctrine if it doesn't produce charity?

Are you going to post something towards the discussion

 

[MB]

MB, I always post the entire passage and share the context. I know that really bothers you as you prefer ignoring context and focusing in on a sentence and a specific word in a sentence as your prooftext. Many times, I have shown you what the author is stating when I provide the entire passage, but you cannot accept it.

When you post truth I will agree although you never post much truth with out your false Calvinistic assumptions of what it really says.
MB