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Featured Individual Election and Corporate Election

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 3, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Not that one again :Cautious
     
    #21 SavedByGrace, Jan 3, 2021
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Pay no attention to posters that nullify Galatians chapter 3. Just read it folks,
     
    #22 Van, Jan 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

    Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.
     
    #23 Van, Jan 3, 2021
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    For your information, and those interested, here is the textual evidence for both readings

    • ἀπαρχὴν] B F G P 075 33 81 256 326 365 1573 1739 1881 1912 2127 2464 itc itdem itdiv itf itx itz vg syrh copbo Ambrose1/2 Didymusdub Pelagius Theodorelat(1/2) Cyril Euthalius John-Damascuscomm
    • ἀπ' ἀρχῆς] א D K L Ψ 0150 6 104 181 263 330 424 436 451 459 614 629 630 1175 1241 1319 1852 1962 1984 1985 2127 2200 2492 2495 Byz Lect itar itb itd ite itg itmon ito vgms syrp copsa arm eth geo slav Ambrosiaster Ambrose Chrysostom Theodorelat(1/2) Varimadum Theodoret Vigilius John-Damascustext ς WH

    The reading ἀπαρχὴν, First-fruits, is also used by Paul in Romans 16:5, "Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia unto Christ"; and 1 Corinthians 16:15, "I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)" . And Revelation 14:4, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (ἀπαρχή) unto God and to the Lamb"

    Both readings date from the 2nd century as found in the Old Latin Version, which was made from the Greek
     
    #24 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly what I am telling you. Not that again.
    I recognize you are sincerely wrong, ignorant of what God fully does for you. I was once holding to your legalism and imagining my works were God's grace. I kept reading my Bible and God was good in showing me my error. I trust God's goodness to you.
     
    #25 AustinC, Jan 4, 2021
  6. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Being Abraham's seed does not make us elect because Abraham was not elect It was Jacob who was the first elect.
    MB
     
    #26 MB, Jan 4, 2021
  7. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Yeah right you don't twist scripture you make it say what it does not.
    MB
     
    #27 MB, Jan 4, 2021
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    One false post after another, first MB claims Timothy was Paul's biological son, thus a Jew, to avoid the fact the Gentile Timothy was elect, and now Abraham was not elect. On and on, absurdity after absurdity....

    Neh 9:7
    “You are the LORD God,
    Who chose Abram
    And brought him out from Ur of the Chaldees,
    And gave him the name Abraham.
     
    #28 Van, Jan 4, 2021
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

    Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

    Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.
     
    #29 Van, Jan 4, 2021
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Shows the depth of your ignorance in textual studies
     
    #30 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another you, you, you post devoid of topical content.

    First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

    The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

    Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

    Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.
     
    #31 Van, Jan 4, 2021
  12. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    MB, I always post the entire passage and share the context. I know that really bothers you as you prefer ignoring context and focusing in on a sentence and a specific word in a sentence as your prooftext. Many times, I have shown you what the author is stating when I provide the entire passage, but you cannot accept it.
     
    #32 AustinC, Jan 4, 2021
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    As I have said you lack understanding of textual matters
     
    #33 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another you you you post, devoid of topical content.

    First obfuscation, making an issue of from the beginning, rather than "for salvation" and then an ad hominem.

    The issue is changing the noun (salvation) into the verb (to be saved). Whether the original text say chosen for salvation "as first fruits"or "from the beginning" is non-germane obfuscation

    Here we have selected translations that change the noun into a verb to alter the message. Every one of them that renders the noun (salvation) as a verb (to be saved) mistranslates the verse. Thus the malignant translations are found in the NIV, ESV, NLT, CEV, and GNT. These are the nullifiers of truth for the purpose of presenting falsehood.

    Here are some of the more "word meaning for word meaning" translations that try to translate nouns as nouns, and verbs as verbs in this verse: KJV, NKJV, WEB, NASB, NET, LEB, NRSV and YLT.
     
    #34 Van, Jan 4, 2021
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
    #35 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    2Thessalonians 2:13-14
    But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Those that deny scripture say the above verse does not say God has chosen you through or by reason of faith in the truth.
    They slice and dice the verse and deny "through" (Greek "en" being used to show instrumentality) describes the means God used to choose (setting us apart in Christ) and the reason for His choice - faith in the truth - as determined by Him.

    There turn nouns (salvation) into verbs (to be saved) in their rewrite. Pay no attention to the nullifies of God's inspired word.
     
    #36 Van, Jan 4, 2021
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    :Laugh:Laugh:Laugh
     
    #37 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
  18. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    We've had brutal disagreements here on the board, which always involves the flesh, and I'm guilty too, but we don't have to insult each other. What's the point of good doctrine if it doesn't produce charity?
     
    #38 George Antonios, Jan 4, 2021
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Are you going to post something towards the discussion
     
    #39 SavedByGrace, Jan 4, 2021
  20. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    When you post truth I will agree although you never post much truth with out your false Calvinistic assumptions of what it really says.
    MB
     
    #40 MB, Jan 4, 2021
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