Infants in Heaven

[webdog]

That's kind of like saying, without the grace of God there would be no God, but God does not exist by grace. (Jesus said, I am the door.)

There is only one way for a descendant of Adam to enter Heaven, and that is by grace through faith in the Door. None who perished outside of Noah's family found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David (descendant of Adam) according to the flesh;"

Surely Jesus didn't need faith in Himself!

Aaron is consistent with his view all babies perish, though. He doesn't create a special dispensation of salvation for one class of humanity he deems sinners. I believe his position is the only biblical, logical and consistent position for those holding to AOS.

 

[Aaron]

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David (descendant of Adam) according to the flesh;"

Surely Jesus didn't need faith in Himself!

Now you're just being silly.

Aaron is consistent with his view all babies perish, though.

That is not my view, as I've told you repeatedly in the past. That is my view filtered through erroneous and carnal notions of faith. Kind of like looking at a rainbow through colored lenses. You only get part of the picture.

 

[webdog]

Now you're just being silly.

I agree, that would be silly.

That is not my view, as I've told you repeatedly in the past. That is my view filtered through erroneous and carnal notions of faith. Kind of like looking at a rainbow through colored lenses. You only get part of the picture.

No, I'm confident I get the true picture. Salvation by grace through faith us hardly carnal nor in error.

 

[Aaron]

Did the Bible say each and everyone of Noah's family "had" faith ?

No. The ark didn't really save, just as the blood of bulls and goats never really atoned. BUT, just as only those in the ark were spared judgment, so only those found in Christ will be truly saved.

One is left with three "possibilities" concerning infants:

1. They're conceived already "in Christ,"
2. They're whole, righteous and holy and need no Christ
3. They enter in by grace through faith.

 

[Aaron]

Salvation by grace through faith us hardly carnal nor in error.

We differ on the source and operation of faith.

You don't believe infants can receive faith and operate it, and that men can because you look on the outward appearance.

I don't believe men can receive faith and operate it any more than can an infant, because it is given by the grace of God, and it is an operation of the spirit.

 

[saturneptune]

We differ on the source and operation of faith.

You don't believe infants can receive faith and operate it, and that men can because you look on the outward appearance.

I don't believe men can receive faith and operate it any more than can an infant, because it is given by the grace of God, and it is an operation of the spirit.

That is a very good post. Are you feeling OK?

 

[percho]

That's kind of like saying, without the grace of God there would be no God, but God does not exist by grace. (Jesus said, I am the door.)

There is only one way for a descendant of Adam to enter Heaven, and that is by grace through faith in the Door. None who perished outside of Noah's family found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

A side note question.

And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Cor 10:2

We know Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord for we are told that in Gen. 6:8. My question is did his family also find grace in the eyes of the Lord or were they baptized unto Noah as were the fathers baptized unto Moses?

 

[OldRegular]

First of all, it was Jesus himself who told us this elder son's words, if not for Jesus we would not have this statement in scripture.

It is a parable Winman.

You are deliberately, and with malice aforethought, attributing the words of the jealous older brother to Jesus Christ, giving them an authority that is unwarranted. In doing so you have Jesus Christ making contradictory statements. That is disgraceful behavior on your part. You seem to be able to admit that you are a fallible, and I believe bitter person, incapable of making a mistake!

 

[OldRegular]

That's kind of like saying, without the grace of God there would be no God, but God does not exist by grace. (Jesus said, I am the door.)

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. I believe that God is eternally self existent, period.

There is only one way for a descendant of Adam to enter Heaven, and that is by grace through faith in the Door.

I will concede that the following is true:

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Jesus Christ paid the penalty for sin. There is no Scripture that I am aware of [Perhaps you can post one.] which indicates that sacrifice could not cover to infants who are incapable of recognizing sin against God or exercising faith in Jesus Christ!

A question for you! After Adam and Eve transgressed God killed an animal to make a covering, an atonement, for their sin. [The sacrifice of that animal was only provisional looking forward to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.] Is there any indication in Scripture that Adam and Eve exercised faith?

None who perished outside of Noah's family found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

That is only supposition on your part. You cannot prove that by Scripture! Scripture simply states:

Genesis 6:8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

It does not even say that Noah's family found Grace!

 

[percho]

"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David (descendant of Adam) according to the flesh;"

Surely Jesus didn't need faith in Himself!

Aaron is consistent with his view all babies perish, though. He doesn't create a special dispensation of salvation for one class of humanity he deems sinners. I believe his position is the only biblical, logical and consistent position for those holding to AOS.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Titus 2:11
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Heb 5:9

Is the salvation in those two verses the very same salvation that came forth by the grace of God? If the answer is yes, and it is, the grace of God must have been Jesus being made perfect/complete therefore becoming the author, the first cause.

If that is truth and it sure appears to me to be so according to the word of God and is then applied to the phrase, "for by grace through the faith," what faith would that be by which the grace of God, bringeth salvation?

What was the faith by which God set forth his Son Jesus as the place of mercy, "a propitiation," so that it would be according to mercy that he saved us?

Faith is God the Father giving his Son, Jesus to shed his precious blood, to die for our sins. Grace is God the Father raising that dead Son from the dead so that the Son could become Faith, the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

Christ had to die for our sins and God the Father had to raise him from the dead, give grace for there to be faith?

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

If Christ is not raised from the dead would grace be frustrated and would Christ be dead in vain?

Gal. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[OldRegular]

No. The ark didn't really save, just as the blood of bulls and goats never really atoned. BUT, just as only those in the ark were spared judgment, so only those found in Christ will be truly saved.

One is left with three "possibilities" concerning infants:

1. They're conceived already "in Christ,"
2. They're whole, righteous and holy and need no Christ
3. They enter in by grace through faith.

You left out one, which I believe is the correct one.

God in His Grace extends the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to cover the sins of infants who are unable to comprehend sin against God or exercise faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[percho]

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. I believe that God is eternally self existent, period.



I will concede that the following is true:

Acts 4:12. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


Genesis 6:8. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

It does not even say that Noah's family found Grace!

I also believe that God is self existent. However scripture states and I will paste, John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Could the Son have it unless it be given to him? That statement says the Father Gives to the Son.

Is the giving of self existent life by the Father to the Son the grace that bringeth salvation as in my post to webdog? Reference, Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Is that when Jesus of Nazareth became the author of eternal salvation?

Is that the salvation of Acts 4:12?

Compare what you said concerning Noah's family with mine to Arron concerning same.

The above is why Jesus is called the firstborn from the dead. Anyone born of woman regardless of when they die must be born again to see/enter/inherit the kingdom of God.
Has nothing to do with where someone goes when they die. It is about inheriting.

 

[convicted1]

Seeing that faith is God's gift to man(Romans 12:3) and that He has chosen to justify the heathen by faith(Galatians 3:8), could not God grant it to infants and those who are mentally challenged?

 

[Aaron]

Seeing that faith is God's gift to man(Romans 12:3) and that He has chosen to justify the heathen by faith(Galatians 3:8), could not God grant it to infants and those who are mentally challenged?

He absolutely can.

 

[convicted1]

He absolutely can.

:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:

 

[Aaron]

You left out one, which I believe is the correct one.

God in His Grace extends the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to cover the sins of infants who are unable to comprehend sin against God or exercise faith in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

I don't see a real difference between that and the first one I suggested, but I'll add it to the list.

 

[convicted1]

He absolutely can.

That's the only way we have enough faith to believe in God to begin with. He grants us the measure of faith to believe in Him.

 

[Aaron]

That is a very good post. Are you feeling OK?

Only three days till Moses dons the Santa hat.

 

[saturneptune]

Only three days till Moses dons the Santa hat.

I appreciate your sense of humor.

 

[saturneptune]

:jesus::godisgood::jesus::godisgood:

Did you ever get to your 30th GED reunion?