Inflation Is Theft

[Dale-c]

Now, now Dale, your scriptures are out of context.

No they weren't because they were only showing that God DOES care about our monetary system.

What does Christ tossing out the money changers and a verse about cheating(and therefore stealing) have to do with the TYPE of currency a nation chooses to use?

It has to do with using a system that steals! The federal reserve STEALS from you every time they print up a new bill that isn't backed by anything!

Christ tossed the money changers because they were a) desecrating His temple and b) cheating people while they did it. He did not toss them because they were using the wrong type of currancy!

Yes, and the federal reserve cheats you and me and everyone on this board every single day!

Christ also said to render to Cesaer what is Cesaer's.

It also says to render to God what is God's.
I forgot that you put government higher than God though in many areas.

I will try to remember that next time.

Our Cesaer (the US government) has choosen to use a paper currency that is currently not backed by gold or silver, but is money because the government says it is money and it is our government's RIGHT to do so!

No it isn't! paper money has no value in and of itself. Gold and silver DO.
Why does a 1 dollar bill weigh the same as a 10 dollar bill?
That is an unjust measure. Government is NOT above God, even though you seem to think so. They cannot steal from us by using deceptive and immoral monetary practices.

 

[Daisy]

We are not at war with a nation.

That's true - we're at war with two nations.

 

[KenH]

Fiat currency leads ultimately to economic ruin. We need to go back to a dollar that is backed by gold and silver.

Some folks are already doing so: www.libertydollar.org

 

[menageriekeeper]

Okay Dale, just who benefits from this "theft"?

Oh, and here's another deep question for you. Say all of our currency was gold and silver. What happens to the value of that gold and silver when say Brazil suddenly discovers the vast mines of both that Coronado looked for all those years. Within in ten months they've mined so much of it that the gold and silver money that is weighing down your pockets is worth less than the grass growing in your yard. Who cheated who then? Gold and silver markets can be very volitle at times, do you really want your entire substance to depend on what someone else in some other country might discover?

 

[KenH]

Gold and silver markets can be very volitle at times

The purchasing power of gold over time is pretty steady. For example, the amount of gold it takes to purchase a $100,000 house today will purchase the same house forty years from now that might cost by then, say, $500,000 due to the loss in the purchasing value of the U.S. dollar.

 

[KenH]

just who benefits from this "theft"?

I don't think that I would call it "theft", but fiat currency is a horrendous policy to follow.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"The consensus now is that the dollar is weakening and the hope is that the drop in its value will be neither too much nor occur too quickly; but no matter what the spin is, a depreciating currency, one that is losing its value against goods, services, other currencies and gold, cannot be beneficial and may well be dangerous. A sharply dropping dollar, especially since it is the reserve currency of the world, can play havoc with the entire world economy. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gold is history's oldest and most stable currency. Central bankers and politicians hate gold because it restrains spending and denies them the power to create money and credit out of thin air. Those who promote big government, whether to wage war and promote foreign expansionism or to finance the welfare state here at home, cherish this power. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]History and economic law are on the side of the gold. Paper money always fails. Unfortunately, though, this occurs only after many innocent people have suffered the consequences of the fraud that paper money represents. Monetary inflation is a hidden tax levied more on the poor and those on fixed incomes than the wealthy, the bankers, or the corporations." - Congressman Ron Paul(R-TX)[/FONT]

- more at www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul38.html

 

[menageriekeeper]

Cute Ken:

The widest criticism of Liberty Dollars is that they are not backed with silver in an amount equivalent to the dollar-denominated face value of the currency based on current prices of silver. It is cheaper to buy silver on the market than to buy paper or electronic Liberty Dollars at face value and redeem them for Liberty Dollar coins.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar

 

[KenH]

I didn't say it was perfect but those who care about honest money have to start somewhere since the federal government isn't handling the situation.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Yeah, well, just where is the government supposed to get enough gold to back our currancy? What about the governments of other countries? Are we going to go to war with other countries in order to control the supply of gold?

And even if we do, what is to prevent another event like this from happening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893 ?

Can you imagine this happening on a global scale?

 

[KenH]

1) Yeah, well, just where is the government supposed to get enough gold to back our currancy?

2) And even if we do, what is to prevent another event like this from happening: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893?

1) Ever heard of Fort Knox?

"Instead, gold itself should be declared legal tender, and the dollar should become nothing more than a warehousing receipt for gold. Then, the supply of money would be determined by the supply of gold. And the demand for gold would be almost exclusively determined by the demand for the medium of exchange." - www.mises.org/story/723

2) "Whatever problems existed under the gold standard were due to government interventions—e.g., bimetallist policies that fixed the price ratio between gold and silver, interventions in the banking system that permitted government bailouts of failing banks, and other such policies. The lesson of history is that the purer the gold standard, the better it works." - www.mises.org/story/723

 

[menageriekeeper]

Instead, gold itself should be declared legal tender, and the dollar should become nothing more than a warehousing receipt for gold. Then, the supply of money would be determined by the supply of gold. And the demand for gold would be almost exclusively determined by the demand for the medium of exchange.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Whatever medium of exchange we use, whether gold, silver or seashells is going to be dependent on it's supply. But who's doing the supplying? Are we going to end up with price fixing such as is done with diamond values? If I find a gold mine in my backyard (assuming I actually own the mineral rights) do I get to set the price for "Menagerie's Gold"?

What if I find an amount equal to 1/4 of the world's existing supply? Did I just devalue everyone in the world's assets by 1/4?

Is it really a good thing to use an object that we only have a limited amount of as a medium of exchange? How can an economy continue to grow when the supply of gold reaches it's limit?

 

[Dale-c]

Okay Dale, just who benefits from this "theft"?

Um..let see....if you could just PRINT money when everyone else has to EARN their money, who do YOU think benefits from that?
Come on, use your head!

Yeah, well, just where is the government supposed to get enough gold to back our currancy? What about the governments of other countries? Are we going to go to war with other countries in order to control the supply of gold?

That is the whole point! They CAN'T back the current diluted money because they have been printing unbacked currency for so long.

If we still used gold, gas would be about 3¢ per gallon.

What happens to the value of that gold and silver when say Brazil suddenly discovers the vast mines of both that Coronado looked for all those years. Within in ten months they've mined so much of it that the gold and silver money that is weighing down your pockets is worth less than the grass growing in your yard.

No, the world would become richer.
Gold has value in and of itself.
Paper does not.
To answer your smart question, what if brazil suddenly able to produce cattle at 20 times the normal rate? There would be more beef for everyone.

That simply doesn't happen with paper.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

No it isn't! paper money has no value in and of itself.

Dale, PM me for my mailing address. You can send me all that worthless paper money!!:thumbs:



Actually most "money" in the money supply isn't even paper money. It is bits and bytes in computer systems.

 

[billwald]

First, there seems to be two kinds of inflation. First has to do with hard assets like gold and land. The price of these things has been inflating. The other has to do with consumables that we need to stay alive such as food minimum shelter and clothing. The price of these things in terms of work hours needed to buy them has been dropping. 100 years ago the average worker spent half his life's energy to get enough food to stay alive and now it is much less than 10% of a working person's budget.

Second, there are two kinds of people. For people who "clip coupons and live in their investments without working inflation is bad. For working people who "owe their souls" to the banks and loan companies nee the company store a low to moderate inflation is good because they can pay off their loans with cheaper money. For people working under cost of living contracts inflation is good because the govt over estimates the inflation rate.

 

[Hope of Glory]

The federal reserve STEALS from you every time they print up a new bill that isn't backed by anything!

This is disingenious at best. It is a portion of the GDP, so it is most certainly backed.

Is it the best? I don't know. I can see pros and cons of both forms of backing currency. But, it is backed.

Of course, at the rate the the US is losing any semblance of work ethic, this may be disastrous.

 

[menageriekeeper]

What there would be is CHEAPER beef. Producing beef at that rate would devalue the price of beef. What do you suppose would happen to cattle farmers here in the US if Brazil could do such a thing? Pretty much the same thing that would happen to the US economy if Brazil had the corner on the gold supply. (assuming a gold standard of course)

You still haven't shown me where in scripture you can find God's preference for a gold standard.

 

[Dale-c]

What there would be is CHEAPER beef

Exactly, but what would that do? It would mean more people would be able to afford beef, this RAISING the quality of life for the people that would benefit from it.

You still haven't shown me where in scripture you can find God's preference for a gold standard.

I have shown where paper/digital money is an abomination...you don't seem to agree.
If you want me to show more about gold I can.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Chapter and verse where scripture says paper/digital money is an abomination? Better repeat it cause I missed it the first time around.

 

[saturneptune]

This is a real problem. I remember the Carter years when inflation was rampant and house loans were 15-16%. That administration had absolutely no leadership, land seemed at that time that everything was out of control.

Although not to that point yet, we seem headed there. I work for the federal government, and our 401K type retirement (called TSP) is dependent on the stock market, international markets, and bond markets.

With less than two years to retirement, I really do not have time to ride out a long bear market. As of late, I have chickened out and put the money in the safe fund which is based on the long term treasury rate which is running about 5%. There is no loss, but the gains of the stock market are gone. The 5% does not beat inflation. I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place.

For those of you that are young, TIME is your best wealth building tool. Do it now, invest in the stock market with your 401K, and leave it.

 

[Dale-c]

Chapter and verse where scripture says paper/digital money is an abomination? Better repeat it cause I missed it the first time around.

What about chapter and verse that says I can't knife the tires your car?