Inflation Is Theft

[menageriekeeper]

:laugh: "Thou shalt not kill":laugh:

 

[Dale-c]

"Thou shalt not kill"

LOL, are you a tire rights activist?
Just kidding.

Anyway, I was just getting at the point that God created Gold and Silver as means for money and currency.
Paper has no value as money the way Gold does.

When certain men are able to print money at their whim, and thus create money from nothing, or even worse just type a few numbers into the banking system computer, we have an unjust balance.
It is not a "level" playing field.
One man has to work to earn, to produce, the other merely creates out of thin air.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Well I would have figured from reading the Old Testament that God had created gold and silver for things such as temple decorations. (Notice that He didn't ask the Isrealites for their currency, but for their earings and bracelets. This is somewhere in Exodus. Isn't it possible that their form of "currency" was something other that gold and silver. Somewhere I read that the first "currency" was grain, but I'm not sure exactly where I read that.)

And yes, I'm all for whatever extends the life of my tires!

 

[Hope of Glory]

Paper has no value as money the way Gold does.

Well, it's a good thing that our currency isn't just paper, isn't it?

 

[James_Newman]

Galatians 5:14
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

I don't know if you could argue that inflation is good for everyone. Who is it really good for and who is it bad for?

Proverbs 14:20-21
20 The poor is hated even of his own neighbor: but the rich hath many friends.
21 He that despiseth his neighbor sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.

As a common wage slave, I find that my income doesn't go as far as it used to. Increases in my wages don't keep up with inflation. So essentially, even though I do the same work, my work is being devalued along with my money.

 

[James_Newman]

Well I would have figured from reading the Old Testament that God had created gold and silver for things such as temple decorations. (Notice that He didn't ask the Isrealites for their currency, but for their earings and bracelets. This is somewhere in Exodus. Isn't it possible that their form of "currency" was something other that gold and silver. Somewhere I read that the first "currency" was grain, but I'm not sure exactly where I read that.)

And yes, I'm all for whatever extends the life of my tires!

Anything that has intrinsic value could be currency. Joseph bought almost the whole of Egypt with corn. What is the value of a dollar?

 

[Dale-c]

Anything that has intrinsic value could be currency. Joseph bought almost the whole of Egypt with corn. What is the value of a dollar?

That is the whole point, anything of intrinsic value.

when you use grain, 1 bag is worth one bag, not 100.

But with paper money, one bill is worth $1 or maybe $10, or maybe $100, only depending on the ink that is printed.

Let me ask you this, if you had a gold coin that was no longer currency, and you also had a paper bill that used to be currency, and you took it into a small hardware store and aksed the owner if he would sell you something using one or both of those which do you think he would accept?

 

[Dale-c]

Well I would have figured from reading the Old Testament that God had created gold and silver for things such as temple decorations.

Ge 13:2 And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Ge 24:35 And the LORD hath blessed my master greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses.

Ge 24:53 And the servant brought forth jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment, and gave them to Rebekah: he gave also to her brother and to her mother precious things.

Ge 23:16 And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant.

Notice that ABraham used silver as current money

What do "cattle, in silver, and in gold" have in common? They are all worth something in and of himself.
Notice there isn't any paper mentioned there.

Paper money only has value as long as the government says so.
Gold has value because GOd says so.

 

[Dale-c]

Question, if a man, other than the government, makes a coin out of pure gold exactly as the currency and exactly to the standards of the current money of his country, is that coin of value?

Now, the same man takes paper of the exact kind his country uses to print money and he prints a bill that is exactly identical to the current paper money, does the bill have any value?

 

[menageriekeeper]

Now, the same man takes paper of the exact kind his country uses to print money and he prints a bill that is exactly identical to the current paper money, does the bill have any value?

It'll have value to those who believe it is currency backed with the authority of our government. And then when it is found to be counterfiet, they guy that made it will be headed to jail!

If you wish to only trade what you hold to be valuable (your labor, your product) for only which you hold to be valuable (gold, someone else's labor) instead of a dollar bill which represent value, so be it. Just don't make it into a sin for the rest of us who don't see the big deal.

Yes, we take a risk in carrying dollars instead of actual gold. Yes, it is a possibility that those dollars could lose the value(of goods or services) that they represent. Of course they could also gain in the value that they represent. But, we would risk the same things even if those dollars represented a certain amount of actual gold or silver.

As a common wage slave, I find that my income doesn't go as far as it used to. Increases in my wages don't keep up with inflation. So essentially, even though I do the same work, my work is being devalued along with my money.

You know what? I've heard this all my life. Is it really your work that is being devalued or is your work just not in demand as much anymore? Here's a second question: Are you dollars not going as far or have your wants exceeded your needs?

When I start complaining about T's paycheck not going as far, sitting down and comparing today's budget against that of a few years ago, generally sets me straight again. Three years ago, we didn't: pay for all 5 to take karate, have a car payment, think the air conditioning should be set at 70, eat out or eat convnience foods instead of cooking, have two chronically ill kids with doctor bills to match, etc. Three years ago, I was also productive and brought in a certain amount of money myself.

Circumstances change, if we can't change with them then we aren't going to make the best use of our dollars. Complaining that our dollars aren't backed with gold and are therefore intrinsically valueless isn't going to change our spending habits.

 

[Gold Dragon]

If shiny things went out of style and large deposits were found, gold inflation would go through the roof! Although it is still a pretty good conductor and a highly malleable metal. The 'so-called' intrinsic value of gold is also perception based like fiat currencies.

One problem with commodity backed currencies is that the need for the currency can quickly outgrow the gold supply the backs the currency. Wealth is being generated all the time. But gold generation/acquirement will never be able to keep up with that pace, resulting in a lack of trust that the commodity backed currrency actually is backed by said commodity. The commodity backed currency will lose value and, viola, inflation. War to acquire the gold of another country is always an option.

 

[Dale-c]

It'll have value to those who believe it is currency backed with the authority of our government. And then when it is found to be counterfiet, they guy that made it will be headed to jail!

You avoided the question. Would the COIN have any value?

Just don't make it into a sin for the rest of us who don't see the big deal.

I never said anyone was in sin for using paper money. I use paper money myself, never used anything else except checks and plastic and PayPal.
My point is not to tell everyone that they are wrong for using the currency of our day but to expose the wicked Godless bankers who are steal from all of us everyday.
I am on YOUR side, not against anyone on this board on this issue.

Is it really your work that is being devalued or is your work just not in demand as much anymore?

No, the money he is being paid is not worth as much anymore.

I have had the same hourly rate for 4 years now.
It was great when I started but then gas was $1.35 and not it is $2.70 and I drive a lot for my work.

Gas isn't just going up, (though that may be part of it) money is going down.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Well I can't argue that gas is going up! Not when T drives 100 miles a day to work and back.

But, I also can't see any real proof that rising gas prices mean less value for the dollar. If we used gold, would we not have to use more of it to buy the same amount of gas, just as we have to spend more dollars?

 

[Dale-c]

But, I also can't see any real proof that rising gas prices mean less value for the dollar. If we used gold, would we not have to use more of it to buy the same amount of gas, just as we have to spend more dollars?

Yes, gas has gone up more than other expenses, that is true. Inflation is only PART of the issue with gas and judging from the amount, only small one would be my guess.

But gold generation/acquirement will never be able to keep up with that pace,

What pace?
When we used Gold and silver only, if there wasn't much gold, it meant that a tiny amount would by a whole lot.
We didn't have a minimum wage of $5.15 per hour.
For that matter, we might only need 10¢ per hour to make a living

 

[Hope of Glory]

Yes, gas has gone up more than other expenses, that is true. Inflation is only PART of the issue with gas and judging from the amount, only small one would be my guess.

It's called supply and demand, and no matter what backs the currency, the economy is still subject to it. If there's a shortage of gas, you will use more gold, dollars, or wampum to pay for it.

What pace?
When we used Gold and silver only, if there wasn't much gold, it meant that a tiny amount would by a whole lot.

No. It's still based on supply and demand, and the arbitrary value placed upon the gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc. Because of the use of silver as a conductor, it's expected to rise more in value in the coming years. Supply and demand.

We didn't have a minimum wage of $5.15 per hour.
For that matter, we might only need 10¢ per hour to make a living

There didn't used to be a minimum wage, and there shouldn't be one now. The market should decide. (However, since we have had one, erasing it would be disastrous now, so I don't think it should be abolished.)

The 'so-called' intrinsic value of gold is also perception based like fiat currencies.

Yep. It's supply and demand. If I remember correctly, a sheckel of silver was based on an amount of grain. So, a sheckel would fluctuate wildly, based upon supply and demand.

Nothing that is used for currency is inflation proof. A US dollar is based on a portion of the GDP. However, no matter what is used to back the dollar, if they print more than is backed, they become worth less, and that can create problems.

No inflation is disastrous to an economy, just as deflation or stagflation is.

 

[Dale-c]

It's called supply and demand, and no matter what backs the currency, the economy is still subject to it. If there's a shortage of gas, you will use more gold, dollars, or wampum to pay for it.

Yes, that was my point.

No. It's still based on supply and demand, and the arbitrary value placed upon the gold, silver, copper, platinum, etc. Because of the use of silver as a conductor, it's expected to rise more in value in the coming years. Supply and demand.

Again, I still agree except that I wouldn't call it arbitrary.
Gold still has value as money in and of itself.
Paper does not

There didn't used to be a minimum wage, and there shouldn't be one now. The market should decide.

Yes, I agree that there shouldn't be one and I know we didn't have one til the 30s I believe?
A fair wage should be decided upon by the two parties involved and those two alone.

Nothing that is used for currency is inflation proof.

Another thing to take into consideration. You have to mine gold.
When someone finds gold, that is the fruit of LABOR.
When the federal reserve prints money, there is NO labor.
Ever since the fall of man, man has tried to rebell against the fact that we must work to live.
Bankers have found clever ways to create wealth without labor.
But someone still must labor, you can't just create a new car out of nothing. Someone has to build houses.
When you must work for you money and someone else can just print it up, there is no way you can compete.
And they are essentially stealing from all that aren't the privilidged ones.

 

[billwald]

First, every time I use a credit card I am creating money out of nothing.

Second, 90% of the "money" in circulation is electronic transfer.

Third, when we were on a gold standard half the people lioved in poverty. There was the working class, few professionals like doctors, lawyers, and engineers, and very few rich people. The "middle class" didn't start to baloon until after WW2. After the freak post war conditions began to fade we were headed for trouble until the world went off the gold standard.

You young people who have never seen a day of hard times - neither have I- think you will be in the gold owning class if we reverted to gold money. Fat Chance! Most of the working class never had any gold.

 

[Dale-c]

Third, when we were on a gold standard half the people lioved in poverty.

I don't think that is a true statement at all. In fact, I think it is totally false.
Would you care to back it up?

First, every time I use a credit card I am creating money out of nothing.

Yes but you are NOT creating wealth out of nothing. I just bought a camera online using a credit card. That camera did not come from nothing.
Someone had to produce that camera.
Also, the bill for the credit card will have to be paid (fortunatly not by me-company card)
You can't create wealth out of nothing.

Second, 90% of the "money" in circulation is electronic transfer.

Yep. at least.
And it is getting more and more that way.
But that is all avoiding the entire OP.

When the federal reserve can create money from nothing, they are stealing from everyone else.
It is an abomination to our God.
It is a false balance. It is a false wealth.
You bank account could go away tomorrow if the banking system crashed.

If you had real gold, you would still have it, no matter what the economy did.

 

[Dale-c]

Third, when we were on a gold standard half the people lioved in poverty.

I don't think that is a true statement at all. In fact, I think it is totally false.
Would you care to back it up?

First, every time I use a credit card I am creating money out of nothing.

Yes but you are NOT creating wealth out of nothing. I just bought a camera online using a credit card. That camera did not come from nothing.
Someone had to produce that camera.
Also, the bill for the credit card will have to be paid (fortunatly not by me-company card)
You can't create wealth out of nothing.

Second, 90% of the "money" in circulation is electronic transfer.

Yep. at least.
And it is getting more and more that way.
But that is all avoiding the entire OP.

When the federal reserve can create money from nothing, they are stealing from everyone else.
It is an abomination to our God.
It is a false balance. It is a false wealth.
You bank account could go away tomorrow if the banking system crashed.

If you had real gold, you would still have it, no matter what the economy did.

 

[Hope of Glory]

When the federal reserve prints money, there is NO labor.

How difficult is it to understand that our dollars are based on portion of the GDP? It is based entirely upon labor.