Influential Pastor Warns of Socialism, Departure from God

[Thinkingstuff]

They died because they lied. In essence.... they answered to Peter with the power of an oath answering to God (because God revealed the lie to Peter) therefore they met the judgement of God. When you go before a court in our land and you affirm or swear.... God takes your word as seriously as that of Anninias and Saphira.... and it is under such trembling and conscience which every believer gives testimony, lest God judges his heart and smites him.

Anninias and Saphira could have kept back a little or all they wanted... but they presented the 'gift' as though it was 'all' that they had while secretly collaborating together to hoard something for themselves. It was not because they kept a portion of their posessions... but that they mis represented their gift and also their position of poverty and interdependence (due to their 'generous' gift) before the body of believers to which they were a part. Their alignment with the deceiver put them at enmity with God and subject to God's judgement, which they did not know or respect.... or else they would not have lied.

Exactly, it was voluntary. But they Just wanted to be cool.

 

[Ruiz]

If not sharing gets you excommunicated then (scriptures don't say that in fact it argues against that with Anninias and Saphira) its not voluntary.

Thinking, Anninias and Saphira were punished for lying, not for refusing to give everything. Reread Acts 5. Most commentators (if not all) I have read agree.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Thinking, Anninias and Saphira were punished for lying, not for refusing to give everything. Reread Acts 5. Most commentators (if not all) I have read agree.

You think I'm arguing with you. I'm not. I've just commented on a previous statement that Christians would be excommunicated for not volunteering to give their wealth. I used the Anninias story to show that view wasn't true. Because the issue wasn't their volunteering but as you say lieing to get into the good graces of the Apostles and the fellowship. So, the early church volunteered to give to the community freely thus they acted socialisticly. In a socialistic government it is elected by the majority and since the majority is awar of socialism it is volunteering to have elected officials distribute the wealth. Which means the first christians acted in accordance with this tennant though the motivation was different.

 

[sag38]

You think I'm arguing with you. I'm not. I've just commented on a previous statement that Christians would be excommunicated for not volunteering to give their wealth. I used the Anninias story to show that view wasn't true. Because the issue wasn't their volunteering but as you say lieing to get into the good graces of the Apostles and the fellowship. So, the early church volunteered to give to the community freely thus they acted socialisticly. In a socialistic government it is elected by the majority and since the majority is awar of socialism it is volunteering to have elected officials distribute the wealth. Which means the first christians acted in accordance with this tennant though the motivation was different.


Talk about poor exegesis and application of God's word to justify stealing from one segment of society to give to another. I feel sorry for any victim who comes under your teaching from the Bible.

 

[Ruiz]

You think I'm arguing with you. I'm not. I've just commented on a previous statement that Christians would be excommunicated for not volunteering to give their wealth. I used the Anninias story to show that view wasn't true. Because the issue wasn't their volunteering but as you say lieing to get into the good graces of the Apostles and the fellowship. So, the early church volunteered to give to the community freely thus they acted socialisticly. In a socialistic government it is elected by the majority and since the majority is awar of socialism it is volunteering to have elected officials distribute the wealth. Which means the first christians acted in accordance with this tennant though the motivation was different.

The people who didn't vote for it are forced to still participate. As well, the people did not give up their life to live in a socialist society. They did sell to give to the needy and they acted as though they had nothing and they willingly, not under compulsion, gave. Socialism does not give you a choice and makes it so you are under compulsion. That is why socialism is evil.

Next, only in Jerusalem was such acts seen. Christians elsewhere did not feel compelled to repeat that practice.

Finally, the Bible honors, not the living as one, but the sacrificial giving from the heart. With no compulsion, people were seen as generous and compassionate. Socialism is neither generous nor compassionate as it is compulsory.

 

[Don]

I think the Idea with Socialism is that its a democratically elected government thereby the sharing of wealth is known and thus voluntary. The only difference is instead of Church leaders distributing the wealth the elected government does that.

Except that our system in the U.S. is not socialist.

What I have today, I've worked for over 20 years to have; and due to an administration that I didn't vote for, I'm being threatened to share that 20 years' worth of work with those that simply want their bills to magically disappear.

Someone educate me on how that economic system works.

 

[sag38]

It works by stealing from those who work and giving it to those who won't. No where in the Bible is this practice advocated. To do so is to twist the scripture in order force it to mold into the progressive agenda of tax and spend. The problem is that after a while there is no one left to tax. Everyone has their hand in the collective cookie jar and we end up just like Greece.

 

[rbell]

I think the Idea with Socialism is that its a democratically elected government thereby the sharing of wealth is known and thus voluntary. The only difference is instead of Church leaders distributing the wealth the elected government does that.

Wow...this shows stunning ignorance of the difference between sharing in the early church, and socialism as practiced by governments.

Also...long-term, socialistic systems of government haven't worked.

 

[RAdam]

It works by stealing from those who work and giving it to those who won't. No where in the Bible is this practice advocated. To do so is to twist the scripture in order force it to mold into the progressive agenda of tax and spend. The problem is that after a while there is no one left to tax. Everyone has their hand in the collective cookie jar and we end up just like Greece.

Not only this that practice not advocated in the bible, it is spoken against in the bible. But people who wish to twist the bible to fit their social agenda don't care. They are too busy presenting Jesus as a hippie liberal who wanted world peace, loves socialism, and never had one harsh word to say to anyone. In short, they have invented their own version of Jesus, have twisted the scriptures to fit their invention and social ideas, and now present what they have invented, a social gospel, as the real gospel.

 

[sag38]

It's a social gospel may get you check each month but in the final accounting it will send you straight to hell for the real gospel requires that a man or woman have faith in Jesus and not the government.

 

[Robert Snow]

It's a social gospel may get you check each month but in the final accounting it will send you straight to hell for the real gospel requires that a man or woman have faith in Jesus and not the government.

Some of the things the right-wing say astounds me! Show me where the scripture makes the government the issue? And, on another thread these same posters complain that those in our churches are being taught the biblical method of salvation. (General Baptist Discussions - VBS thread)

 

[Revmitchell]

Some of the things the right-wing say astounds me! Show me where the scripture makes the government the issue?

You may want to rethink this post.

 

[Robert Snow]

You may want to rethink this post.

No, I am happy with it.

 

[HankD]

Has not the general "departure" already taken place?

During the presidential election campaign, an expose showed America being publicy cursed and God blasphemed by the pastor of one of the candidates.

Apparently, this made no difference to the majority who voted and didn't matter to those who didn't vote but could have.

This is in addition to the issues of abortion, euthanasia and eugenics by the present administration and it's advisory staff of "Czaars".

Are we not already asleep at the wheel?

HankD

 

[sag38]

Some of the things the right-wing say astounds me! Show me where the scripture makes the government the issue? And, on another thread these same posters complain that those in our churches are being taught the biblical method of salvation. (General Baptist Discussions - VBS thread)

What??????? Help us so called "right wing" understand what in the world you are talking about.

 

[just-want-peace]

Some of the things the right-wing say astounds me!

Facts ARE devilish things to those who love "pretend" (being nice here!)

Show me where the scripture makes the government the issue?

And this is a relevant question why??????

And, on another thread these same posters complain that those in our churches are being taught the biblical method of salvation.

Yeah, I like fishing too!

'Tis truly a shame you let your motorcycle accident "epiphany of conservative insight" ride off into the sunset! You actually made some sense back then.:tear:

 

[Revmitchell]

No, I am happy with it.

What you said has nothing to do with what you quoted

 

[rbell]

During the presidential election campaign, an expose showed America being publicy cursed and God blasphemed by the pastor of one of the candidates. Apparently, this made no difference to the majority who voted and didn't matter to those who didn't vote but could have.

HankD

The crickets you hear are RS ignoring this particular post, because he has no answer for it.

Wait...don't tell me...

A guess:

Well, Bush was worse than Jeremiah Wright.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Bro Charles Stanley is right on target.

Its shamefull what is going on in this country. Its even more shamefull that people who should be able to see it choose to ignore the Big Gorilla in the room.

:BangHead:

 

[saturneptune]

Thinking, Anninias and Saphira were punished for lying, not for refusing to give everything. Reread Acts 5. Most commentators (if not all) I have read agree.

Wow, if the same standard were used today, we would be short of politicians.