Inherited sin nature is wrong.

[MB]

Suit yourself.

It's not a matter of suiting my self. It's scripture that matters. Scripture does not say we are in Adam when he sinned and therefore are guilty before we exist.It seems you believe an assumption of Calvinism. This is one of the biggest problems with Calvinism it assumes things that are not so.
MB

 

[HankD]

It's not a matter of suiting my self. It's scripture that matters. Scripture does not say we are in Adam when he sinned and therefore are guilty before we exist.It seems you believe an assumption of Calvinism. This is one of the biggest problems with Calvinism it assumes things that are not so.
MB

Romans 5:12 For this cause, even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin (eis - not indicated in the English text) death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The verbs are all aorist and concurrent.

The main prepositions are eis (2 times) and epi (dative - upon, on, at, in).

I am NOT a Calvinist.

 

[loDebar]

God says man has become like "us" to know good and evil (Genesis 3:22). Prior to Adam and Eve acquiring this knowledge of good and evil they remained sinless.

They were not sinless, they were not accountable because the physical had not sinned, only the spiritual.
like a infant . Just like us

 

[loDebar]

Romans 5:12 For this cause, even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin (eis - not indicated in the English text) death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The verbs are all aorist and concurrent.

The main prepositions are eis (2 times) and epi (dative - upon, on, at, in).

I am NOT a Calvinist.

death is the consequence of sin, and yes sin entered the physical world through Adam, (Sinful Satan was already here a spiritual being locked in a physical world). and yes, all men have sinned and suffer the same consequences as Adam, death. I suffer death because of sin just like Adam not because of Adam

 

[HankD]

death is the consequence of sin, and yes sin entered the physical world through Adam, (Sinful Satan was already here). and yes all men have sinned and suffer the same consequences as Adam death. I suffer death because of sin just like Adam not because of Adam

Then why do some babies die?

 

[loDebar]

HankD aren't you on the west coast?

 

[loDebar]

Then why do some babies die?

You mean ,die without a chance to know Christ.
The same question applied to those throughout history who grew ta adulthood who never knew Christ.
and why does the Devil desire to abort babies, if they go straight to heaven? Is he trying to prevent a humans chance to repent?

All I can add, is physical life is not the best or highest like, the spiritual existence is much more important.
This is a prison were the condemned have a chance to repent.
Babies die as God allows, same as us. We look on the outside, God know the heart before we are even born.

Maybe all of us have not had souls,

 

[Yeshua1]

We all here were born with fallen sinful natures, correct? Sinner by both birth and choice?

 

[MB]

Romans 5:12 For this cause, even as by one man sin entered into the world, and by sin (eis - not indicated in the English text) death; and thus death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The verbs are all aorist and concurrent.

The main prepositions are eis (2 times) and epi (dative - upon, on, at, in).

I am NOT a Calvinist.

Sorry for my presumption of you being a Calvinist.

Lets say I was there. Is there anything I could have done to prevent Adam from sinning?. The answer is no. It's a matter of responsibility. How can a man be responsible for something he didn't do?. If there was no way for me to prevent it from happening. The Bible doesn't say I was there. The Bible doesn't say I'm responsible for anything someone else does. I'm not saying I'm sinless but sin is my own doing.Not Adam's

The Bible says we are born in sin. There is no probability that I would not sin because every one does. Yet sin is a choice we all make. I'm only responsible for what I've done. Even Adam must of had a propensity to sin. It seems to me we are created with this propensity just as Adam must have been. God knew before hand that Adam would sin. He even told Adam that in the day that he did sin He would die. He didn't say when he would die. He didn't say the death would be spiritual or physical. If you think about it Spiritual death has to be a metaphorical representation. Because the body with out the spirit to quicken it, is literally dead.

For me as far as I'm concerned Total depravity does not exist. I admit men are depraved. However there is no disability from understanding, hearing or seeing. Christ spoke in parables to insure prophecy was fulfilled so that men could not understand even though they did see and hear.
Total depravity is a Catholic doctrine and in my opinion there is nothing right in Catholicism never has been and never will be Catholicism is Satanic.
MB

 

[MB]

We all here were born with fallen sinful natures, correct? Sinner by both birth and choice?

Wrong. We are only responsible for what sins we commit. Not anyone else's sin.
MB

 

[MB]

Then why do some babies die?

Because death is in the world. We all die because of it no one has immunity from death not even babies. If Adam had not sinned He would still be alive but he did sin and when he did he allowed death to enter the world.
MB

 

[HankD]

Sorry for my presumption of you being a Calvinist.

Lets say I was there. Is there anything I could have done to prevent Adam from sinning?. The answer is no. It's a matter of responsibility. How can a man be responsible for something he didn't do?. If there was no way for me to prevent it from happening. The Bible doesn't say I was there. The Bible doesn't say I'm responsible for anything someone else does. I'm not saying I'm sinless but sin is my own doing.Not Adam's

you were there just as Levi paid tithes to Abraham.

Hebrews 7
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

 

[loDebar]

We all here were born with fallen sinful natures, correct? Sinner by both birth and choice?

Sin is not physical, can't be birth

 

[loDebar]

you were there just as Levi paid tithes to Abraham.

Hebrews 7
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

but consider ,I am not of that lineage, nor my fathers,(perhaps). I am not obligated in Abraham

 

[HankD]

Because death is in the world. We all die because of it no one has immunity from death not even babies. If Adam had not sinned He would still be alive but he did sin and when he did he allowed death to enter the world.
MB

You said you die because you sin - if babies don't sin they wouldn't die, abortion would be impossible.

 

[HankD]

but consider ,I am not of that lineage, nor my fathers,(perhaps). I am not obligated in Abraham

You are to Adam. We ALL are. When he sinned you sinned.

 

[loDebar]

You said you die because you sin - if babies don't sin they wouldn't die, abortion would be impossible.

Separate physical death and spiritual death, Sin is spiritual

 

[MB]

you were there just as Levi paid tithes to Abraham.

Hebrews 7
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

It says father it does not say Adam. This gives no reason to assume we all were in Adam's loins. It's like saying we have always existed in some form or another.
MB.

 

[MB]

Separate physical death and spiritual death, Sin is spiritual

When we get down to it the Spirit never dies. It is with Christ in death or in hell. Hell would be pointless with out consciousness.
MB

 

[loDebar]

You are to Adam. We ALL are. When he sinned you sinned.

Sin is not physical, Jesus says we can sin if the body does nothing. If we make a mistake physically, or accidentally do something, even kill someone, it is not sin. But if we no nothing and intend to do evil it is sin. It is sin even if we should do good and don't. The body does nothing , yet we still can sin.