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Innocents Executed
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
Marcia
Active Member
The word "possibly" on this website is very crucial. There are no facts here to support the possible "new evidence." cited. People in prison, the media, and death penalty foes are always trying to claim such people are "innocent."
Casting doubt on their guilt is not enough. If there was such evidence, it would have come up in court. Death penalty prisoners have years and years of appeal to bring forth such evidence, and the jailhouse lawyers are always busy doing this.
If these statements on the site are true, such evidence would have been in the appeal and if strong enough, overturned the conviction.
As I have said on at least 2 other threads recently, evidence for death penalty convictions has to be very strong and clear. It is not easy to get the death penalty for someone convicted of murder.
Casting doubt on their guilt is not enough. If there was such evidence, it would have come up in court. Death penalty prisoners have years and years of appeal to bring forth such evidence, and the jailhouse lawyers are always busy doing this.
If these statements on the site are true, such evidence would have been in the appeal and if strong enough, overturned the conviction.
As I have said on at least 2 other threads recently, evidence for death penalty convictions has to be very strong and clear. It is not easy to get the death penalty for someone convicted of murder.
Marcia said:
You must realize that no one is going to reopen the cases and spend tons of money to prove an already executed person is innocent. Neither of us can prove their guilt or innocence. We do know that some people have come within minutes or a few hours of being executed and received a stay of execution and then been proven innocent. So it is logical to believe that some innocent people have been executed. Additonally evidence sometime is found after the person is already in jail. It is very difficult to have a case reopened even if compelling evidence is found. District Attorneys and the police do not like running the possibility of being proven wrong, or in being shown to have done a railroad job on somone.
As I have suggested to others read John Gresham's book, The Innocent Man.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Crabtownboy said:
Isn't Gresham a radical liberal?
Not to mention a Bible-denier.OldRegular said:
From: http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=cs_&page=NewsArticle&id=9693#cs1" (bold mine)
Novelist John Grisham Says Church Politicking Hurts Baptist Image
Best-selling author John Grisham has warned fellow Baptists that the church’s reputation is harmed when it gets too close to partisan politics.
Grisham, author of best-selling novels like The Firm, The Pelican Brief and The Appeal, is a long-time Baptist who was born in Arkansas and lived much of his life in Mississippi. He spoke Jan. 31 at a national gathering of Baptists in Georgia.
“Evangelical politics has become a big business, and the results are disastrous,” Grisham said. “When the church gets involved in politics, it alienates many people it is supposed to serve.”
Grisham reminded attendees, “As a church, our mission is to serve God through teaching, preaching and serving others. Our business should be that of the church and not the state.”
Grisham spoke at the “Celebration Of A New Baptist Covenant” in Atlanta, a three-day event that drew more than 15,000 Baptists from about 30 different denominations and associations. The event was organized in part by former President Jimmy Carter, who said he wants to see Baptists focus more on service to those in need and less on politics and theological bickering.
The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Baptist body in America, did not participate in the event. Since the early 1980s, the Convention has been under the control of fundamentalists who have aligned the denomination with the Republican Party.
Grisham, a member of University Baptist Church in Charlottesville, Va., urged Baptists to reject literalist interpretations of the Bible and said congregations should be open to diversity.
“God made all of us, loves us equally and expects us to love each other equally, without respect to gender, race, sexual orientation or other religions,” he said.
Other speakers echoed Grisham’s comments. J. Brent Walker, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, called on Baptists to embrace a universal standard: “I must not insist that government promote my religion if I don’t want government to promote somebody else’s religion, and I should not permit government to harm someone else’s religion if I don’t want government to harm my religion.”
Walker, a former Americans United trustee, noted that church-state separation has helped America flourish religiously without the deadly sectarian strife that has troubled other nations.
Organizers expressed an interest in continuing the dialogue. Carter said he had been approached by many people at the event who urged him to work toward forming a new Baptist organization. The Baptist bodies that attended the meeting represent more than 20 million people, making them larger than the Southern Baptist Convention, which claims about 16 million members.
“I think that where we go from here will be very important,” Carter said. “We don’t want this to be a wasted moment. We want this to be the initiation of a movement.”
Last edited by a moderator:
Thelast hanging in England was that of a 17 year old laddie. Some 30 years later he was proven innocent and the rightful killed sentenced to maxium sentence. The Leader of the Houses of Parliament sent a letter of apology to the lad's family....A letter..........of apology!
Cheers,
Jim
Cheers,
Jim
Marcia
Active Member
Crabtownboy said:
What about all those appeals? Why should one reopen the case when they had years to make appeals?
The fact that some might be executed who may be not guilty of that crime is a problem with our justice system and shows the fallibility of man, not necessarily an argument against the death penalty.
Some people, such as yourself, I assume, will be against the death penalty because of these flaws. However, knowing as I do how hard it is to get a death penalty case and then to get the death penalty given to someone, I cannot be against it for the reason that our system is not perfect.
If we wait until we get the perfect justice system to administer penalties...well, that day will never come.
Btw, I have been on both sides of the fence in re to the death penalty at least 2 different times (pro then con; pro then con; now leaning to pro).
A young lad was sentenced to hang once he reached his 18th birthday,,a legal age in Canada,,thankfully our Prime Minister changed his sentence to life in prison and did away with the death penalty in Canada.
This lad was eventually parolled. He assumed another name, raised a family and worked all his life without incidence.
One lady did not forget and fought for teh overturn of his conviction. False witness was given in court by the police, and other bits of evidence was overlooked and ignored.
Just last year he was excused from his conviction and our country declared him innocent..................He would have hanged! Some justice! Some freedom!
If only one innocent person dies, it is one too many.
Cheers,
Jim
This lad was eventually parolled. He assumed another name, raised a family and worked all his life without incidence.
One lady did not forget and fought for teh overturn of his conviction. False witness was given in court by the police, and other bits of evidence was overlooked and ignored.
Just last year he was excused from his conviction and our country declared him innocent..................He would have hanged! Some justice! Some freedom!
If only one innocent person dies, it is one too many.
Cheers,
Jim
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Yep...subversive ideas there!
JustChristian
New Member
The standard is guilty without reasonable doubt. Here's an example:Marcia said:
Carlos DeLuna Texas Conviction: 1983, Executed: 1989
A Chicago Tribune investigation released in 2006 revealed groundbreaking evidence that Texas may have executed an innocent man in 1989. The defendant, Carlos DeLuna, was executed for the fatal stabbing of Texas convenience store clerk Wanda Lopez in 1983. New evidence uncovered by reporters Maurice Possley and Steve Mills casts doubt on DeLuna’s guilt and points towards another man, Carlos Hernandez, who had a record of similar crimes and repeatedly confessed to the murder. A news piece aired on ABC’s "World News Tonight” also covered this story.
The new evidence casted strong doubt on DeLuna’s guilt. This is the fourth investigation in the past two years pointing to the execution of a probably innocent man. Similar questions have been raised in the cases of Cameron Todd Willingham and Ruben Cantu in Texas, and Larry Griffin in Missouri.
In the county in which I live, there has just been a multiple-murder conviction from a case in 2005 and the death penalty enacted in the last few days. One guy admitted to the murder, but was proved to be lying, and now the real (hopefully) murderer has been sentenced.
JustChristian said:
Can you source this ?
Nevermind, I will. And yer welcome :wavey:
Carlos DeLuna Texas Conviction: 1983, Executed: 1989
A Chicago Tribune investigation released in 2006 revealed groundbreaking evidence that Texas may have executed an innocent man in 1989. The defendant, Carlos DeLuna, was executed for the fatal stabbing of Texas convenience store clerk Wanda Lopez in 1983. New evidence uncovered by reporters Maurice Possley and Steve Mills casts doubt on DeLuna’s guilt and points towards another man, Carlos Hernandez, who had a record of similar crimes and repeatedly confessed to the murder. A news piece aired on ABC’s "World News Tonight” also covered this story.
The new evidence casted strong doubt on DeLuna’s guilt. This is the fourth investigation in the past two years pointing to the execution of a probably innocent man. Similar questions have been raised in the cases of Cameron Todd Willingham and Ruben Cantu in Texas, and Larry Griffin in Missouri.....
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1935
A Chicago Tribune investigation released in 2006 revealed groundbreaking evidence that Texas may have executed an innocent man in 1989. The defendant, Carlos DeLuna, was executed for the fatal stabbing of Texas convenience store clerk Wanda Lopez in 1983. New evidence uncovered by reporters Maurice Possley and Steve Mills casts doubt on DeLuna’s guilt and points towards another man, Carlos Hernandez, who had a record of similar crimes and repeatedly confessed to the murder. A news piece aired on ABC’s "World News Tonight” also covered this story.
The new evidence casted strong doubt on DeLuna’s guilt. This is the fourth investigation in the past two years pointing to the execution of a probably innocent man. Similar questions have been raised in the cases of Cameron Todd Willingham and Ruben Cantu in Texas, and Larry Griffin in Missouri.....
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1935
A few years ago, when your Mr. Bush was Governor of Texas, a woman was convicted for murder...No question about it. She went to jail and was serving time awaitiing her execution. Whilst there she became a believer and proved her conversion by her very actions, attitude and personal affairs around the prison. Helping people, witnessing and all those things we should be doing in our Christian lives. Her case came before your Christian, Mr. Bush and he wouldn't hear of it. She was executed!
Cheers,
Jim
Cheers,
Jim