Interracial Marriage

[Joe]

Sadly yes. It shouldn't be funny, but when you participate in these types of debates enough it grows on you. :thumbs:

I heard that saying maybe 3 or 4 years ago when I was thrown in jail in Sacramento County. I was the only white guy. I guess it rubbed me wrong.

 

[Brother Bob]

I heard that saying maybe 3 or 4 years ago when I was thrown in jail in Sacramento County. I was the only white guy. I guess it rubbed me wrong.

Yea, that rubbing in jail can be rough, I suppose..........

 

[blackbird]

Though I am still curious about something I've noticed over the years

I grew up in the Deep South ---- Baton Rouge, LA ---- attended a racially mixed high school --- here is what I remember noticing ----

a "self made" segregation ---- the blacks would stay to themselves as well as the whites

I remember at Football Pep rallies ---- in the gym there were bleacher sections where the Sophomores sat---another where the Juniors sat---and another were the Seniors sat

But yet over in the corner of one side of the bleachers ---- the blacks congregated for each Pep rally

I often was curious about that ---- since there was absolutely no rule for seating---- the blacks just kinda sorta "migrated" to a section of their own!! No one forced them to sit where they did--they were free to sit anywhere---but always sat there in the side corner by themselves

Then as the years passed by---I still noticed certain "self made" segregation of race ---- even years past the silly "appointed segregation"

I pastored in southwest Mississippi for a number of years and would on occastion attend high school football games at the local PUBLIC high school----I noticed again the "self made" segregation-----the whites sat in a certain section and the blacks in attendance sat in another section of the bleachers----again----nobody was FORCING anyone to sit in any certain section---it just happened

I pastor a Southern Baptist church in central Alabama----just north of the city of Birmingham----and we have blacks who attend our church----but here's what I noticed again----the same ole "self made" segregation----I noticed it at a Children's Ministry function just the other day----about 20 kids in attendance----15 white and 5 black----again----noone FORCED anyone to sit at any particular table during the function---it just happened---the whites sat at two tables and the blacks sat at another table to themselves

When I notice things like that that happen---I don't FORCE the white kids to mix with the blacks---I don't tell them, "You need to go over there and sit with those black kids!!! We can't have none of this segregation!!!!"---neither do I FORCE the blacks to "Go over there and sit with those white kids!!! Whats the matter with ya'll????"

There is not a cell of my body that cries prejudice and racist----but its something that I've noticed over the years---and wondered if anyone had any insight as to why the "self made" segregation????

 

[Gold Dragon]

People like to hang out with other people who are like themselves. This happens with regard to all sorts of socioeconomic factors (ie income bracket, lifestyle, life-stage, nationality, language, etc).

 

[Joe]

Yea, that rubbing in jail can be rough, I suppose..........

[inappropriate language removed]. Lucky I am not a shy guy

 

[rbell]

People like to hang out with other people who are like themselves. This happens with regard to all sorts of socioeconomic factors (ie income bracket, lifestyle, life-stage, nationality, language, etc).

And often, one factor will trump another. Several middle-class, racially diverse folks may hang out together...why? They are united by class (or fill in your own qualifier).

I can say that it is not so much an issue in my church (among the leadership); the church (and especially the youth group) is racially diverse, and has several interracial relationships.

Earlier, this was said:

I knew someone would mention this, so I don't blame you. This is an honest inquiry, because it has become somewhat of an issue lately in my life. I'm glad to see the discussion, though (as long as we stay on track). I want to hear the biblical bases on either side. I still hear a lot of opinions and ridicule.

There IS no Bibical basis for prohibiting interracial relationships/marriage. As I mentioned earlier, many (though not all) of the inter-marrying prohibitions on the Hebrews was regarding other Semitic peoples...this, folks, is intra-racial relationships...like an Texan marrying an anglo Canadian. Where there IS a prohibition, it is ALWAYS on Theological grounds...NOT racial. The Hebrews were told not to intermarry because the "other people" did not know God. That prohibition--not being "unequally yoked"--still exists for Christians today.

SFIC's interpretation is making Scripture say something it didn't say...by leaving out the theological half of the prohibition.

But as I said earlier...neither is their a SCRIPTURAL MANDATE to engage in interracial relationships. So, I revert to my much-used baptist phrase:

Priesthood of the Believer, Baby.

 

[corndogggy]

There is not a cell of my body that cries prejudice and racist----but its something that I've noticed over the years---and wondered if anyone had any insight as to why the "self made" segregation????

Let me guess... the dipsy white goody-goody cheerleaders all sat together too, right? How shocking.

It's the same reason that the good-ole boys that hunt and fish and drive pickup trucks and wear cowboy hats... hang out with other good-ole boys that hunt and fish and drive pickup trucks and wear cowboy hats. Has nothing to do with race. Next time you wonder why that is, do you really think that ol bubba the good ol boy would feel most comfortable hanging with the city folk wearing them nice designer clothes and driving BMW's and living in the nicer subdivisions? No, so they're probably not going to be seen together very much.

This is MUCH different than forcing black people to go to the back of the bus and stand up if a white person is boarding a crowded bus, and hundreds of other scenarios like that during segregation. Not sure why anybody would attempt to connect the two.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

Consider Exodus 12. When the children of Israel left Egypt in verse 38, a “mixed multitude” went out with them. In verse 43, God instructs them that no “stranger” shall eat of the Passover. God goes on to say in verse 44 that, “when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.” In other words, in order for a “stranger” or a “foreigner” to eat the Passover, he had to be circumcised. Once he was circumcised, God says that, “he shall be as one that is born in the land…One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Vs. 48, 49) When a stranger or a foreigner becomes “as one that is born in the land,” he then has access to all the rights and privileges of the native born Israelites. There is now “one law” that governs them both.

Opponents of interracial marriages are going to have a hard time explaining how Rahab the Canaanite, the direct descendant from Canaan, came to be listed in the genealogy of Jesus Christ. The answer is simple – Rahab, a descendant of Ham, married an Israelite named Salmon, a descendant of Shem. Salmon and Rahab were the parents of Boaz, David’s great-grandfather. Nowhere does God in His Word give us any indication that this union was disapproved of by God. We can only conclude that the particular race of people from which Rahab came was irrelevant to the fact that she trusted in the true God of the Israelites.

David, a descendant of Shem, was allowed by God to marry Bathsheba, a descendant of Cush (a Hamite). David was never criticized for marrying outside of his race. His sin was the sin of adultery and murder. In fact, God blessed the union and a child from this marriage was chosen by God to be the King of Israel and the wisest man who ever lived.

The only “biblical” segregation that I can find in the Word of God is that God’s people (Jews in the Old Testament – Christians in the New Testament) are to be “separate” from the world. In the Old Testament, it was segregation between Jews and Gentiles. Nowhere in the Word of God does it demand segregation between Gentile and Gentile.

In the New Testament, segregation is between the Christian and the world. Nowhere in the Word of God does it demand segregation between the children of God. Segregation between God’s people and those who are not God’s people must never be confused with segregation among different groups of God’s people. Separation among Christians is abhorrent to God. It is a tearing apart by men the body of Christ. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (I Corinthians 12:12-13)

 

[TCGreek]

Consider Exodus 12. When the children of Israel left Egypt in verse 38, a “mixed multitude” went out with them. In verse 43, God instructs them that no “stranger” shall eat of the Passover. God goes on to say in verse 44 that, “when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.” In other words, in order for a “stranger” or a “foreigner” to eat the Passover, he had to be circumcised. Once he was circumcised, God says that, “he shall be as one that is born in the land…One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.” (Vs. 48, 49) When a stranger or a foreigner becomes “as one that is born in the land,” he then has access to all the rights and privileges of the native born Israelites. There is now “one law” that governs them both.

Opponents of interracial marriages are going to have a hard time explaining how Rahab the Canaanite, the direct descendant from Canaan, came to be listed in the genealogy of Jesus Christ. The answer is simple – Rahab, a descendant of Ham, married an Israelite named Salmon, a descendant of Shem. Salmon and Rahab were the parents of Boaz, David’s great-grandfather. Nowhere does God in His Word give us any indication that this union was disapproved of by God. We can only conclude that the particular race of people from which Rahab came was irrelevant to the fact that she trusted in the true God of the Israelites.

David, a descendant of Shem, was allowed by God to marry Bathsheba, a descendant of Cush (a Hamite). David was never criticized for marrying outside of his race. His sin was the sin of adultery and murder. In fact, God blessed the union and a child from this marriage was chosen by God to be the King of Israel and the wisest man who ever lived.

The only “biblical” segregation that I can find in the Word of God is that God’s people (Jews in the Old Testament – Christians in the New Testament) are to be “separate” from the world. In the Old Testament, it was segregation between Jews and Gentiles. Nowhere in the Word of God does it demand segregation between Gentile and Gentile.

In the New Testament, segregation is between the Christian and the world. Nowhere in the Word of God does it demand segregation between the children of God. Segregation between God’s people and those who are not God’s people must never be confused with segregation among different groups of God’s people. Separation among Christians is abhorrent to God. It is a tearing apart by men the body of Christ. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (I Corinthians 12:12-13)

I can't fight against this analysis. I can only accept it as a careful biblical reasoning.

 

[blackbird]

Let me guess... the dipsy white goody-goody cheerleaders all sat together too, right? How shocking.

It's the same reason that the good-ole boys that hunt and fish and drive pickup trucks and wear cowboy hats... hang out with other good-ole boys that hunt and fish and drive pickup trucks and wear cowboy hats. Has nothing to do with race. Next time you wonder why that is, do you really think that ol bubba the good ol boy would feel most comfortable hanging with the city folk wearing them nice designer clothes and driving BMW's and living in the nicer subdivisions? No, so they're probably not going to be seen together very much.

This is MUCH different than forcing black people to go to the back of the bus and stand up if a white person is boarding a crowded bus, and hundreds of other scenarios like that during segregation. Not sure why anybody would attempt to connect the two.

Just something that I've noticed over the years----nothing to do with goody, goody white cheerleaders sitting together

 

[David Lamb]

Just who did Rahab marry?

Ruth? A Moabitess?


Our Lord's lineage has both of these non-Jewish people in it.

I respectfully disagree with you, SFIC.

I agree, and besides, Israel was not a race (at least not in the way we tend to use that word, that is, division of the human population of the world into groups on the basis of physical characteristics such as skin or hair colour), but a nation. To say that Israel was a separate race seems to me like saying that French people and English people, or Americans and Canadians, are different races.

 

[Bob Alkire]

Everyone should marry who God leads them to marry.

Now that is the problem with so many of us, do we or did we marry the one God wanted us to marry.
I too was around way before integration, but being young and a teenager at different times of that time, we worked together in the fields, played ball together, fished and hunted together and even ate at each others house, but went to different schools, we ate up front and they went to the back door, I just didn't understand that.

 

[EdSutton]

Don't ya know every good racist out there has a black friend stashed away for such occasions? ("Christian" racists are the worst with their black brothers and sisters in Christ who believe the same...)

I do not know about what the brother in Christ believed, but I know I was absolutely astounded one time, when a 'white' brother (and fairly close friend) in my own church, who often mentioned his 'black' fellow worker and brother in Christ, as they would get together at work to study and discuss Scripture during lunch, and had actually brought the individual to our church, where he sang for us, being very musically gifted, showed himself to be a "closet racist" when he was teaching a class I was involved in.

This happened once, when he was teaching, in our church training class. Another close friend of both of us, and a sister in Christ was sitting next to me, and had her jaw had dropped to somewhere around her knees, and I was became so upset over this misuse of the position and Scripture, that basically, I took him apart, then and there, over this garbage and hypocrisy. The end result was that he resigned as the class teacher, a week or so later, at the next business meeting of the church. I did and do consider him to be a friend and very dedicated brother in Christ. But he was dead wrong, here, Scripturally.

So I fully agree, here, that especially in the "closet version" manifestation, that
"Christian racists are the worst" kind!

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I too was around way before integration, but being young and a teenager at different times of that time, we worked together in the fields, played ball together, fished and hunted together and even ate at each others house, but went to different schools, we ate up front and they went to the back door, I just didn't understand that.

I'm not sure about the "way before integration" bit, as I am only at the still tender age of 59, but I grew up with and among a great deal of de facto segregation, and quite a bit of prejudice, as well. I would offer that varying amounts were present among many in my own family. Thankfully, my mother had little, if any, and my aunts, uncles and father had varying amounts, with varying degrees of it closeted. We were and are in a farming community, and the neighbors of two generations I grew up among were mostly small farmers, as well, as we. We all worked for one another, at varying times, then, and today, with the passing of most of them, including my own brother at 50, I have sort of become the remaining 'old dude' of us all, as the one other older, who is living, is now well in his 80s. There are two younger fellows who are doing some farming, here now, including my own nephew, and the grandson of the fellow who is in his 80s, adn mostly disabled. I am a bit limited as to physical condition, myself, but still mostly functional.

And we still all work together and for one another, at varying times. On yeah, most of us were/are "black" with about half that number were/are "white".

I kind of forget who has which skin color!

Ed

 

[Bob Alkire]

And we still all work together and for one another, at varying times. On yeah, most of us were/are "black" with about half that number were/are "white".
I kind of forget who has which skin color! Ed

If I take this correctly, color didn't make a differents to you is how it was with me, I could never understand it. We went to each others house and all the other stuff but couldn't eat together inside down town, never could understand that.

 

[Rubato 1]

I think that about covers what I was looking for. Thanks, everyone!:wavey:

I have one more thought along this line that I may use to begin a new thread...:type:

 

[Armchair Scholar]

Interracial Marriages

I'm frustrated:BangHead: by conflicting dogmatic statements about the pros and cons of interracial marriage. I know that some believe it is perfectly OK as long as both are saved; some hold that black/white is wrong, but that others are not necessarily; still another view I recently heard is a preacher saying that he sees sodomy and interracial marriage in a similar light. What bibilical basis is used for these respective opinions? keep in mind that this view is not cross-cultural, it is interracial.

There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that forbids interracial marriage, especially in the New Testament. There are some who would twist Scripture to make it appear to back their racial biases. This subject came up at my church recently. It seems that people have the most problem with black/white marriages than white/Asian marriages, etc. The black/white bias stems from a cultural problem that has plagued America for over a century. The cultural problem stems from a problem of the human heart called sin. Any pastor that says anything disparaging about blacks, whites, browns, reds, or yellows is a racist. God has made all human beings in His image and we have all descended from Adam with the same sin nature and the same need for Christ.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I am sorry to see that anyone who claims to be part of the Christian community is willing to be prejiduce against the color of the skin.

 

[canadyjd]

Why do you think God told the Jews not to marry outside of their nation? He did not command it just for people to shrug off like He did not mean it.

Joshua 23:12-13 .....A clear command not to marry outside the race. For when one does, the Word declares they will be a snare and trap to you and scourges in your sides.

sfic, the command not the marry from the other nations was based on religious beliefs, not on skin color.

The Hebrews were told not to marry from the other nations because those people would bring the worship of their gods (idols) into the land of Israel, and corrupt the worship of the LORD GOD. Those are the "snares and traps" spoken of.

The New Testament command is the same, not to be un-equally yoked with unbelievers. It has nothing to do with skin color, just religion.

Your understanding of this issue is clearly contrary to scripture.

peace to youraying:

 

[TCGreek]

sfic, the command not the marry from the other nations was based on religious beliefs, not on skin color.

The Hebrews were told not to marry from the other nations because those people would bring the worship of their gods (idols) into the land of Israel, and corrupt the worship of the LORD GOD. Those are the "snares and traps" spoken of.

The New Testament command is the same, not to be un-equally yoked with unbelievers. It has nothing to do with skin color, just religion.

Your understanding of this issue is clearly contrary to scripture.

peace to youraying:

Aren't these things you are arguing in Scripture?