Interracial relationships

[stubbornkelly]

I guess I'm just curious about what "out of their own" and other such phrases are supposed to mean, and why it's Biblically okay to group people into neat little groups based on skin color, when the only mandate we're given is to not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. What is "our own?" My understanding is that, for Christians, "our own" is other Christians, period.


I certainly agree that we can have personal preferences as to what kinds of people we find physically attractive, and that there's nothing wrong with that. I like men who are taller than I, and I like green eyes. No big deal. But I don't say that I find brown eyed men unattractive, because that's fine, too. Green eyes is just a preference.

I guess I'm just not seeing any reasoning being given here. The objectionable statements have not been made as personal preferences for attractiveness, but as general statements about the "kinds" of people who are appropriate or inappropriate to date. That's what I find appalling. "Don't bring one home?" Why not? Is there something you find objectionable about people not of your skin tone and region of origin? Do some of you people work to ensure that your children will only date and marry those who are within a few shades of their own flesh color? I mean, really.

The "compromising standards" bit is the most disgusting thing I've heard in a while. It more than implies that you believe people outside your race, christfollower, are beneath you. That's racism, right there in front of you.

I'm baffled by all of this. Absolutely baffled.

 

[Gib]

If I say I'm going to marry within my own or stay with my own, then who is "my own?" Is what I consider "my own race" absolutely pure with no combining with another race? Where do I trace that race back to? The tower of babel, Noah, Adam & Eve?

 

[just-want-peace]

1.Second Best?

2.Strong Standards?

3.I'm worth more than THAT?

4.And my kids will be TAUGHT THAT WAY as well?

5.Sounds like this is about more than personal preferences to me!

Preston lives 200 years from Atlanta

Numbering added by me!!

Obviously y'all read his comments through different colored glasses than me!

1. To me all he's saying is that ANYTHING less that what God has planned is second best
2. All I see here is that he expects to "stand firm" until God gives specific direction
3. If y'all don't agree with this, then you don't have much faith in what Christ did for you! We, each and everyone , are worth more than that. What is "THAT"? My take from his post is to settle for less than what God has planned for you! Did I mis-interpret the meaninbg?
4. I have ambivalent feelings on this one, simply because this was my position some years ago! You must remember that God has not finished with ALL of us, so we who are still a work in progress must depend on those who've "attained" perfection not to crack the whip too hard & often; we're still growing!!
5. Well said! So long as he dosen't quote scripture to justify, why do y'all feel that you have to take him on as a personal "Rejuvination Project"?

Most attitudes DO NOT change overnight, nor do we give up old prejudices overnight. Sure, God does sometimes zap the old nature out, but it's not the norm. For instance when I quit smoking, not once have I had the desire for a cigarette, and that's been some 20 years ago. Ive known others who've said they wanted one a yard long after the same period.

Bottom line, if he were trying to quote scripture to further his position, then the condemnation would be deserved, but just stating a preference, or belief if you will, is no excuse for crawling all over him. At least he's honest!

 

[Gib]

I smoked for several years. It was hard to quit and harder to stay that way. There is definte difference between smoking and being prejudice.

If I'm prejudice, I don't think I'm wrong and that's what I believe. I believe in it so much that I will be willing to go to bat for it. But as a smoker, I knew that it was bad for my health. I continued to smoke even though I knew cancer of the lungs took the lives my 2 grandfathers and a grandmother.

 

[ChurchBoy]

Originally posted by Helen:
ChurchBoy....

please

could you spell Helen with just one 'L'?



Thank you...

It's changed! My deepest apologies!

 

[dianetavegia]

Johnv said:

Racism doesn't involve hating a person because of race, it involves treating someone differently due to their race. Jesus is no respector of persons in regards to race, and neither should we be.

Would it be okay to instruct children that they're not allowed to date a person because of the color of their eyes? Or their hair? Or their height? Or their weight? These are all forms of bigotry. Racism is the worst form of bigotry.

Agreed! What if I had told our daughter she couldn't date her now husband because he's too 'fat' or our oldest son that he couldn't marry his now wife because she has OCD? Again, judging on things that are just 'things' and showing prejudice.

just-want-peace... I pointed out that Christfollwer55 lives 200 years from Atlanta because I live just a few miles from he and Preacher Nathan. I KNOW the prejudice in our towns. The preacher at the last church where we were members told me, as VBS director, that if any little ni@@ers showed up that I didn't have to send them away but they sure were not going to join HIS church. When I protested, he told me he'd drive me to "Little Africa" and I could hand out tracts to the prostitutes and drug addicts and see how I felt about the ni@@ers after that. We left that church right after VBS.

I also live 200 years from Atlanta even tho many of my neighbors are lovely black families.

Diane

 

[just-want-peace]

just-want-peace... I pointed out that Christfollwer55 lives 200 years from Atlanta because I live just a few miles from he and Preacher Nathan. I KNOW the prejudice in our towns. The preacher at the last church where we were members told me, as VBS director, that if any little ni@@ers showed up that I didn't have to send them away but they sure were not going to join HIS church. When I protested, he told me he'd drive me to "Little Africa" and I could hand out tracts to the prostitutes and drug addicts and see how I felt about the ni@@ers after that. We left that church right after VBS.

O K, Diane, I see where you're coming from now, and appreciate your stand. I am not able to see what you do, and have only what's posted to go by.
Therefore, I stand by my comments as far as the "posted contents" are concerned, but will cede to you as having first hand knowledge that's not available to me.
I hope you will back off and read the posts as if you had no knowledge of the situation, and understand where I'm coming from in defense of Christfollwer55.
At this point I gracefully bow out of this thread!

 

[BROARMSTRONG]

MR. DAVID DANIELS.
THANKYOU FOR YOUR CONDEMNATION AND INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS AS FAR AS MY SHAMEFUL IDEALS AND LACK OF KNOWLEDGE AS A PREACHER. YOUR SUDDEN AND UNJUSTIFIED ATTACK ON MY PERSON AND POSITION TO ME WAS CERTAINLY UNCALLED FOR,AS FAR AS MY OPINION CONSIDERS IT...BUT THEN MY OPINION APPARENTLY ISN'T ALLOWED.BUT JUST FOR THE RECORD...I AM QUITE STUDIED IN THE HOLY TEXT...I HOLD A MASTERS IN THEOLOGY,DR.BIBLICAL STUDIES,DR.OF MINISTRY,DR.OF DIVINITY,AND A P.HD,AS WELL AS CHAPLAINCY TRAINING,ALONG WITH 20 YEARS IN THE MINISTRY...AND YES I HAVE MUCH SCRIPTURE TO BACK UP WHAT I SAY...BUT YOU CAN'T MAKE ANYONE BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE WHEN THERE MIND IS MADE UP,AND THAT ALSO APPLIES TO MYSELF,I BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE WHETHER YOU BELIEVE I'M RIGHT OR NOT...I ALREADY HAVE STATED I CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE AND WILL GIVE ANYBODY ELSE THE SAME HONOR AND PRIVELEDGE...I HOPE YOU CAN DO THE SAME FOR ME.

 

[LauraB]

[ May 01, 2003, 12:12 AM: Message edited by: LauraB ]

 

[stubbornkelly]

It will never end, but don't take what I have said and twist it just to have an opinion, and to be like everyone else to agree with them.

I don't think I've done so, but clearly you think otherwise. I can't help that. I've read all of what you've written, and I'm hearing the standard, "I can't be racist, I have black friends!" party line, and comments like "Do I teach my kids to be racist? No I do not," and "I teach them not to date outside of their own," back to back.

I certainly recognize that you said you wouldn't disown a child if he or she came home with someone not of your color, but you also said you've told them that they'd "better not bring one home." I don't understand how you can say and mean both.

I just don't understand why a person's skin tone would be a problem. Where are you (anyone who has this view) getting the idea of "your own?" Christians are Christians, and there's no Biblical reason to split Christians into subcategories based on what we look like.

For those who just can't explain why they feel the way they do, I urge you to pray about it and examine what has brought you to the conclusions you've made. "Just a feeling" is a dangerous explanation.

I belive what I belive.

But you can't give a reason why . . .

 

[Bartholomew]

Hi,

We had a similar discussion to this one a few months ago. My point was simple, but nobody answered it properly: God divided the nations at Babel, and interNATIONAL (not just 'racial') marriages undo this division. If everyone married someone of a different nationality, the world's nation states would be undermined, and God's division undone (since nations are simply collections of similarly-realted people). And since it cannot be wrong for lots of people to do something, and yet OK for individuals to do it, it must be wrong.

Where does the Bible condemn international marriage? Nowhere. But where does it condemn polygomy? Nowhere - but do you think that makes it OK? Polygomy undermines God's principles at creation; international marriage undermines his principles at Babel. Simple.

 

[Mitsy]

I believe most people date those whom they are the most comfortable with regardless of which ethnic group they're in. There will ALWAYS be people who are prejudiced and discriminate against who you decide to date and marry.

But, I was much more hurt when I felt like I could ONLY date church-going "born-again" guys. Heaven forbid if they were Catholic.

So prejudice is out there on many levels. It isn't just limited to the ethnic issue. It's hard enough to find anyone decent, let alone the cookie-cutter image of what many church-going people THINK you should be dating. Although I would not choose to date someone outside my own ethnic group, I support those who decide to do so. I could not take the backlash myself though.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Bartholomew:
Hi,

We had a similar discussion to this one a few months ago. My point was simple, but nobody answered it properly: God divided the nations at Babel, and interNATIONAL (not just 'racial') marriages undo this division. If everyone married someone of a different nationality, the world's nation states would be undermined, and God's division undone (since nations are simply collections of similarly-realted people). And since it cannot be wrong for lots of people to do something, and yet OK for individuals to do it, it must be wrong.

I must have missed this discussion… I want to give your assertion some serious consideration before I issue a response, but here’s two questions that immediately spring to mind:

1.) The United States is a political nation that is very ethnically diverse. For those of us who are the products of this mixing of the nations (my mother’s family is very strongly and “purely” Austrian, but my father’s side is full of “white” mutts. How in the world can my future children hope not to somehow “mix the nations”? It seems to me that this would be an impossible command to keep for those of us who are already "mixed".

2.) What do you do with Paul’s teaching that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek?

 

[Bartholomew]

Hi Baptist Believer,

Thanks for not dismissing my suggestion right away. I'll try to answer your thoughts:

Originally posted by Baptist Believer:
1.) The United States is a political nation that is very ethnically diverse. For those of us who are the products of this mixing of the nations (my mother’s family is very strongly and “purely” Austrian, but my father’s side is full of “white” mutts. How in the world can my future children hope not to somehow “mix the nations”? It seems to me that this would be an impossible command to keep for those of us who are already "mixed".

This is one of the problems of large-scale immigration - it certianly mixes the nations! Firstly I'd note that Austrians and those of Anglo-saxon descent are VERY much more closely related than are Austrians and, for example, Nigerians or Chinese. Secondly, I'd note that there isn't such a big problem there anyway, because you're all part of the same nation - the USA.

2.) What do you do with Paul’s teaching that in Christ there is no Jew or Greek?

The same thing I do with his teaching that there is no male or female (Gal 3:26-28):

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Surely he's saying that whether Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, that everyone in Christ is saved? If he means nationality means nothing, then we'd better not fight in any wars or have a passport or anything like that - role on one-world government! And to be consistent, you couldn't have marriage anyway, because there's no male or female!

Your friend and brother,

Bartholomew

 

[Gib]

There was division at the tower of babel. For those who want to stay with their "own race", (I'm not disputing your reason) which race are you from. When the Lord scattered them, where did your "own" end up? Is your bloodline pure all the way back to babel? Or is your "own" what you perceive yourself to be now?

 

[Johnv]

I also never said I would disown my children if they did date a person of different color or ethnic group, if that's who they are going to choose, then so be it. I personally would like to see them with someone of the same beliefs that we have, and of the same family origin.

But that's not what you said. You said:
I do not believe in interrcial relationships. I believe we should all stick with our own.

You further said that you teach your children not to date interracially, and that if your children were in an interracial relationship, you'd be disappointed:
I teach them not to date outside of their own... If they genuinely fall in love with a person of the opposite race, and they treated them good, then what could I do.

You also equate interracial relationships to sin:
Just like it is a sin for a christian to marry an unsaved person. It is not right. Christians are urged to stick with their own kind.

It really is a shame that alot of the people are afraid to voice their own opinions for fear of being bashed like I was. I don't care what any one of you think about me. I belive what I belive.

Even if what you believe is clearly unbiblical? Even there, it's one thing for you to have personal prejudices (we all have them), but it's biblically inappropriate to pass those on to your children as being acceptible.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Originally posted by Bartholomew:
Thanks for not dismissing my suggestion right away.

And I'm not ignoring you either. I've been thinking about your interpretation of the Tower of Babel situation and I have some definite opinions on the matter. Unfortunately I had to work very late this evening and must be back at work well before sunrise tomorrow so I won't have time to respond with an appropriate answer immediately. I hope to have a full and detailed response for you in about 24 hours.

As a preview, I find that I do not as yet agree with your analysis, but the study has been very interesting and I have some thoughts I would like you, and others, to comment upon. I also have a few followup questions for you. I believe all of us may get a new perspective on the story.

Thanks!

 

[Bartholomew]

Originally posted by Gib:
There was division at the tower of babel. For those who want to stay with their "own race", (I'm not disputing your reason) which race are you from.

I'm English!

When the Lord scattered them, where did your "own" end up?

Initially northern Germany. It then invaded the Island of Britannia, and settled the Southern and Eastern parts - a place now called "England".

Is your bloodline pure all the way back to babel?

I have no idea.

Or is your "own" what you perceive yourself to be now?

My "own" is my nation - the United Kigndom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

 

[Jonathan]

I AM QUITE STUDIED IN THE HOLY TEXT...I HOLD A MASTERS IN THEOLOGY,DR.BIBLICAL STUDIES,DR.OF MINISTRY,DR.OF DIVINITY,AND A P.HD,AS WELL AS CHAPLAINCY TRAINING,ALONG WITH 20 YEARS IN THE MINISTRY...

Wow. Can you give us a bit more information on this? Where and when did you get those degrees? One masters and four doctorates? I'm impressed.

 

[Willow 2]

I guess i will be judged like the rest, But i have my opinion also, as everyone does, & for those that try to push there opinion, that does not make you anymore right then the other.

We all have are opinions, And i agree with Christine, I would not want to put my family threw all the racial commites.

And i also have the same question as Broarmstrong
does, Why is there a Male & Female in every race
I feel there was a reason for that or should i say in ever color, What was Gods reason for that?

And i also agree with Christfollower55, I donot believe we should mixes.

I believe my reason is, this was how i was raised to believe. But we did have black people as friends & other race of people as friends, My family socialized with black people all the time, One of my best friends is a black person, But i still myself donot believe in mix marriages
& i guess i always will feel this way, & like i also said my other reason i believe i feel like i do, is why did God make a Male & Female in ever race & color, I believe He done this for a reason.

And i also agree with Just-want-peace, We all have are opinions, & we always will. This reminds
me of a gentalman saying from my church, He has a saying let's agree that we disagree & leave it at that.

I agree we all have are thoughts & opinions, and you cannot make others believe the way you believe. & you surely can't make someone explain why they feel a certain way.

I know we all have are own opinions, & just because the most believe a certain way does not make that group anymore in the right then the next with the fewer people, I'm not saying we are anymore right then you all are, But you can't force your opinion on someone & say it's right & they are wrong....In my opinion thats wrong....God loves us all..