Interview With Billy Graham's Grandson: Why Has America Soured Toward Evangelicals?

[Zaac]

Tchividjian suggested that Evangelicals wishing to positively respond to the negative feedback of the survey might emulate his grandfather.

"He has told me that the biggest mistakes he made early on his ministry, in the '50s and early '60s, was speaking too much about cultural and political issues at his evangelistic crusades. He says that's one of his big regrets from his early years in ministry," said Tchividjian.

The turning point for Graham came after the Watergate scandal, noted Tchividjian.

He had sort of had, an a-hah moment when he realized 'I have particular calling as an evangelist and that is to preach the Gospel to human beings, regardless of whether they're red, yellow, black, white, rich, poor, Democrat, Republican, gay, straight, didn't matter. My job is to preach the Gospel to humans.'"

After his realization, Graham "stopped endorsing particular candidates publicly because he knew the moment he endorsed the candidate of one particular party that the people on the other side of the aisle wouldn't listen to what he had to say. He wanted very much to be a bridge builder and the way he did that was to stay above the fray and sticking to his calling."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/i...as-america-soured-toward-evangelicals-123489/

 

[carpro]

Nasty, unloving attitudes don't translate well with most people either.

You should know.

Neither do holier than thou, judgmental attitudes.

 

[carpro]

For Christians who claimed that their negative image was a consequence of them speaking an unpopular truth, Tchividjian cautioned against automatically arriving at this conclusion.

"If people are going to stumble over what we say, it's going to be because we're called to speak the Gospel which Paul says is a stumbling block. But I can't go out there and be a jerk and align myself with a political party or a candidate and get crucified on either the right or the left and just say "I'm just a martyr for the truth." No, you're not even speaking the truth that God has called you to speak first and foremost.":applause::applause:

Claiming to be a martyr for the truth is exactly what you do.

One is supposed to be a christian to be on this board. If you need to hear the gospel message, please let us know you are here under false pretenses.

Personally, I have never said one way or the other what party I am in. To my knowledge, neither have you.

This is a board about politics. If you don't want to claim sides, don't. But if you really don't want anyone here to know what your politics are , don't post at all.

It's easy to tell you're a true blue liberal, which closely aligns you with the democrat party. It's easy to tell I'm a conservative, which could align me with any one of three parties that claim to be conservative.

But to you, my political leanings make me something less than a Christian. Your posts also leave a lot to be desired in a Christian. You're judgmental with a holier than thou attitude, More than willing to question and condemn our behavior, but you bristle like a porcupine when yours is questioned or condemned. When it is, you turn nasty in a heartbeat.

You are a poor one to be telling anyone else how to behave. Clean up your own house. Then get back with us on how to act.

 

[Zaac]

One is supposed to be a christian to be on this board. If you need to hear the gospel message, please let us know you are here under false pretenses.

Personally, I have never said one way or the other what party I am in. To my knowledge, neither have you.

This is a board about politics. If you don't want to claim sides, don't. But if you really don't want anyone here to know what your politics are , don't post at all.

It's easy to tell you're a true blue liberal, which closely aligns you with the democrat party. It's easy to tell I'm a conservative, which could align me with any one of three parties that claim to be conservative.

But to you, my political leanings make me something less than a Christian. Your posts leave a lot to be desired in a Christian. You're judgemental with a holier than thou attitude, More than willing to question our behavior, but you bristle like a porcupine when yours is questioned . When it is, you turn nasty in a heartbeat.

You are a poor one to be telling anyone else how to behave. Clean up your own house. Then get back with us on how to act.

Dude I could care less about your political affiliation. :laugh: Your nasty attitude towards anyone who doesn't share your political POV is what I've mentioned.

The Board is supposed to be a motley of Christians representing the cause of Christ. It's obvious that some haven't figured that out because they're blinded by their politics.

 

[carpro]

Dude I could care less about your political affiliation. :laugh: Your nasty attitude towards anyone who doesn't share your political POV is what I've mentioned.

The Board is supposed to be a motley of Christians representing the cause of Christ. It's obvious that some haven't figured that out because they're blinded by their politics.

Back atcha.

 

[Zaac]

Back atcha.

Ditto.

 

[carpro]

Ditto.

Dittoing yourself is redundant, but

Glad you agree.

From what I have observed, you are what you despise the most. Clean up your own house.

 

[Zaac]

Glad you agree.

From what I have observed, you are what you despise the most. Clean up your own house.

You may want to borrow these if that's what you've observed.

 

[church mouse guy]

The issue is more complex than speaking on cultural/social issues. The end of the world brings rejection of Jesus and apostasy--we are seeing that now. Also, burning theological issues cannot even be debated with civility so there can be no discarding of false notions. On social issues, there is no compromise among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists about allowing abortion for rape and incest--I think that we can drop the life of the mother because that is almost academic. I mention this as an example of the division within Evangelical circles on social issues.

The most noted case of the inability to intellectually discuss doctrine probably involves Des Ford, who was invited by his denomination to review doctrine and then was expelled for his conclusions.

http://goodnewsunlimited.org/bioford.cfm

I doubt if there can ever be a debate on dispensationalism between Evangelicals and the remnant in the mainline denominations because Evangelicals become angry about dispensationalism if you ask me.

I think that you have to consider also that the American mind is now a closed mind and this has even spilled over into scientific research, which is now politicized. If you think that America can be restored (and I do), you still have to realize that it is an uphill battle and the victory may only be temporary. The old America is still gone forever and the new generation really never knew it.

 

[Zaac]

The issue is more complex than speaking on cultural/social issues. The end of the world brings rejection of Jesus and apostasy--we are seeing that now. Also, burning theological issues cannot even be debated with civility so there can be no discarding of false notions. On social issues, there is no compromise among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists about allowing abortion for rape and incest--I think that we can drop the life of the mother because that is almost academic. I mention this as an example of the division within Evangelical circles on social issues.

The most noted case of the inability to intellectually discuss doctrine probably involves Des Ford, who was invited by his denomination to review doctrine and then was expelled for his conclusions.

http://goodnewsunlimited.org/bioford.cfm

I doubt if there can ever be a debate on dispensationalism between Evangelicals and the remnant in the mainline denominations because Evangelicals become angry about dispensationalism if you ask me.

I think that you have to consider also that the American mind is now a closed mind and this has even spilled over into scientific research, which is now politicized. If you think that America can be restored (and I do), you still have to realize that it is an uphill battle and the victory may only be temporary. The old America is still gone forever and the new generation really never knew it.

Preach the Gospel. If Christians want to get together and talk politics and not put it out for public consumption, go for it.

But as it stands Tchividjian is correct. The cause of Christ has been usurped by the cause of political parties..

None of that stuff is gonna save anyone. Too many folks in the church care more about winning the argument than they do about winning the soul.

The church needs to remember it's first love and recognize that we weren't commissioned to save a nation, our retirement portfolios or our grandkids inheritance.

We were commissioned to make disciples.

We're entirely too worldly minded and about stuff that has ZERO eternal value.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

America has "soured" on evangelicals? That would imply they ever had any positive feelings for us in the first place, and I don't think that has ever been the case. Obviously there has always been an general respect for Billy Graham, but even he has had his vocal detractors, from both sides of the fence.

J.C. Ryle, the first Anglican bishop of Liverpool, wrote over 125 years ago that we shouldn't be surprised at the enmity toward God, and His Son Jesus Christ.

J.C. Ryle: The Gospel of Matthewhttp://www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/who-is-jesus/is-jesus-divisive.htmlhttp://www.jesus.org/is-jesus-god/who-is-jesus/is-jesus-divisive.html

In the first place, Jesus tells us to remember that His gospel will not cause peace and agreement wherever it comes. "I didn't come to send peace, but a sword" (Matthew 10:34). The object of His first coming on earth was not to set up a millennial kingdom in which all would be of one mind, but to bring in the gospel, which would lead to strife and divisions. We have no right to be surprised, if we see this continually fulfilled. We are not to think it strange if the gospel divides families and causes estrangement between the nearest relations. It is sure to do so in many cases because of the deep corruption of the heart.

There is a deep truth in all this, which is constantly forgotten and overlooked. Many talk vaguely about unity, harmony, and peace in the Church, as if they were things that we ought always to expect, and for the sake of which everything ought to be sacrificed. Such people would do well to remember the words of our Lord. No doubt unity and peace are mighty blessings. We ought to seek them, pray for them, and give up everything in order to obtain them, excepting truth and a good conscience. But it is an idle dream to suppose that the churches of Christ will enjoy much of unity and peace before the millennium comes.

In the second place, our Lord tells us that true Christians must expect trouble in this world. Whether we are ministers or hearers, whether we teach or are taught, it makes little difference. We must carry "a cross." We must be content to lose even life itself for Christ's sake. We must submit to the loss of man's favor, we must endure hardships, we must deny ourselves in many things, or we shall never reach heaven at last. So long as the world, the devil, and our own hearts, are what they are, these things must be so.

Why should we expect peace when the Word divides?

Secondly, our political views are what get emphasized by a biased media. They hear the first part of any given message we may put out there regarding abortion, homosexual behavior, freedom of speech and religion, but do nothing to report how we balance our views on the word of God. We may have a very well reasoned, biblical response to someone. All the media will report is the political side of our presentation.

We have to find a way to better control the message so it is heard in its entirety.

 

[church mouse guy]

Preach the Gospel. If Christians want to get together and talk politics and not put it out for public consumption, go for it.

But as it stands Tchividjian is correct. The cause of Christ has been usurped by the cause of political parties..

None of that stuff is gonna save anyone. Too many folks in the church care more about winning the argument than they do about winning the soul.

The church needs to remember it's first love and recognize that we weren't commissioned to save a nation, our retirement portfolios or our grandkids inheritance.

We were commissioned to make disciples.

We're entirely too worldly minded and about stuff that has ZERO eternal value.

I know that you are not serious about what you post because you don't bother to define terms so we don't know exactly what you are talking about, but as everyone knows as the world comes to an end the number of Christians will become smaller and smaller so I really don't know what you are talking about because the world is coming to an end.

 

[carpro]

Another point of view:

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMN...ue_State_of_American_Evangelicals_in_2011.htm

Those who argue that a new American landscape is emerging–one in which the conservative evangelicalism of the past few decades is losing numbers and influence–are simply ignoring the data.”

... as the culture has adopted more unbiblical views regarding pluralism, sexuality, honesty, etc., the majority of evangelical church members have adapted to accept the new cultural positions rather than stand firm in the truth taught by Christ and his apostles. In other words, they have been taken “captive by the empty deception and philosophy according to the traditions of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ”

We find in the New Testament that it is clearly a strategy of Satan to offer watered-down and distorted views of what it means to live in Christ as a way to prevent Christians from bringing more people into eternal life through faith in Jesus. Clearly, from the data we have looked at for American evangelicals, this strategy is having a powerful effect in America today.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

That seems awfully random. Are you accusing some here of not believing in or preaching on the resurrection? Or Tullian Tchividjian who is quoted in the OP?

Because I never see t mentioned in these "we gotta be better Christians" thread.

Mr. Graham sure didn't mention it.

Liberals seem to have a problem preaching the resurrection.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

From what I have observed, you are what you despise the most. Clean up your own house.

Excellent, Carpro.

 

[Zaac]

I know that you are not serious about what you post because you don't bother to define terms so we don't know exactly what you are talking about, but as everyone knows as the world comes to an end the number of Christians will become smaller and smaller so I really don't know what you are talking about because the world is coming to an end.

Why would I not be serious? What term would you like defined?

And where does Scripture say that the numbers will get smaller and smaller?

 

[Zaac]

Another point of view:

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNs...ls_in_2011.htm

Those who argue that a new American landscape is emerging–one in which the conservative evangelicalism of the past few decades is losing numbers and influence–are simply ignoring the data.”

... as the culture has adopted more unbiblical views regarding pluralism, sexuality, honesty, etc., the majority of evangelical church members have adapted to accept the new cultural positions rather than stand firm in the truth taught by Christ and his apostles. In other words, they have been taken “captive by the empty deception and philosophy according to the traditions of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ”

We find in the New Testament that it is clearly a strategy of Satan to offer watered-down and distorted views of what it means to live in Christ as a way to prevent Christians from bringing more people into eternal life through faith in Jesus. Clearly, from the data we have looked at for American evangelicals, this strategy is having a powerful effect in America today.

That's completely different from what he addressed. He hasn't expressed that what the Bible says on those things should not be adhered to.

He said:

"The core message of the Christian faith has been lost in the public sector because what we are primarily known for is our political ideology or opinion," Tchividjian told The Christian Post.

and

If people are going to stumble over what we say, it's going to be because we're called to speak the Gospel which Paul says is a stumbling block. But I can't go out there and be a jerk and align myself with a political party or a candidate and get crucified on either the right or the left and just say "I'm just a martyr for the truth." No, you're not even speaking the truth that God has called you to speak first and foremost.

First and foremost , we've been commissioned to do ONE thing. The evangelical church has CHOSEN to do something else because individuals seem to have adopted the belief that politics is the answer over Jesus. And you may say otherwise and that no one has done that, but the proof is in the pudding.

The church today is known for its political stances and not for loving folks and preaching the Gospel and pointing them to Christ.

Everything we stand for we tie right back into conservative this or liberal that and our politics. Where is the Church that Jesus left hiding?

Where is the church that's more concerned with eternity than it is with the here and now?

 

[carpro]

First and foremost , we've been commissioned to do ONE thing. The evangelical church has CHOSEN to do something else because individuals seem to have adopted the belief that politics is the answer over Jesus. And you may say otherwise and that no one has done that, but the proof is in the pudding.

The church today is known for its political stances and not for loving folks and preaching the Gospel and pointing them to Christ.

Everything we stand for we tie right back into conservative this or liberal that and our politics. Where is the Church that Jesus left hiding?

Where is the church that's more concerned with eternity than it is with the here and now?

All you have is an opinion. The data says otherwise. I fully expect you to reject the facts.

The real reason people don't want to hear the gospel has nothing at all to do with politics. It is just as I said. They reject the one WAY, in favor of the easy way. Genuine evangelical preachers preach the one WAY.

So go ahead and restate your opinion. That's all you have. Even your source is all about his opinion...which just happens to match yours.

By rejecting the truth that is based on facts, rather than feelings, you are what you say you hate the most.

...as the culture has adopted more unbiblical views regarding pluralism, sexuality, honesty, etc., the majority of evangelical church members have adapted to accept the new cultural positions rather than stand firm in the truth taught by Christ and his apostles. In other words, they have been taken “captive by the empty deception and philosophy according to the traditions of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ”

 

[Zaac]

All you have is an opinion. The data says otherwise. I fully expect you to reject the facts.

I could care less about your facts. I deal with people and the TRUTH

The real reason people don't want to hear the gospel has nothing at all to do with politics. It is just as I said. They reject the one WAY, in favor of the easy way. Genuine evangelical preachers preach the one WAY.

I didn't disagree with that. You're talking preachers. I'm talking about the preachers and a lot of the folks in the evangelical church.

Our proliferation of politics in the pulpit and throughout the evangelical church has been and continues to be a major stumbling block for unbelievers.

Sure they reject the way. But who would desire something that so many Christians have made look so distasteful? If the Christian God makes some of you as mean and nasty and unloving as you appear with your politics, it's quite clear why so many unbelievers summarily dismiss us.

The evangelical church, just as Tchividjian said, has aligned itself with a political party and is seen as representing that party and not Jesus Christ.

That's sad.

 

[RLBosley]

Because I never see t mentioned in these "we gotta be better Christians" thread.

Mr. Graham sure didn't mention it.

Liberals seem to have a problem preaching the resurrection.

We rarely ever see the resurrection discussed in the Cal/Arm threads either or threads on a dozen other topics. So what?

I still don't understand what that has to do with this thread though. It seemed like you were accusing either Tullian in the OP of being not preaching the resurrection or accusing Zaac of it.