Interview With Billy Graham's Grandson: Why Has America Soured Toward Evangelicals?

[church mouse guy]

Why would I not be serious? What term would you like defined?

And where does Scripture say that the numbers will get smaller and smaller?

I think that you just throw around terms without making clear what you mean. But to answer your question about the number of Christians becoming smaller and smaller:


2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

[Bro. Curtis]

We rarely ever see the resurrection discussed in the Cal/Arm threads either or threads on a dozen other topics. So what?

Baloney. That is a hoot. You obviously don't read there, very much.

I still don't understand what that has to do with this thread though. It seemed like you were accusing either Tullian in the OP of being not preaching the resurrection or accusing Zaac of it.

I'm not going to explain every one of my posts, to you.

 

[RLBosley]

Baloney. That is a hoot. You obviously don't read there, very much.

I'm not going to explain every one of my posts, to you.

I try to be nice and understand what you are saying and this is what I get...

 

[poncho]

Maybe because the majority claiming to be evangelicals are liars and abusers out to make a profit like everyone else, and they they use their fake religiosity to do so. Work hand in hand with the government and pretend they are working for heaven.
Baptists are not immune: https://taggs.hhs.gov/RecipInfo.CFM?SelEin=LCYqWys/PEZKQyxHX1NKOEsK

And that's putting it nicely.

 

[Zaac]

I think that you just throw around terms without making clear what you mean. But to answer your question about the number of Christians becoming smaller and smaller:


2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That doesn't say that the number of Christians becomes smaller.

 

[church mouse guy]

That doesn't say that the number of Christians becomes smaller.

It says that there will be a falling away--that means that people will drop out of Christianity and apostasy will grow. Falling away means a apostasy. Growing apostasy means that the world is coming to an end.

Here are the verses again:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 (KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Falling away is defined in the verse as apostasy by Family Bible Notes, Peoples New Testament Commentary, and Scofield--all conservative sources.

Matthew Henry also says that falling away means apostasy:

In these words the apostle confutes the error against which he had cautioned them, and gives the reasons why they should not expect the coming of Christ as just at hand. There were several events previous to the second coming of Christ; in particular, he tells them there would be,I. A general apostasy, there would come a falling away first, v. 3. By this apostasy we are not to understand a defection in the state, or from civil government, but in spiritual or religious matters, from sound doctrine, instituted worship and church government, and a holy life. The apostle speaks of some very great apostasy, not only of some converted Jews or Gentiles, but such as should be very general, though gradual, and should give occasion to the revelation of rise of antichrist, that man of sin. This, he says (v. 5), he had told them of when he was with them, with design, no doubt, that they should not take offence nor be stumbled at it. And let us observe that no sooner was Christianity planted and rooted in the world than there began to be a defection in the Christian church.

 

[Zaac]

It says that there will be a falling away--that means that people will drop out of Christianity and apostasy will grow. Falling away means a apostasy. Growing apostasy means that the world is coming to an end.

A falling away doesn't make Christians less Christian though. he numbers remain the same. You just probably couldn't tell by the behavior.

 

[church mouse guy]

No, Zaac, falling away or apostasy means that they do not believe anymore. As the world turns to the Anti-Christ, more and more people will deny any connection to Christianity. America is already a neo-barbarian country with widespread apostasy. The religious left sure is not going to die for their faith because the faith that the religious left has is not worth dying for. Christianity is exploding in Asia and Africa and fading in Europe and the Americas.

 

[Zaac]

No, Zaac, falling away or apostasy means that they do not believe anymore. As the world turns to the Anti-Christ, more and more people will deny any connection to Christianity. America is already a neo-barbarian country with widespread apostasy. The religious left sure is not going to die for their faith because the faith that the religious left has is not worth dying for. Christianity is exploding in Asia and Africa and fading in Europe and the Americas.

If they don't believe any more , they weren't Christians in the first place. An ALL-KNOWING Jesus Christ hasn't saved anyone who He knows doesn't really believe.

You can't just stop believing by choice after He saves you. It's FOREVER. An ALL-KNOWING God kinda knows if a person is truly a Believer.

He doesn't save you and then you do something whereby you get to change your mind.

An ALL-KNOWING God could forsee that and save you when HE knows you're gonna truly believe. Salvation is not a box of cereal to be returned just because you no longer like the flavor.

People deny a connection to Christianity because there is no connection IN them.

And perhaps the falling away that Scripture speaks of is starting to be evidenced. When there is more politics than love. When there is more arguing over issues than there is sharing of the Gospel. When there is less and less honor and respect for those God has placed in authority over us. When there is nothing but "showy" reverence for God and no love for neighbor, perhaps this is indicative of a falling away.

After all when the people of God start to look and act nothing like God...when they have forsaken their first love...there is indeed a falling away.

And one must wondersince so many CHRISTIANS are so angry about politics and the things associated with our politics...one is left to wonder if folks can still see straight enough to confess and repent and the love of Christ and others starts to be displayed again?

Like the country, we may have gone over an edge from which the only recovery will be the rapture of the Church.

 

[church mouse guy]

In years gone by, we had piety, which taught that politics was dirty and one should stay out of it. But that backfired.

Everyone has a right to express opinions and a duty to vote. The last survey that I saw said that Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are about 50-50 between the two parties. I don't see what the problem is for Christians to participate in society the same as everyone else.

People have the ability to choose or not to choose what they believe. The government should operate according to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Zaac]

In years gone by, we had piety, which taught that politics was dirty and one should stay out of it. But that backfired.

Everyone has a right to express opinions and a duty to vote. The last survey that I saw said that Evangelicals and Fundamentalists are about 50-50 between the two parties. I don't see what the problem is for Christians to participate in society the same as everyone else.

You're not supposed to be like everyone else. And no one said to not participate. But we shouldn't be mastered by politics either to the point that THAT is what the church is known for.

The evangelical church has aligned itself with a political party and is often viewed as just another extension of that party instead of an extension of Jesus Christ. And that is a shame.

I can't think of the last time God's people have been in the news because of their overwhelming display of love. But we're in there every day just about arguing about politics and issues.

People have the ability to choose or not to choose what they believe.

And Christ commissioned His CHURCH to point that which is lost to believe in HIM. Not the right or the left. Not liberal or conservative. Not Democrat or Republican. Not this issue or that issue. But in HIM.

The government should operate according to the teachings of Jesus.

The government SHOULD operate the way that everything in this broken world system operates: like it's broken.

Individuals should operate according to the teachings of Jesus. Now if you place more and more Christ-loving and honoring Christians into government, then prayerfully they will keep Christ first and His influence will be effective.

So when we point more people to CHRIST, not politics, we develop a larger voting bloc that will seek to place more CHrist-loving, Christ-honoring people into the government.

But those people, just like the ones voting for them, need to remember that the sphere of influence is to be about Christ FIRST and letting Him change things, not about politics and finding a man to temporaly change things.

 

[church mouse guy]

I don't know what your point is. Jews vote overwhelming Democrat. Black churches took up collections for Jessie Jackson in violation of federal law and Black churches are notoriously pro-Democrat. Part of Jimmy Carter's appeal was that he was a Sunday School teacher. Harry Truman was a Southern Baptist. So what?

 

[Zaac]

I don't know what your point is. Jews vote overwhelming Democrat.

Jews are also absent the Holy Spirit and on the way to hell.

Black churches took up collections for Jessie Jackson in violation of federal law and Black churches are notoriously pro-Democrat.

What on earth is a Black church? :laugh: ANy church likewise needs to stop because it's just as disgusting.

Part of Jimmy Carter's appeal was that he was a Sunday School teacher. Harry Truman was a Southern Baptist. So what?

What's your point with this?

We were talking about a falling away. Yeah folks have talked about politics in the past. But people are now consumed by it to the point where the CHurch is not known for CHrist but its politics.

That should have us all at the altar and divorcing the church immediately from politics of any sort. It's a divisive poison and the enemy is using it to manipulate us into something that looks no different than the lost world.

So either we're concerned about the lost and eternity or we've fallen into getting caught up in this dying world and the here and now.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I try to be nice and understand what you are saying and this is what I get...

You claimed the resurrection is hardly ever mentioned in the Cal/Non-Cal debates. That's ridiculous. Nothing to do with being "nice". Be honest, I would much rather have that.

 

[carpro]

I could care less about your facts.

Obviously. As you do any that don't match your opinion.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

No, Zaac, falling away or apostasy means that they do not believe anymore.

What it actually means is that they never truly believed. They have only an intellectual or emotional assent that will not be sustained when they are confronted with persecution, or even mere opposition, for what they claim to believe.

 

[RLBosley]

You claimed the resurrection is hardly ever mentioned in the Cal/Non-Cal debates. That's ridiculous. Nothing to do with being "nice". Be honest, I would much rather have that.

OK bud. Have a nice evening.