The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Jarthur001 said:Hello Archangel,
Now we have reached into an area that will start to divide our group. Evil will be hard for us to address and each of us agree with. This is not really something found in Theology proper, but being that it is on the table, I would like to say a few things. Let me start by quoting a verse.
Psalms 18:31
"As for God, his way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he is a buckler to all those that trust in him."
Maybe we should not get into evil as the sin principle on this thread, because then we would be really off the subject matter. But evil as a calamity, I would like to ring in on. I agree with how you looked at Kushner well known book. I also agree with how you answer "why do bad things happen to good people". I may have used the word goodness rather then grace and say "it is because God is good".
What I disagree with the most is why. I can understand why you may say it is because we all our sinners, I just disagree with it. I think this over looks Gods grace and that we (his elect) are not under His wrath. God does all things because they are good and the right thing to do.
When going though "bad things" we may not understand nor see them as good. But it is because of Gods goodness that we sometimes go though the fire. Not because we are sinners. But because God knows better then us. Even in death, we can say God is good. When someone is facing death that is close to us, it allows us to rethink our life. We all must die, but God allows death to come in our life that is best for us at that time. Even if the death is sudden and a shock to us, it is Gods own goodness that allowed it to come at that moment. Maybe it was the only moment we could handle death of our loved one. If God had waited another year, to allow death to enter our family, it may have had crushing blows beyond what we had when death did come up on our family.
Even when calamity falls on sinners, it is for good. It is to uphold goodness and or stop the evil. But God can take care of this placing good on both the saints and upholding goodness over the sinner, in one event. "Where was God when Hurricane Katrina hit?"...God was there, for it was good. Saints died in Katrina, but those saints are in Heaven. This is good. They that died as saints were not hurt as much as the ones left behind. To the ones left behind and also call Christ their Lord, God was good in showing His loving kindness to them as they walked through deaths valley and lose. To those left behind in Katrina and do not know of God, God was still good to allow Katrina to let godless people think of life and how it can be taken from them at any moment. God was good and just to end the life of sinners in Katrina. God was good to allow our nation to focus on the power of God knowing that God could do this to any city at any time. Katrina happened not just because there were sinners there, because there are sinners everywhere. Katrina happened because God is good.
This short post would not allow us to get deep into this, so I want to just sum up my view. All things that we see as bad/evil or calamity are not viewed that way in Gods eyes. His ways are higher then our own. God is good.
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At the rate this thread is going, it will be closed before I get back to it. I have a long day ahead. I have enjoyed it dear brothers and sisters. I hope we can have others like it.
In Christ...James
James,
EXCELLENT post, my friend.
Let me say I agree with you and let me address some of your comments.
First, I did not intend to say that evil befalls the saints because the saints are still sinners. I should have been clearer on this. I think this does happen, but my intent was to show that God would be justified in taking the lives of even the saints because the saints sometimes sin (and are still sinners, even though they are forgiven). For support of this idea, Paul tells the Corinthian Christians that taking the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner would lead to death.
Secondly, I did not intend to say that the destruction of Hurricane Katrina was due to any "special" sin of the French Quarter. In fact, I was quite dismayed at Pat Robertson's and Jerry Fallwell's comments as they suggested this very same thing. My point was to show that God was there and was still where He had always been--on His throne and in control. And, in the eyes of non-believers (actually, the believers too), God is just (if He did bring Katrina for "Special" sins) because He is always just in judging sin.
Certainly I agree with the idea that God brings these things about to remind non-believers (and believers) of what Luke 13 says, "Unless you believe, you will likewise perish."
Many Blessings!
The Archangel