Irresistible Grace, John 6:37

[Yeshua1]

All of them are relevant to all of us, but it helps to understand their intent.

Hermeneutics 101 teaches us that we must understand the historical context in which they are written in order to best understand that intent. Knowing that God is in the process of hiding the truths of the gospel from his elect nation of Israel (cutting them off from the tree, ref. to Rom 11, Mk 4; Matt 13), while taking those truths to the Gentiles (grafting them into the tree, ref. to Rom. 11 and Acts 28:28), is significant in discerning the intent of the author who is writing about God drawing some people to Christ and not others, don't you think?

you have yet to prove that there was this "judicial hardening' process going on in isreal, as the jews who refused yeshua were doing what sinners naturalely do, and the Lord continued to harden what they were already doing, like the Pharoah!

the Lord predetermining to use their own natural responses to reject yeshua as messaih, preserved out a chosen remnant, and brought in we gentiles to salvation fold!

Do you hold that ALl the scriptures are equally inspired as the revelation from god, or just parts of them are? or that it becomes the word to us when we have it make sense to us by the Holy sprit, or?

 

[freeatlast]

Women seem to have a unique ability to bind man's free will starting with Eve!

To the contrary. Eve brought out Adam's free will.

 

[Skandelon]

you have yet to prove that there was this "judicial hardening' process going on in isreal, as the jews who refused yeshua were doing what sinners naturalely do, and the Lord continued to harden what they were already doing, like the Pharaoh!

Why do I need to prove what you yourself just now affirmed in the exact same sentence?

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do I need to prove what you yourself just now affirmed in the exact same sentence?

I affirm that they were uanble to come to yeshua, due to them being sinners, NOT because God 'forced' them to reject the messiah!

he took what they were naturaly going to do, and hardened them off further!

they started it, God finished it!

 

[Skandelon]

I affirm that they were uanble to come to yeshua, due to them being sinners,

Unable UNLESS assisted by a gracious work of the Holy Spirit, right?

Isn't the Gospel a gracious work of the Holy Spirit?

NOT because God 'forced' them to reject the messiah!

Clearly God prevented some from repenting and being forgiven by hiding the truth from them in parables and sending them a spirit of stupor. There are many passages which clearly lay this truth out. Now, if you'd like to offer an alternate explanation or interpretation for these verses I'd be glad to respond, but to just deny they exist doesn't help our discussion.

he took what they were naturaly going to do, and hardened them off further!

Right. I agree. But why?

To condemn them to a certain death in hell? ORRRR to make room for the Gentiles, provoke them to envy and possibly bring them to salvation as well? (Romans 11:14)

 

[Yeshua1]

Unable UNLESS assisted by a gracious work of the Holy Spirit, right?

Correct! Unless the Spirit enables us to have 'ears to hear" will fall on deaf ears!

Isn't the Gospel a gracious work of the Holy Spirit?

the Cross of Christ is the basis to save us, the message of it , the Gospel, is what we hear in order to receive jesus and be saved!

To the elect in christ, makes sense, but to the remainder perishing in their sins, foolishness!

Clearly God prevented some from repenting and being forgiven by hiding the truth from them in parables and sending them a spirit of stupor. There are many passages which clearly lay this truth out. Now, if you'd like to offer an alternate explanation or interpretation for these verses I'd be glad to respond, but to just deny they exist doesn't help our discussion.

God spoke in parables, and he gave spritual ears to thsoe whom he chose to save, while remainder stayed as they were!

Right. I agree. But why?

To condemn them to a certain death in hell? ORRRR to make room for the Gentiles, provoke them to envy and possibly bring them to salvation as well? (Romans 11:14)

they were already under the condemnation/judgement from God, as they were all found sinners in adam! God knew that he would save out a faithful remnant, a spiritual isreal, completed jews in yeshua, and would also use their own disobedience to establish the Church!

just think that we have to understand that the Lord did NOT force the jews to reject Yeshua, but he did ordain that their rejection would be able to have gentiles offerred salvation thru yeshua now also!