-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Irresistible Grace, John 6:37
- Thread starter OldRegular
- Start date
- Status
Like all Calvinists before him, Old Regular, turns to questioning my qualifications and character, rather than addressing the fact that "shall be arriving" is indeed the meaning of the Greek word used in the phrase all God gives to me shall come to (shall be arriving) Me.
It is a fact that "Thayer's" does indicate the meaning in John 6:37 is metaphorical, meaning to seek intimacy with one, to become his follower, i.e. exactly what Calvinism claims. However, this is commentary and interpretation, not actual word meaning definition, which is "shall be arriving."
To say I am claiming more expertize than Thayer is calculated to disparage me. Somehow it was overlooked that other equally qualified experts say the meaning is shall be arriving.
It is a fact that "Thayer's" does indicate the meaning in John 6:37 is metaphorical, meaning to seek intimacy with one, to become his follower, i.e. exactly what Calvinism claims. However, this is commentary and interpretation, not actual word meaning definition, which is "shall be arriving."
To say I am claiming more expertize than Thayer is calculated to disparage me. Somehow it was overlooked that other equally qualified experts say the meaning is shall be arriving.
Last edited by a moderator:
freeatlast
New Member
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You have not presented any support for your view from "other equally qualified experts". Assuming that "other equally qualified experts" share your views it is strange that none of these experts affected any major translation as shown below:
John 6:37, KJV
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37, ASV
All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37, GLT
All that the Father gives to Me shall come to Me, and the one coming to Me I will in no way cast out.
John 6:37, KJ21
All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me, and him that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.
John 6:37, MKJV All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will in no way cast out.
John 6:37, NASB95 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
John 6:37, NASB “All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
John 6:37, NIV All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
John 6:37, YLT
all that the Father doth give to me will come unto me; and him who is coming unto me, I may in no wise cast without,
You and freeatlast can commiserate and talk about them mean old Calvinists all you like but that does not change Scripture or support your freewill doctrine!
saturneptune
New Member
I dated someone in high school named Grace, and she was very irresistible.
Yet another dodge, quoting translations that say "come" rather than either seek intimacy or shall be arriving. Boilerplate devoid of content.
Then the effort to shift the discussion from John 6:37 and Calvinism's false doctrine of Irresistible Grace, to anything else, my character or free will or who shot the sheriff but not the deputy.
And I see where the Calvinist says no qualified expert supports shall be arriving. Folks Google Greek Interlinear and look up John 6:37. Note that the meaning given for the word translated "come" is "shall be arriving."
Calvinists will say anything to support their false doctrine and employ fallacies such as ad homenim argumentation where they attack the character or qualifications of an opponent rather than addressing to topic.
Then the effort to shift the discussion from John 6:37 and Calvinism's false doctrine of Irresistible Grace, to anything else, my character or free will or who shot the sheriff but not the deputy.
And I see where the Calvinist says no qualified expert supports shall be arriving. Folks Google Greek Interlinear and look up John 6:37. Note that the meaning given for the word translated "come" is "shall be arriving."
Calvinists will say anything to support their false doctrine and employ fallacies such as ad homenim argumentation where they attack the character or qualifications of an opponent rather than addressing to topic.
Last edited by a moderator:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Yet another dodge, quoting translations that say "come" rather than either seek intimacy or shall be arriving. Boilerplate devoid of content.
Then the effort to shift the discussion from John 6:37 and Calvinism's false doctrine of Irresistible Grace, to anything else, my character or free will or who shot the sheriff but not the deputy.
And I see where the Calvinist says no qualified expert supports shall be arriving. Folks Google Greek Interlinear and look up John 6:37. Note that the meaning given for the word translated "come" is "shall be arriving."
Calvinists will say anything to support their false doctrine and employ fallacies such as ad homenim argumentation where they attack the character or qualifications of an opponent rather than addressing to topic.
Van it is you who are avoiding the clear teaching of Scripture by this nonsensical talk about come vs arriving. I suspect most people realize that when they come they have arrived.
I have shown that the most widely accepted translations use come. If you don't like it, tough. Get yourself a pen and in your Bible
freeatlast
New Member
But that still does not deal with the free will side.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Not So. Van has the free will to take a pen and change come to arriving in every Bible he owns. He should exercise his free will then he will be happy.
The very fact that Jesus says he will not cast out the person who comes to him proves the person comes of his own free will. It would be nonsensical and unnecessary for Jesus to say he would not cast out a person he CAUSED to come to him.
Last edited by a moderator:
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Not really Winman. Only in your mind!
Give me a break, why would Jesus have to promise someone he was irresistibly causing to come to him that he would not cast them out? Nonsensical and unnecessary.
Now, if a person comes of their own free will, they might need assurance they would be accepted.
exactly. most definitely not in the Bible.
The same reason that if a person could come on their own free will......
freeatlast
New Member
Does a person have to decide to come to Jesus for salvation? Do they weigh it in their hearts and minds or are they ushered into salvation like mindless zombies?
Last edited by a moderator:
No one here believes that one comes like "mindless zombies."
freeatlast
New Member
Good, then we all agree we come from free will.
you are presenting a false dichotomy.
- Status