Irresistible Grace, John 6:37

[Skandelon]

I believe you have hit the nail [or should I say "freewill"] on the head!

He also happened to hit John Calvin on the head, apparently:

"...when we approach to the holy table, let us not only remember in general that the world has been redeemed by the blood of Christ, but let every one consider for himself that his own sins have been expiated.” - John Calvin

"“And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race… and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God…Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.” - John Calvin

"…that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish…And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life…” -John Calvin

“…Under the term world are, I think, included not only those who would be truly converted to Christ, but hypocrites and reprobates.” - John Calvin

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him.” - John Calvin

"They tear the church for the sake of circumcision: I wish they were entirely cut off." Chrysostom favors this opinion. But how can such an imprecation be reconciled with the mildness of an apostle, who ought to wish that all should be saved, and that not a single person should perish? So far as men are concerned, I admit the force of this argument; for it is the will of God that we should seek the salvation of all men without exception, as Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world.” -John Calvin

“He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated.” -John Calvin​

No wonder Jacobus liked this guy so much! :love2:

 

[freeatlast]

permitted????? no wonder we cannot agree

This is free will;

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Predestination

Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

Foreknowledge

Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

Election
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

King Saul furnishes a good example of the reality of human responsibility. His disobedience cost him a kingdom that would have been everlasting: “the Lord would have established your kingdom over Israel forever” 1 Sam 13:13. God later said of Saul, “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned away from me and has not done what I said” 1Sam 15:11.
The Bible makes it clear that we are not pawns in the hands of a deterministic and fatalistic universe. Every command in the Old and New Testaments is proof of the reality of human responsibility from God’s perspective.

God is the divine Potter who has “right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use” according to His own purpose Romans 9:21. Yet this “clay” has a will and is responsible for the choices it freely makes. (Read Jer 18:1-12 to see how the prophet subtly intertwines both of these concepts.)

So the real reason we do not agree is because you hold to just one part of what scripture teaches on this and I hold to it all even if I cannot explain how it works.

 

[OldRegular]

I keep telling you Skandelon. I am not a Calvinist. What little I know about Calvin he was wrong on at least three, perhaps more, things: infant Baptism, the mode of Baptism, the Lords Supper, and the offices in the Church.

Honestly Skandelon, I do have trouble ignoring the Scripture posted in the OP no matter what Calvin said.

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

All that God the Father elects unto Salvation and gives to the Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, shall come to Jesus Christ for Salvation. Other Scripture tell us that no one can come to Jesus Christ of his own volition.

John 6:65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 6:44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is free will;

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Predestination

Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

Foreknowledge

Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”

Election
John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

King Saul furnishes a good example of the reality of human responsibility. His disobedience cost him a kingdom that would have been everlasting: “the Lord would have established your kingdom over Israel forever” (1 Sam. 13:13). God later said of Saul, “I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned away from me and has not done what I said” (1 Sam. 15:11).
The Bible makes it clear that we are not pawns in the hands of a deterministic and fatalistic universe. Every command in the Old and New Testaments is proof of the reality of human responsibility from God’s perspective.

God is the divine Potter who has “right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special use and another for ordinary use” according to His own purpose (Rom. 9:21). Yet this “clay” has a will and is responsible for the choices it freely makes. (Read Jer. 18:1-12 to see how the prophet subtly intertwines both of these concepts.)

So the real reason we do not agree is because you hold to just one part of the truth on this and I hold to it all even if I cannot explain how it works.

We can be thankful that we agree on the blood of Jesus paying for sinners such as us.
We both believe we have truth.One of us is wrong.Jesus weeps over Jerusalem.....because they were unwilling.

 

[freeatlast]

[/B]


We can be thankful that we agree on the blood of Jesus paying for sinners such as us.
We both believe we have truth.One of us is wrong.Jesus weeps over Jerusalem.....because they were unwilling.

Yes I am thankful for the free gift. I would add we might both be wrong.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes I am thankful for the free gift. I would add we might both be wrong.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Thankfully...Jesus is not wrong....

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Skandelon]

I keep telling you Skandelon. I am not a Calvinist.

So? I was just pointing out that many of you far out Calvin John Calvin and go far beyond the obvious intent of the text to fit your dogma....

Honestly Skandelon, I do have trouble ignoring the Scripture posted in the OP no matter what Calvin said.

But you do ignore the context in which that passage was written:

Understanding the historical context and the audience is vital to understanding the authors intent. I think we can all agree that Jesus' audience was Israel in John 6. Within Israel at this time in history are two distinct groups of people:

1. Those who have been enabled (drawn) to come to Jesus by the Father
2. Those who have not been enabled (drawn) to come to Jesus by the Father

We agree with this part, right?

Calvinists believe and teach:
#1 are the elect who are drawn by the effectual work of regeneration
#2 are the non-elect who remain in their Totally Depraved condition (unable to willingly believe and repent)

I submit:
#1 are the Remnant of Israel (Jews who have been reserved from the hardening process by which rebellious men are blinded in their rebellion and made unable to see the truth and come to faith and repentance temporarily)

#2 are the rest of Israel who have been temporarily hardened by the Father as spoken of in John 12:39-41: 39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere: 40 "He has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn--and I would heal them."

So, the reason those in group 2 can't come to Christ is because they are being hardened in their rebellion so that God can accomplish his purpose of redemption on the cross, not because they were born non-elect and in some totally depraved condition as Calvinists presume upon the text. We KNOW why they weren't able to come because scripture tells us plainly in John 12:39 and its not a universal inborn condition of all mankind. Its simply because they are being blinded from the gospel and only once Christ is raised up will the gospel be sent to ALL the world to draw all men (John 12:32)

Those who WERE enabled (Group 1) were made up of people like the apostles (the 12) who were specifically handpicked and chosen for the noble purpose of taking the gospel to the rest of the world. They were given by the Father for this noble cause and thus they have been more privy to the gospel, in that it is not hidden from them in parables (Mark 4) or they are not given the "spirit of stupor" (Rm 11). They are not being judicially hardened while the rest of Israel is. (Acts 28:21-28)

 

[freeatlast]

:laugh::laugh: Thankfully...Jesus is not wrong....

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Yes I agree. :love2:

 

[OldRegular]

Understanding the historical context and the audience is vital to understanding the authors intent. I think we can all agree that Jesus' audience was Israel in John 6.

I can agree that Jesus Christ was speaking to the Jews. However, His larger audience was both Jew and Gentile.

Skandelon, your insistence that the John 6 is only for the Jews is as nonsensical as the dispensationalist insistence that Revelation 4-20 is not written to and for the Church but is for Jews only.

 

[Van]

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

All that God the Father elects unto Salvation and gives to the Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, shall come to Jesus Christ for Salvation. Other Scripture tell us that no one can come to Jesus Christ of his own volition.

Ever notice how Calvinists repeat their false assertions over and over and never address the rebuttal. What John 6:37 actually says is all the Father gives to Christ shall come to Christ. However the word translated "come" actually means arrive, which makes sense since after arriving in Christ, Christ will not cast out. So rather than speaking of violitionally choosing to trust in Christ, the misinterpretation of Calvinism, come to Me refers to the action of God giving a person to Christ, which is the action of God spiritually placing a person in Christ and then sealing his in with the Holy Spirit.

But like all the rest of the many verses cited to support Calvinism, the support is found in the misinterpretation, not in the actual text.

 

[OldRegular]

Ever notice how Calvinists repeat their false assertions over and over and never address the rebuttal. What John 6:37 actually says is all the Father gives to Christ shall come to Christ. However the word translated "come" actually means arrive, which makes sense since after arriving in Christ, Christ will not cast out. So rather than speaking of violitionally choosing to trust in Christ, the misinterpretation of Calvinism, come to Me refers to the action of God giving a person to Christ, which is the action of God spiritually placing a person in Christ and then sealing his in with the Holy Spirit.

But like all the rest of the many verses cited to support Calvinism, the support is found in the misinterpretation, not in the actual text.

Van,
It appears you have never read chapter 6 of the Gospel according to John so I will post it for you and any others who may be in the same boat. It is a long chapter so I understand. I also extend my apologies to others for imposing on their patience. Of course those who have read the chapter will not need to read it again except it is a wonderful chapter, full of the truths of God for all of us.

Now Van, note that while Jesus Christ was on a mountain with his disciples a great multitude followed Him. Unfortunately they brought no food so Jesus Christ had to feed them, some 5000 in all.

And that made the people happy; so happy in fact that they, well let Scripture speak:

14. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.
15. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Now what did these people mean: This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. Well Scripture tells us through Moses in the book of Deuteronomy 18:15. The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Not to belabor the above two verses but these folks liked Jesus Christ so much they wanted to make Him King. Talk about judicial hardening as some have in response to the OP?????

Well that was not really what Jesus Christ came for so He departed again into a mountain himself alone. Now Van, these 5000 came, or arrived where Jesus Christ was. Did He cast them out? Well not exactly so you decide!

The disciples take a boat to Capernaum; Jesus Christ stays behind because He wants to take a walk! Well to make a long story short some of those people went over the sea to find Jesus Christ, and they did.[Verses 24 & 25.]

24.When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus.
25. And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

The exact number is not known but it is unlikely that 5000 could find transport across the sea. It was likely a small number as we see that Jesus Christ was teaching in a synagogue [Verse 59]. Anyhow they arrived to where Jesus Christ was, and He did not cast them out, at least not physically.

Now on to the bone of contention, Verse 37!

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Van, Greek scholar that he is, would render this verse as:

All that the Father giveth me shall arrive to me; and him that arriveth to me I will in no wise cast out.

Well a part of the 5000 arrove. I ask again: Did Jesus Christ cast them out? We shall see! Consider the remainder of the immediate passage:

38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verse 39 tells us essentially the same thing as Verse 37, as does verse 40. The problem is: These folks really did not like what Jesus Christ was saying to them; that old Satanic free will I guess. So what did they do? They do what folks generally do:

41. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

You see these folks arrove but they really did not want what Jesus Christ offered, "Bread from Heaven", they just wanted bread; made out of wheat, barley, oats, whatever. They really did not come to Jesus Christ or else what He said in Verses 37-40 is incorrect and we all know that cannot be.

Now consider the next passage in dispute, Verse 44: No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Big question here: Did the Father draw these folks to Jesus Christ. He did not literally cast them out, or did He? After Jesus Christ told the men, some who were apparently disciples, the cost of discipleship in Verses 47-59 He got the following reaction:

60. Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61. When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62. What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

In Verse 66 we read: From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Jesus Christ did not cast out those who came to Him, those who were drawn by the Father. Those who left may have arrived but they did not come, they were not drawn by the Father.

Now consider the final Verse in the OP, Verse 65:

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

And that is the truth. Now some on this Board will call it Calvinism. I call it Scripture. In Chapter 6 we are shown the response typical of most of the world to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but to we who are the called: both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

And some will talk about "judicial hardening" but I have shown on another post that the chief priests, looking after their own interests, plotted the death of Jesus christ. [See John 11 and post 88]

Here I must apologize for not posting John 6; too many words.

 

[Van]

Hi Old Regular, I see that you posted nonsense yet again without addressing my rebuttal.

You seem to deny that the Greek word translated "come" in John 6:37 means arrive. Strike one, any one who looks up the word knows it means arrive.

Next, the multitude had traveled to the location where Jesus was, seeking Him, therefore that action had been completed, verse 25. Strike two.

Jesus tells them they must believe in Him, whom God had sent, verse 29.

They ask for a sign, yet another miracle, verse 30.

Then Jesus says He is the bread out of heaven that gives life, verses 32-35.

Then in verse 36, Jesus tells the multitude that they do not believe Jesus is the bread of life.

What do they not believe? Now we come to verse 37, which tells them that Jesus is indeed the bread of life. This is the context.

All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me ( = arrive in Me) and the one who comes to (arrives in Me) I will not cast out.

For I have come down (just like the manna from heaven) not to do my own will but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

So in context, it is my view that can be plainly read in John 6. Strike three.

I am not a Greek scholar, but I can read an interlinear and commentary and a lexicon.

 

[OldRegular]

Hi Old Regular, I see that you posted nonsense yet again without addressing my rebuttal.

You really are kidding yourself. You did not rebut anything. No one can really rebut what Scripture teaches, try as they might.

I am not a Greek scholar, but I can read an interlinear and commentary and a lexicon.

Perhaps you are relying more on the commentary than Scripture.

 

[Van]

Folks, note the dismissive evasion offered to rebut the actual meaning of John 6:37. Calvinists rely of Calvinist doctrine rather than scripture, so they charge others with their behavior.

Ask yourself, was the multitude given to Jesus because the had "come to Jesus?" Nope. The Calvinist misunderstanding of John 6:37 is nonsense, just read it. So "come to Jesus" means to be put into Christ spiritually, and therefore Jesus will not cast out those who arrived in Him.

No matter what verse we may pick, Acts 13:48, John 6:37, Romans 3:11, the result is the same. The claimed meaning of Calvinism has been poured into the text, whereas the plain reading teaches the opposite of Calvinism.

Irresistible Grace referring to the supernatural altering of a person's total spiritual inability so they unalterably seek God and trust in Christ is a fiction. No verse teaches it and certainly many verses teach it is not true, such as Matthew 13:1-26, Matthew 23:13 and so forth.

 

[Van]

IRRESISTIBLE GRACE?

Lets review some of the scriptures purported to support the doctrine of irresistible grace.

John 6:65 says, “And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The reason Jesus said believers couldn’t come to Him unless it has been granted him from the Father is that Jesus was sent by the Father. If the Father had not so loved the world that He sent His Son, no one could come to the Son. The disciples that did not accept that Jesus was the Son of God, walked away. Jesus asked if the twelve wanted to walk away and Peter said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” Then Jesus explained that one of them, chosen by Jesus, could not come to Jesus because He was destined to betray Jesus. So rather than teaching that God only grants access to Jesus to select individuals, the verse actually teaches that God hardened the heart of some so that God’s predestined plan of salvation to the lost would be brought to fruition! So what did the Father grant? Salvation! Does this passage support irresistible grace? Not at all.

Acts 13:48 says, “And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” The use of the word “appointed” seems to indicate God selected or appointed or ordained the individual via irresistible grace. However, the Greek word translated appointed refers to an arrangement by mutual consent. Thus those that took Paul’s direction (you must believe in Christ) believed. Note that this verse is in contrast to Acts 13:46 where it is clear that the involved individual chooses to reject the gospel indicating individual receptivity and not selection is in view. In light of this, the verse actually supports the idea of placing ones faith in Christ as the key to salvation, just as John 3:16 says! Since this verse could be translated “as many as accepted Paul’s direction to eternal life believed”, this verse offers no support for the mistaken idea of irresistible grace.

1 Corinthians 4:7 says, “For who regards you as superior? And what do you have that you did not receive? But if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it.” Paul is preaching against arrogance, against holding views in behalf of one brother against another. He points out that we are the sum of our life experience, all that we know we learned from others, everything we have we received from others and so on. But does this passage say we cannot act upon what we hear? No. We who came from Christian homes were cultivated to receive the gospel, and the gospel was brought to us by the power of the Holy Spirit, but to take this passage further and say that it teaches we received the gift of faith (the inner call directly by the Holy Spirit) is an unnecessary and unsupported extrapolation. Because this passage is so general, it should not be used to support irresistible grace.



Romans 11:35-36 says, “Or who has first given to Him that if might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.” God is sovereign, and we are His creation. Everything we are is from God. The rub is men can invented actions and then attribute them to God because He “could” do them, rather then because scripture says He does them; and such is the invention of irresistible grace.

Acts 5:31 says, “He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” As with all verses where God “grants” something, the doctrine of irresistible grace can be “read” into the text. But if the mechanism for God “granting” something is other than irresistible grace, the truth of scripture still stands, but the false doctrine falls away. In this passage, it is clear that when God raised up Jesus, the first born from the dead, God supplied a powerful gospel to convict Israel, for it is Peter preaching to Jews in the passage, and therefore this is the actual mechanism for “granting” repentance.

Acts 11:18 says, “And when they heard this, they quieted down, and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance to life.” Here again, Peter preaches the gospel and after they had believed in the Lord Jesus Christ they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. God again granted repentance by the effect of hearing the gospel, believing and turning to Christ and not necessarily by any additional action not mentioned or implied in the text.

Acts 14:27 says, “And when they had arrived and gathered the church together, they began to report all things that God had done with them and how He had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles.” Here we see that God is given the credit for an opportunity to spread the Gospel. This is as it should be, giving thanks to God for all things. However, to infer that God opened the door by a supernatural action, the inner call, is unnecessary. Paul preached to the Gentiles that God had not left Himself without a witness, general revelation, and even though such witness might seem faint, Paul had difficulty in restraining the crowds. Jews interfered and stoned Paul, but by the power of God, Paul got up and went to Derbe and made many disciples. Bottom line, the narrative demonstrates how God opened the door of faith without mentioning an inner call.

Acts 16:14 says, “One of those listening was a women named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul’s message.” How did God “open her heart”? The answer from the text is that because she was a worshiper of God, having listened to God and learned from God through the words of the prophets and having accepted the One who sent Him, she had the prerequisite beliefs (i.e. belief in God’s promised Messiah) to accept Jesus. Simply put, if you reject God and His word, your heart will not be open to Jesus. Paul explains this in 2 Timothy 3:15 which says, “and that from childhood you have known the sacred writing which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.” God opens all believers’ hearts by His word, His gospel and His witness Jesus Christ. Does this passage support irresistible grace? Not at all.

Acts 18:27 says, “…and when He (Apollos) arrived, he helped greatly those who had believed through grace.” God gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall have eternal life. This act of grace is the gift of the gospel through the life, death and resurrection of God’s one of a kind Son, and granting eternal life to believers who place their faith in His Son does not need to include irresistible grace. The inference that the grace in view is irresistible grace rather than the gospel, which is the power of God to salvation, is unnecessary and so this passage does not support irresistible grace.

Philippians 1:29 says, “For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.” Christ commanded that we make disciples; that we carry the gospel to the ends of the world. As servants of Christ, believers are to carry their cross and follow Christ no matter the cost. God gave us His Son granting us the opportunity to believe, but also if we believe, the opportunity to suffer with Christ and all other believers, so that for the sake of Christ we can carry the gospel to a lost world. This passage again uses “granted” and Calvinists read “irresistible grace” into this grace, when no such inference is even remotely suggested.

(continued)

 

[Van]

Romans 9:16 says, “So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.” Clearly Paul is teaching that salvation does not depend on our works, no matter how much effort (a man that wills) is put into it. This verse actually provides a powerful proof that irresistible grace is false doctrine. For it teaches an unregenerate man is able to will to be saved, rather than needing to be transformed by irresistible grace in order to will to be saved. But our willing and running does not result in salvation, for all our works are filthy rags. It is God alone who credits our worthless faith as righteousness and based on that sets us apart in Christ for salvation.


Romans 9:19 says, “You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will.” The answer of course is that nobody can resist His will, unless God has granted the capability to choose God or go our own way. Note that in Acts 7:51 the unsaved are resisting the will of the Holy Spirit and therefore the capacity to resist or accept God’s will that all men be saved in indicated. In context, some are complaining that since God hardens some hearts to accomplish His purpose and plan, God should not find fault. Paul responds that we, the creation should not judge the creator. Note that the complaint is lame, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Therefore, anyone that God hardens is justly condemned already. God just did not extend or grant them mercy in order to bring is plan to fruition. This passage does not support the need for irresistible grace.

Support of the concept of irresistible grace is sometimes sought in Titus 3:5 which says, “He saved us not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,”

The assertion is that regeneration precedes faith or, in other words, that the regeneration mentioned here, is irresistible grace. But if you look at the verse you see plainly that the steps of salvation are in view, first the selection for salvation is based on mercy, and not any works of righteousness, then the sinner who is the object of God’s mercy is washed in the process of rebirth whereby the body of sin is removed in the circumcision done without hands in the baptism into the death of Christ and then we arise a new creature with a new heart and a good conscious, and then we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This view, regeneration means being born again, mirrors the similar thoughts to this passage (Titus 3:5-7) found in 1 Peter 1:3. But backing up, since the first step mentioned is salvation according to God’s mercy, a sinner in a sinful state is in view, someone who needs mercy because justice would result in continued condemnation. So we are saved by grace (God granting mercy) through our faith in Christ. In summary the steps are God sent His Son. We believe in our heart in His Son, we call upon the name of His Son, and then God accepts our faith and grants salvation by grace through faith. Therefore, while God’s grace (embodied in the gospel of His Son) precedes our faith, our faith precedes God’s salvation by the process of being born again from above and being indwelt. Acts 16:30-31 says it well in answer to the question, “What must I do to be saved?” Believe in the Lord Jesus which is action of a sinner seeking mercy through faith, rather than making a works based claim of righteousness, because faith is our introduction into the grace of salvation (Romans 5:2).

In summary, while scripture can be found to support the concept of irresistible grace by inference, (i.e. Calvinists have read it into the text) even though it is unnecessary to a straightforward understanding of the text, there is no text or combination of texts that logically demonstrate the inferred action by God. Irresistible grace is a false doctrine. Because of our slavery to sin which pulls us away from God and toward darkness, scripture teaches that God evaluates our faith, as flawed and “depraved” as it might be, and then, based on His mercy credits it as righteousness and, by His grace, chooses to set us apart and by the power of the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the body of Christ.

 

[OldRegular]

All I can say Van is that you type fast! Doesn't prove anything but you sure type fast.

It is comical though Van. You replace the verb come with arrive in John 8:37 and convince yourself that you have destroyed the Doctrines of Grace.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Van]

All I can say Van is that you type fast! Doesn't prove anything but you sure type fast.

It is comical though Van. You replace the verb come with arrive in John 6:37 and convince yourself that you have destroyed the Doctrines of Grace.:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I did not nor do I think I destroyed the false doctrine of Calvinism. I simply point out that the DoG do not fit with scripture.

Next, I did not replace "come with arrive." I observed that the lexicon says "shall be arriving" as the meaning. Note that the verse has two words both translated come. But they are different Greek words so the distinction in the actual text is hidden in the English translation. The first word "shall be arriving" emphasizes the certainty that all those given by God arrive in Christ, whereas the second word emphasizes the process of coming. So no one is lost along the way, 100% of those given to Christ, i.e. spiritually placed in Christ, will not be cast out.

 

[OldRegular]

Just to clear up a little Greek:

John 6:37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.[/color

From Thayer's Lexicon

2240 hkw heko hay'-ko

a primary verb; TDNT - 2:926,306; v

KJV - come 27; 27

1) to have come, have arrived, be present
2) metaph.
2a) to come to one, i.e. to seek an intimacy with one, become his follower: to come upon one (unexpectedly)
2b) to come upon one, of things endured

My emphasis!

 

[Van]

Yes, shall be arriving is even found as the number 1 meaning in Thayer's.

Your number two (a) meaning in this verse is a mistaken interpretation.

Shall we look at another lexicon, sir? What does Vine's say?