Irresistible Grace Summed Up By Jesus

I disagree. You are "nuamcing" the interpretation to fit your theology. It is true, but in the intra-dispensational sense, it isn't.

Right --- but like I said, you have to have the impremiture (justification) of the Father before you can enter Christ's kingdom.

skypair

 

Thanks for the educational link! I DIDN'T know that this was wrong to do. I will always credit my sources from now on. Honestly did mean to mislead anyone...:thumbs:

 

Yes, but skip back to 6:29. They ask Him "What shall we do that we might do the works of God?" Isn't this a salvation question? Did they say "works?" PAY ATTENTION, here!

And Jesus said, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent." Jesus is preaching the gospel here, Martin! BUT the gospel of Jesus Christ was not yet "activated" by His death and resurrection and NNE could believe it (just as your comment suggests!).

No, those whom the Father WOULD give to believe God would believe in the Son.

Yes, but TECHNICALLY and scripturally, they come to GOD for "justification" first (as the OT saints did) and God gives them to Christ for "sanctification" as all NT believers are.

Hey -- you "have your reasons." I just hope they will satisfy Christ at the Bema, 1Cor 3. "Wood, hay, and stubble" make lousy building materials for a heavenly home! :laugh: Therefore, the "code" doesn't allow them! :laugh:

skypair

 

I think you have faith and works mixed up.
If I had cancer and you had made the cure for all that are sick, is it works for me to take that medicine believing that it would heal me? I didn't do anything to merit your provision. You made the medicine because you knew people would have cancer.

 

Actually it is people responding to what God has done. Thats all.

 

Strange Thinking

Yes, that question has been asked a thousand times PK. They do not think like us. In thier world (if I am not mistaken) the reciever of the gift somehow gets the glory for the Gift because they recieved it. I really haven't figured that one out yet. In otherwords in your scenio the reciever of the medicine can claim the glory for healing himself.

 

Martin,

Just another comment on John 6 which I reread last night. Reading the entire discourse, it is amazing how much of NT theology Jesus was revealing! He was telling them about the Eucharist blood and body (wine and bread). This whole discourse not only was way beyond their ability to comprehend until His death and resurrection, it actually drove many even disciples away in disbelief!

Yet both images -- that of coming and that of blood and body -- speak of 2 saving things. One is salvation unto eternal life -- justification before God -- and the other speaks of saving THIS LIFE -- sanctification unto life -- when we are given unto the Son or when we eat His flesh.

But I will say that Calvinists are unaware of this distinction because they do not view the soul and spirit as separate entities to be dealt with separately by God in salvation.

skypair

 

So true, PK. Very good analogy. :thumbs:

skypair

 

J:

You have provided a classic example of the circle logic of five-point Calvinism.

Your statement demonstrates that in this issue you rely on reason rather than revelation as the basis for your theological moorings. You approach and arrive at Calvinism with reason rather than faith.


LM

 

PK:

I did appreciate this comment and glad you will cite sources from here on out.


LM

 

I hope you don't get upset and call me a liar Lou. Irrestible grace is very easy to prove. John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

 

John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

John 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

John 17:6 "I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

John 17:8-9
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received {them} and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
9 "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;

John 17:11 "I am no longer in the world; and {yet} they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, {the name} which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We {are.}

John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

 

Here are a few more verses to consider...... we don't have to use a circle of logic.

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."


John 10:28-29
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand.

Ephesians 2:4-10
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.
14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."

Titus 3:3-7
3 For we also once were foolish ourselves, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and {His} love for mankind appeared,
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to {the} hope of eternal life.