Irrevocable:

[Frank Leyland]

I've never been wrong, except one time. I said some of Israel are the Elect. I said or implied it three times in the post you replied to. I just said Israel is not the Elect, as in Israel = Elect.

REPLY from FL (UK):

And THAT is my point. As I said, you WERE wrong on that issue, contradicting yourself. Part of Israel was and is Elect, as I, a Christian Gentile, am also part of The Elect. No-one said: "Israel is The Elect" - at least, I didn't. And remember, if YOU are a Gentile Christian, then Paul is YOUR Apostle, chosen by Jesus for the task. In 42 years as a Christian, I've never heard ANYONE say that before, eg Pastors. Evangelists, Teachers et al. And yet it is THERE in The Scriptures. Is everybody blind?!

 

[Frank Leyland]

REPLY from FL (UK):

And THAT is my point. As I said, you WERE wrong on that issue, contradicting yourself. Part of Israel was and is Elect, as I, a Christian Gentile, am also part of The Elect. No-one said: "Israel is The Elect" - at least, I didn't. And remember, if YOU are a Gentile Christian, then Paul is YOUR Apostle, chosen by Jesus for the task. In 42 years as a Christian, I've never heard ANYONE say that before, eg Pastors. Evangelists, Teachers et al. And yet it is THERE in The Scriptures. Is everybody blind?!

 

[Frank Leyland]

Reply to (Ulyan}? Thread's gone missing for now.

It is not for YOU to judge who is Christian or not - that responsibility is reserved for Y'shua alone. And it is not "true nor untrue Christian". You are either a Christian or you are not.

 

[utilyan]

Repeating your error makes you still wrong. I can repeat my unanswered argument, and still be right: An offer that can't be called upon is next to meaningless. And, if it could be done, Paul chose not to give up his salvation but continued serving Christ until he was martyred. Paul is engaged in something the dictionary labels as hyperbole. Either that, or Paul is thinking of something more temporal than salvation.

Face Value. Amen to Paul. He means what he says.

Symth, you would NEVER SOUND anything like Paul. You wouldn't even "hyperbole" this.

No way cause he is one of us.

Selfish people out for their own salvation don't understand sacrifice.

Selfish people would damn their own mother if it got them "salvation"

 

[The Biblicist]

So you are stating then that some who did not know Y'shua before His incarnation are saved?

Because that would be salvation by "works", which Paul took great pains to explain was not at all possible.

The essence of the gospel is justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone without works and that has been the gospel preached since Genesis 3:15 both then and now (heb. 4:2). It is characterized in Abraham as demonstrated by Paul in Romans 4. The "old" covenatn was never designed to justify anyone by works or to give eternal life but to reveal the nature of sin and lead away from the law to faith in Christ (Gal. 3:19-23). The same gospel preached by all the prophets as stated clearly by Peter in Acts 10:43 is the same gospel we preach now, they simply looked forward by faith and we look back to the cross by faith.

 

[utilyan]

Reply to (Ulyan}? Thread's gone missing for now.

It is not for YOU to judge who is Christian or not - that responsibility is reserved for Y'shua alone. And it is not "true nor untrue Christian". You are either a Christian or you are not.

You are mistaken Frank, You might have read something to convict you, But I didn't accuse.
I think everyone of you is my brother and sister. Even the worst of you.


John 13

34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”


Who is a true Christian or not is not a mystery. Even a atheist can pick him out.

When your selfish looking out for yourself, I know your not Christian.


God gives you a command and you stop to wonder if this will give you salvation? will this get you a new car? will this give you 5$?


God gives a Christian a command and he is going to do it FOR FREE. His mind isn't on salvation.



1 john 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Children of God are OBVIOUS.

Who is a Christian is not a SECRET.



I love hearing how all these "elect" folks don't know who is "elect".

I know who the children of God are. It is not a mystery to me. I can smell evil from about 10ft away.

All those salvation first.......muttering about.."well if we do this will God give salvation" "if we faith alone will it salvation us"? is this gonna gimme heaven?

Hell no we are the Church Militant. We don't stop to ask if God's command is worth it.

We will do what God says for FREE, we will even go to hell to do it. We cannot be bought.

God comes first. You have a fear, you tell it hold on God comes first.

A fearless Christian ain't got time for games.

I am a son of God just keep telling me doing what he says is worth nothing, The devil always prays that I go to heaven because, I will monkey stomp the devil if God sends me his way.

Jesus said the Gates of hell will not prevail. That doesn't mean demons are scratching on my front door.
Matthew 16
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

They are hiding from me. We are gonna break those gates.

 

[Yeshua1]

Our Apostle, Paul of Tarsus, said that God's gifts to Israel (those of the child of promise - not all those who are called Israel ARE Israel) are irrevocable. What has happened over the centuries, and even now, to those who have not heard or rejected the call to belief in Y'shua?

The Lord has had with national isreal a faithful remnant chosen and called out by Him to have faith in Jesus as their Messiah, so he has indeed been true to his promices concerning spiritual Isreal!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Real Christians do works for free and don't weigh whether it pays salvation or not like a harlot.

Their mind is not on salvation first willing to give up their own for another.

Romans 9
1I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,


^I would eat my own shoe if some of you started to sound ANYTHING like Paul. THAT is true Christian.



Romans 11

28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.


Paul is willing to give up salvation for his brothers and sisters. God one-ups Paul, putting everyone under the judgment of disobedience.

Mercy is only actual mercy when a wrong has been forgiven.

That's why if you think God poured out all wrath towards you on Jesus instead.......That's not forgiveness at all.

Forgiveness is you don't have to pay for it. If you owe me 100$ and your Mom pays for it. I didn't forgive you, that is just you have been paid for.

To show mercy. God has concluded and shut up all in disobedience. There is only one team.

People seek this US vs THEM combative attitude. God says no all of you are one disobedient group.

I still just do not see how you are a Roman Catholic!!!

 

[utilyan]

I still just do not see how you are a Roman Catholic!!!

I think any faith works Gerhard, If you sincerely follow what is taught.

All of stuff said about Catholics is just misrepresentation.

What everyone says we teach is one thing, what we teach is something else.



If my favorite color is Blue and someone who doesn't like me swears its Red..... How do you argue against that?

Everyone seems to have rights to dictate what the catholic belief is other then a catholic.

Last I checked, we don't worship Jesus we worship mary, the devil is our boss, I was molested, all the priest are gay, we believe works alone saves us, we worship statues.....we have statues that worship other statues, we are secretly trained by new world order secret masonic, Templar, Illuminati ninjas.

Apparently I am the most dangerous person on the face of the earth.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I think any faith works Gerhard, If you sincerely follow what is taught.

All of stuff said about Catholics is just misrepresentation.

What everyone says we teach is one thing, what we teach is something else.



If my favorite color is Blue and someone who doesn't like me swears its Red..... How do you argue against that?

Everyone seems to have rights to dictate what the catholic belief is other then a catholic.

Last I checked, we don't worship Jesus we worship mary, the devil is our boss, I was molested, all the priest are gay, we believe works alone saves us, we worship statues.....we have statues that worship other statues, we are secretly trained by new world order secret masonic, Templar, Illuminati ninjas.

Apparently I am the most dangerous person on the face of the earth.

The day will come you will be disillusioned, IF GOD WILL.

I am of the opinion one of the first things you will be disillusioned about—if the not the very first thing—is going to be about ~faith~. You ~think (any) faith works~. Well, it OUGHT to ~work~ because the Law of God says it should work. But the fact is faith—not yours or anyone’s, works. Everybody’s faith leaves him / her in the lurch, and ought to leave them in the lurch because that too, is what the Law of God says.

Thus, Adam and Eve, Thou shalt not eat. No sooner Adam and Eve ate because they thought their faith should work for them.

Man, there’s only one thing wrong with the Roman Catholic Church. It believes in ‘human rights’. They enthrone man in God’s place, King of Kings.

Depending on God’s Election of every saved damned sinner, maybe one day you will come to realise this futility is the rule of life of your lily white perfect Church. May God have mercy for you, if you are one of his, you will get unbearably uncomfortable in the cozy embrace of your organization—the day it will start tighten its squeeze until you cannot draw another breath. The Roman catholic Church is a PYTHON, it eats up crocodiles and other pythons ONLY ALLOW IT THE OPPORTUNITY—it’s got the power already. You’re not the most dangerous person on the earth, you’re the most in danger person who has been drawn into the snaky swamp already. As long as the snake has won your heart his belly can be filled!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Selfish people would damn their own mother if it got them "salvation"

...except mother harlot, hey.

 

[utilyan]

The day will come you will be disillusioned, IF GOD WILL.

I am of the opinion one of the first things you will be disillusioned about—if the not the very first thing—is going to be about ~faith~. You ~think (any) faith works~. Well, it OUGHT to ~work~ because the Law of God says it should work. But the fact is faith—not yours or anyone’s, works. Everybody’s faith leaves him / her in the lurch, and ought to leave them in the lurch because that too, is what the Law of God says.

Thus, Adam and Eve, Thou shalt not eat. No sooner Adam and Eve ate because they thought their faith should work for them.

Man, there’s only one thing wrong with the Roman Catholic Church. It believes in ‘human rights’. They enthrone man in God’s place, King of Kings.

Depending on God’s Election of every saved damned sinner, maybe one day you will come to realise this futility is the rule of life of your lily white perfect Church. May God have mercy for you, if you are one of his, you will get unbearably uncomfortable in the cozy embrace of your organization—the day it will start tighten its squeeze until you cannot draw another breath. The Roman catholic Church is a PYTHON, it eats up crocodiles and other pythons ONLY ALLOW IT THE OPPORTUNITY—it’s got the power already. You’re not the most dangerous person on the earth, you’re the most in danger person who has been drawn into the snaky swamp already. As long as the snake has won your heart his belly can be filled!

"Man, there’s only one thing wrong with the Roman Catholic Church. It believes in ‘human rights’. They enthrone man in God’s place, King of Kings."

Gerhard I heard you like to lick turtles, how do you defend against that?
I heard its some Johannesburg south African pagan god practice of worship done by the south African "bible students".
If you deny it then your definitely a turtle licker. And if you don't....well see told you so.


Well you say we enthrone a man, one day I hear its a WOMAN in God's place, another its a pagan, then next week its the devil too.

As I stated before, people can only make up what we believe to find wrong with it, rather then challenge us on what we actually believe.

When I present what you believe I'll even agree that I am misrepresenting until you give the clear and go ahead.

But when you present what I believe......its not at all what I believe.

In short what you believe I can learn and repeat and I will have you sign off on it, I don't have to dress it up to vilify it. I only need to follow its rules consistently to make my points against it.

But you couldn't do that with me. So I feel quite honored when folks have to make up the bad stuff.


PS. I still don't agree with your turtle worship practices.