Is 1 John 2:2 Really a defence of Universal Atonement?

[jne1611]

Ed, this is something that I think gets overlooked amongst us brainy folk:tongue3:

Someone without any theological position reading the Bible can not come to the conclusions calvinism comes to...even those on election. A plain reading might draw some questions about election, but if compared to the numerous verses to choose, believe, etc. found doing a simple reading, even election falls into place.

That's why your supposed to study the Bible. That is why the average person knows nothing about doctrine. Casual reading with no study.

 

[webdog]

That's why your supposed to study the Bible. That is why the average person knows nothing about doctrine. Casual reading with no study.

If you are implying I don't study the Bible, you are way off. As someone who was about to jump into calvinism, it was just what you mentioned that kept me from falling for it. I notice that believers are not calvinists to begin with, but become so after reading the work of other calvinists, so a case can be made that a calvinst does not become one by a strict study or reading of Scripture, or at least not until after the TULIP influence has already been engraved on the mind.

 

[jne1611]

If you are implying I don't study the Bible, you are way off. As someone who was about to jump into calvinism, it was just what you mentioned that kept me from falling for it. I notice that believers are not calvinists to begin with, but become so after reading the work of other calvinists, so a case can be made that a calvinst does not become one by a strict study or reading of Scripture, or at least not until after the TULIP influence has already been engraved on the mind.

My faith came from studying Scripture. I was surrounded by Calvinism for years before I ever believed as I do. I was only stating that most of the Christian church is ignorant about the Bible. Even doctrines that you and I would agree on. They are never studied for their worth. And I have seen your arguments elsewhere on Calvinism so I know that you put forth the effort to study. I believe your wrong, but I do not think you are absolutely wrong. I hope you understand me. It is like I told Bro. Bob. we disagree on these matters, but at the heart of these things we agree on the most important thing & that is with out Christ and him alone you will never get to heaven.

 

[EdSutton]

Well I would strongly disagree with your last statement. It is very clear to me and others that election is by God and by his own good pleasure. With this statement you pulled down all the good that was said before.

To ed and web...i would agree that this verse if left to its own will read unlimited atonement just as the freewillers would have it. But we are not to read the Bible that way....a verse here..and a verse there. Context is KING.


This reminds me of something that I use to ask my girls, to get them to think on their own.

I would ask....

"Is every statement in the Bible true?"

A kid will say yes. But the truth is the Bible is right, but the Bible has statements from men that said it wrong. Jobs friends is a case in point. If we were to quote Jobs friends as the truth...we would be wrong...for Jobs friends were wrong.

This happen on this thread, but I saw it to late to reply. A person on this thread used a statement that was WRONG as if it was right. The verse is in the Bible, but the book it is found in has another meaning then what was stated in this thread.

So in order to understand the Bible message we must read the whole Bible and not pick our key verses. Many want to start with a idea and find verses to support the idea. This I feel is wrong. The whole book must be looked at...the writer must be looked at....who he wrote the book to...history...slang...the list goes on. One or two verse can not be our life line.

Anyway..I agree with web and ed..(web and ed sounds like a TV show)..in that the verse on its own shows unlimited atonement. I disagree with all the other junk that was stated after this.

While I agree about some of what you have here written, I'd add that we are commanded to "study ... cutting straight the word of truth," and in that order. One cannot cut straight the word of truth, unless one studies. However one must study in Biblical categories, not merely pile it all up in one pile and attempt to make good sense from it all. I would guess one knows what is a "vertical file". Unfortuantely, too many attempt to classify Bible Doctrines in this same manner.

Ed

 

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