Is a little alcohol alright with the Bible?

[Brett Valentine]

. . .when you say "Drinking has caused destruction of life, I choose not to based on the Bible and my convictions," you are right, and you INSPIRE others to follow in your footsteps.

When you say: "I wish others would follow in my footsteps," you may even CONVICT some.

When you say "I follow the Bible and you don't," and the Bible gives wisdom and yet leaves room for discretion, you fight from a weak position and you win nobody.

Not an accusation, just general experience learned.

Brett

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Ransom:
C.S. Murphy said:

Your view simply says drinking is my right and I will do it.

Thank you for admitting you haven't actually been paying attention.

Ransom and Brian why don't you address my entire post which in my view shows the difference in our views. Or is it easier to imply that my ignorance is the reason I don't see it your way.
Was I wrong in saying that you both share the view that drinking is your right and you will continue to do so? If I am in error on this please explain. cheers!!!
Murph

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:

Ransom and Brian why don't you address my entire post which in my view shows the difference in our views.

Just as soon as you address my entire posts of the last 20-some pages across multiple threads. You ignored more of my posts than I can keep track of.

Or is it easier to imply that my ignorance is the reason I don't see it your way.
Was I wrong in saying that you both share the view that drinking is your right and you will continue to do so? If I am in error on this please explain. cheers!!!

Everything has already been explained, multiple times. Why should I believe another repetition is going to make any difference?

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ransom:
C.S. Murphy said:

Your view simply says drinking is my right and I will do it.

Thank you for admitting you haven't actually been paying attention.

Ransom and Brian why don't you address my entire post which in my view shows the difference in our views. Or is it easier to imply that my ignorance is the reason I don't see it your way.
Was I wrong in saying that you both share the view that drinking is your right and you will continue to do so? If I am in error on this please explain. cheers!!!
Murph</font>[/QUOTE]Brian as usual you fail to answer simple questions so I will ask again. have I misrepresented your stance by saying that you feel drinking is your right and you plan to continue drinking? If so explain how I have done so. It is very simple please answer this question without any shuffling or sidestepping of the issue. It is an easy question will you please answer it. Cheers!!! Murph

[ October 08, 2002, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Brian as usual you fail to answer simple questions so I will ask again.

Oh, the irony...

have I misrepresented your stance by saying that you feel drinking is your right and you plan to continue drinking? If so explain how I have done so. It is very simple please answer this question without any shuffling or sidestepping of the issue. It is an easy question will you please answer it. Murph

I am not sidestepping it. The answer is already given in black and white for you to read. *You* are sidestepping *that*.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by BrianT:
have I misrepresented your stance by saying that you feel drinking is your right and you plan to continue drinking? If so explain how I have done so. It is very simple please answer this question without any shuffling or sidestepping of the issue. It is an easy question will you please answer it. Murph[/qb

Brian you have refused to answer a simple question while claiming that I am less than genuine in my responces. Why not answer the question? Cheers!!
Murph

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Ransom:
C.S. Murphy said:

Your view simply says drinking is my right and I will do it.

Thank you for admitting you haven't actually been paying attention.

Ransom have I misrepresented your stance with this quote? if so please explain your view. If not please affirm that this is your stance toward alcohol.
Murph

 

[Ransom]

My view was posted on page one of this thread and, as yet, has gone unanswered (possibly because I limited myself to what the Bible said, and not heartrending stories of abuse and destruction).

[ October 09, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[Optional]

Originally posted by Ransom:
Jim1999 said:

Is a little alcohol alright with the bible?
Hm I heard it leaves a stain!

Funny you should mention this, as the first damage to the NKJV I was given as a graduation present was a few drops of port wine spilled on Col. 2:7. I hate the fact that the Bible is damaged, but on the other hand it HAS been interesting watching the stains change colour over the years.

On the other hand, the massive coffee stain over Rom. 8 REALLY burns me up. Not only does it not age in interesting ways, but it was a stupid clumsy mistake. On the other hand, at least the Bible now opens naturally to my favourite passage.

To answer the question of the thread, there are at least five commended uses of wine in the Bible.

1. Celebration.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household. (Deut. 14:26)

Wine was a permitted part of a celebration that was commanded in the Law. If drinking wine (or other fermented beverages, as the Law clearly says) was sinful, why would God command his people to do so on a yearly basis?

He causes the grass to grow for the cattle,
And vegetation for the service of man,
That he may bring forth food from the earth,
And wine that makes glad the heart of man,
Oil to make his face shine,
And bread which strengthens man's heart. (Psa. 104:14-15)

If drinking wine is sinful, then why does this God-inspired praise song list wine amongst the many gifts of God? Indeed, why does it associate wine with the very necessities of life such as vegetation, bread, and animal fodder?

2. Thirst.

Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. (Gen. 14:18)

Bread and wine was an everyday meal; bread to fill the stomach, wine to satisfy the thirst. If drinking wine is sinful, then why does the Scripture mention this meal so matter-of-factly; furthermore, how could such a sinful drunkard like Melchizedek ever be considered a type of Christ?

Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price. (Isa. 55:1)

Of course, this is figurative language, using water, wine, and milk as metaphors for God's grace. But that only raises the question: if drinking wine is sinful, then why in the first place would God invite people to drink spiritual wine to satisfy their spiritual thirst? (Imagine if the verse had instead said, "Everyone who is lonely, come to the brothel and satisfy yourself without cost and without price." Same thing.)

3. Ceremonial.

When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. . . . Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma, and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin. (Lev. 23:10,13)

Again, if drinking wine is sinful, why would God a) permit the Israelites to keep vineyards; b) offer this sinful beverage on his holy altar?

5. Medicinal.

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach's sake and your frequent infirmities. (1 Tim. 5:23)

Self-explanatory advice, given under inspiration by an apostle. Clearly the medicinal use of wine is not sinful.

5. Aesthetic appreciation.

And he said to him, "Every man at the beginning sets out the good wine; and when the guests have well drunk, then that which is inferior; but you have kept the good wine until now." (John 2:10)

By saying that some wine is better than other, this passage says implicitly that the purpose of wine is not simply to get drunk, but that evaluating its taste and quality and other such properties are also appropriate uses of wine. The Bible approves of wine-tasting, in other words. If drinking wine was sinful in the eyes of God, how could the steward even have made such a judgment (how would he know?), and why would Holy Scripture take such an evaluation for granted?

I could also add Jesus' matter-of-fact use of the new wine/old wine tasting analogy in Luke 5:39. For a God who supposedly thinks wine is intrinsically sinful, Jesus seems altogether too casual with everyday examples like this, it seems to me.</font>[/QUOTE]Just in case page 1 is somehow inaccessible to some.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Optional:
Just in case page 1 is somehow inaccessible to some.[/QB]

Thanks Optional I am too ignorant to click on page one myself. Your help has been great. Now by this thread feel that Ransom would answer yes to my question, is that your feeling. I do wonder why he would waste his typing finger to announce that he has already answered when it only takes a few keystrokes to type YES or NO. Of course he did answer Brian refuses to even do that. Cheers!!
Murph

[ October 09, 2002, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

[Ransom]

C.S. Murphy said:

I do wonder why he would waste his typing finger to announce that he has already answered when it only takes a few keystrokes to type YES or NO.

Because my view is more complex than simply answering YES or NO to your loaded question.

Because I already stated my views on alcohol very early in the thread and I grow weary of having people tell me what I believe, when I wrote it all out in longhand.

Because I would expect someone who claims to know what I believe to have read what I believe.

That being said . . . are you going to keep pretending to know my beliefs on alcohol better than me?

[ October 09, 2002, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Ransom ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Ransom once again if I have mistated your stance then why not straiten me out. I don't think we should turn from a question loaded or unloaded, doesn't the Bible say always be ready to give an answer? Is it your right as a Christian to drink and will you continue to do so? if that is loaded then unload it by answering yes or no.
Murph

 

[Ransom]

C.S. Murphy said:

Ransom once again if I have mistated your stance then why not straiten me out.

It's in the post Optional was so kind to copy for your convenience.

*boggle*

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Brian as usual you fail to answer simple questions so I will ask again. have I misrepresented your stance by saying that you feel drinking is your right and you plan to continue drinking?
...
it only takes a few keystrokes to type YES or NO

YES

If so explain how I have done so. It is an easy question will you please answer it.

NO

Murph, I think you are the only one on this forum who hasn't got it by now. You are a moderator, please put this thread out of its misery.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Brian thank for replying and answering one of my questions.
I said that I thought your view is that Christian liberty gives you the right to drink and you plan to continue drinking. You said that this misrepresented your stance so I asked you to explain how but you refuse. You have noted that you do drink and that you feel that this is fine with the Bible so why can you not explain how I have misrepresented you.
Murph

 

[BrianT]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
You have noted that you do drink and that you feel that this is fine with the Bible so why can you not explain how I have misrepresented you.

Give it a rest Murph. I have spent way too much time explaining it to you already, I'm not going to continue trying. Seriously. You can stop asking now. Because I give up. Really. Stop. Please. I can spend no more time helping you understand.

And I honestly don't understand why you even care what I believe. I honestly don't believe you are even sincere in wanting to understand my comments on this subject anyway. So drop it, this isn't going anywhere. Deal with it.

Edit: Whoo hoo! page 14!

[ October 10, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: BrianT ]

 

[C.S. Murphy]

It is true that the two edged sword often cuts deep. Sometimes it hurts too bad to answer even simple questions. Atleast you have progressed beyond donuts, thanks.
Murph

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Is a little alcohol alright with the Bible?

No, it tastes better with Italian food.

 

[blackbird]

When you drink alcohol--it puts your brain in prison. It is a mind inhibitor! Your brain is not free to act and think!

OOOHHHHH! But when I get my mind on Jesus--He releases my mind to be like His!! I am free to think like He thinks!

So, is a little alcohol alright with the Bible? Not if you want to think like Jesus! You can't think like Jesus when something is in your brain that inhibits it--even if its just a little bit!

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

[Bible Student]

Not that anyone will care but, any amount of alcohol will affect you in some way. You may not care but, I do not want my thinking clouded in anyway.

Note the follwoing:

The effects of alcohol are directly related to the concentration (percentage) of alcohol in the blood; however, the effects vary among individuals and even in the same individual at different times. In the following description, the blood alcohol concentrations (BAC) are those that would probably be found in a person weighing about 150 pounds:

At a BAC of 0.03% (after about one cocktail, one glass of wine, or one bottle of beer), the drinker will feel relaxed and experience a slight feeling of exhilaration.
At 0.06% (after two cocktails, two glasses of wine, or two bottles of beer), the drinker will experience a feeling of warmth and relaxation; there will be a decrease of fine motor skills and he or she will be less concerned with minor irritations.
At 0.09% (after three cocktails, three glasses of wine, or three bottles of beer), reaction time will be slowed, muscle control will be poor, speech will be slurred and the legs will feel wobbly.
At 0.12% (after four cocktails, four glasses of wine, or four bottles of beer), his or her judgment will be clouded, inhibitions and self-restraint lessened, and the ability to reason and make logical decisions will be impaired.
At 0.15% (after five cocktails, five glasses of wine, or five bottles of beer), vision will be blurred, speech unclear, walking will be unsteady, and coordination impaired.
At 0.18% (after six cocktails, six glasses of wine, or six bottles of beer), all of the drinker's behavior will be impaired, and he or she will find it difficult to stay awake.
At a BAC of about 0.30% alcohol in the blood (after 10 to 12 drinks), the drinker will be in a semi-stupor or deep sleep. Most people are not able to stay awake to reach a BAC higher than 0.30%.
If the BAC reaches 0.50% the drinker is in a deep coma and in danger of death. As the alcohol level reaches 1% in the blood, the breathing center in the brain becomes paralyzed and death occurs.

This came from: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cas2/fact15.shtml

If you have one glass of wine you are under the control of wine. I would rather be under the control of the Holy Spirit.