Is Abortion Murder?

[onevoice]

Quote:
I have only asked that scripture be used to support such propaganda and it has failed to materialize
-----------------------------------------

It has been presented, but you have determined to twist scripture in any way necessary to justify murder. If you will read the posts in you will see them. Look beyond your ego at what the Bible says.

 

[jasonW*]

Originally posted by post-it:
I have only asked that scripture be used to support such propaganda and it has failed to materialize.

Well, I took some time this very morning to post some passages from Eccesiastes about a fetus in the womb being a child. This proves it is in fact a child and has the same right to life as a 10 year old child. Did you fail to see that connection?

If anyone has any more scripture to look at since nothing present has supported a charge of murder or that life begins before the first breath, email me personally and I will start a new thread with hopes that murder charges not be brought against me.

I have personally shown the folly in the idea that life begins at birth through 1.) Scripture 2.) Logic 3.) Common sense. I doubt much more debate in this area will change your mind. Your heart seems to be hardened to the idea. I will pray for you (as I have been).

In Christ (Savior even before he took his first breath),
jason

 

[SBG]

Post-it...are you a Baptist?

 

[Daniel David]

SBG, what church do you attend?

 

[SBG]

Actually, we are in the early stages of starting a work in North Brevard County. There are several of us that have just recently left the Free Will Baptist association, because of doctrinal differences. How 'bout you?

 

[Daniel David]

1st Baptist of Mims. I noticed your profile wasn't accessable to others. Was that on purpose?

 

[SBG]

Honestly.....I ain't real good with these computers! They are just a fad anyway. How do you post a profile?

 

[Daniel David]

Sorry, you have a profile, it is just very limited as to what others can see. Go to the My Profile section and amend it as you like (if you want).

 

[SBG]

2 Tim. Did you go to Astronaut....I did. I'll go update my profile.

 

[Daniel David]

I live in Orlando. I drive 50 minutes to attend church. Orlando is just an entertainment dominated city with churches that think they should compete. No thanks.

 

[onevoice]

Originally posted by jasonW*:
[QB] </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by post-it:
I have only asked that scripture be used to support such propaganda and it has failed to materialize.

Well, I took some time this very morning to post some passages from Eccesiastes about a fetus in the womb being a child. This proves it is in fact a child and has the same right to life as a 10 year old child. Did you fail to see that connection?</font>[/QUOTE]I also posted scripture, but he (Post It)deemed mine was an "isolated event". Interesting how you can make the Bible say anything you want it to when you are trying to justify sin, isn't it?

Isaiah 42:18 (KJV)
18Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.

 

[jasonW*]

Just so Post-it can't complain about us not giving enough arguments against abortion, I thought I would post the following links.

Answers In Genesis abortion section:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/humanlife.asp

AIG using some scripture.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4214pn11_1999.asp

Annihilating Abortion Arguments.
http://www.equip.org/free/DA370.htm

When is does a person become a person?
http://www.equip.org/free/DA020-4.htm

I guess this was just to make sure Post-it did not have the old "I tried, but no one took it seriously" avenue of retreat. Though, from reading back in this thread, there have been no lack of scripture or logical arguments constantly debunking his position. Maybe something in one of these links will speak to his heart.

In Christ,
jason

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Alex:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
Look at this, folks! Ten solid pages because a couple of men can't understand that a baby is a living human being before birth!

I doubt that a hundred more pages would cause either of them to change their minds!

I think the cases have been presented on both sides and what more is there to say?

Amen Helen, once again you get right to the point.
While I am typing I must say that the earlier posts that said Post it was lazy are very far from the truth. I don't have any particulars on his blood pressure but I feel certain his fingers are tired. Grace and Peace to all.
Murph</font>[/QUOTE]I got here too late to read 11 pages or to proof read my post, but have my thoughts and they are the same as Helen's. I wonder if anyone ever thought about the pre-birth of Christ! Pre-birth meaning while He was in the womb of Mary. Now let's look at the initial fertilization of the egg in Mary by God. I can and will not see it in a different way, that when God did this, Jesus was on His way as a human baby(God in the flesh). This was the start of Jesus as a human, period. Would any one who has posted that a baby is not human for X amount of time venture to say Jesus was not Jesus until X amount of time? There was only one difference, it was God who fertilized the egg and not Joseph but that in no way makes the scenario different. A baby is human from conception the same as Jesus was Jesus/God from the beginning. Case closed! Boy, it's a good thing that they didn't decide that He wasn't human or from God at that time, and to quell any gossip, decided to abort, if there were clinics then. Women/men who believe in abortion so as to satisify there own selfish reasons for abortion have much less of an excuse than Mary as she could have been stoned to death if Joseph had so wished as per their belief of adultry as Joseph knew it wasn't his. World wake up...abortion from any stage OR reason is MURDER in the FIRST DEGREE!

God Bless............Alex</font>[/QUOTE]Great Post Alex, Amen to your view, I haven't even thought of it that way. Thanks
Murph

 

[post-it]

jasonW:

I didn't want to make it seem that I have ignored your posts, but I needed some time away from the board. With the personal attacks on me I deemed that I should just shut up. I then shut up!

After I had time to think about it, I felt that it can't be right to stop defending the Bible and the women who are the other victims of the abortion debate.

There is no winner with the abortion issue, either fetus' will be prevented from living (your view die) or women will die from illegal abortions. There will never be a time when someone isn't dying or prevented from life in the issue of pregnancy. Original Sin Sucks!

You seem to be one of the few who is willing to look to scripture for answers and not into humanistic arguments of biology and politics. You took the time to at least research the Bible for answers.

And I will be glad to discuss this issue from that stand point only. I think I will limit any further discussion to scripture only, since I don't care to defend abortion from any other point other than from scripture. If scripture gives us an implied answer or a direct answer then none of the other arguments found in biology etc mean anything.

I will begin by addressing the recent passages you have found.

[ August 23, 2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

[Alex]

Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Alex:
World wake up...abortion from any stage OR reason is MURDER in the FIRST DEGREE!

Well if it is murder, once the laws reflect that, then be prepared to sentence about 1-2 million girl and women to life terms in jail. Because Helen posted 210,000 illegal abortions in a very conservative year of 1961. That number now should be well above the million mark if it is outlawed again.

You are saying that women as a collective are more vicious murders in all of history that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Tsu Tung combined murdered a small number in comparison to the women.

I believe just the opposite.</font>[/QUOTE]I said it was MURDER, period. Is that hard to understand? However, I am speaking from a bibical standpoint about God's creation and the killing off of His creation. Yes, makes sense to me that it is women who have abortions! Liberal(for the most part) are onlt 10 cents away from the 80 per cent or so of the non-Christian world in their thinking. Most women who do this are poor, non-Christian women who feel they have no other choice. It is the lowly man who get these youngersters pregnant and then run.He is just as guilty if this baby is killed. But the real blame should be on parents who let the gutters raise their children not to mention the lack of any form of Christianity at home. BOY, was I raised to honor women and at 65 I still open doors and walk on the car side of a sidewalk. Bet kids and youg adults do not know what this means, but you do! Remember, God does not let igornance be an excuse for murder. But of course, abortion is self defense!

What difference is it to kill a day old baby as opposed to one that is two months from being born? You claim to be a Christian yet you stand up for abortion?? My Jesus scenario should answer this to all who were in dought UNLESS THEY/YOU want to say it would have been ok to abort Jesus as He wasn't yet a human at conception OR is it that this only applies to Jesus but the H..K with other babies. Still

God Bless.............Alex

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by post-it:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
don't have any particulars on his blood pressure but I feel certain his fingers are tired. Grace and Peace to all.
Murph

I think everyone is tired now! God Bless you Murph for stepping out, it would have been two more days of debating with you in LOL .[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Post it I think it fair to say that many here discredit your views but I also believe that most will agree that you are persistant and consistant so I ask you to keep the promise you made and step out of this thread. I feel that I have kept my pledge of not arguing any liberal views and although it has been hard to bite my tongue (fingers) I will say that I feel great for keeping my word and I think you would be blessed in the same way. Just my suggestion.
Murph

 

[onevoice]

Quote:
There is no winner with the abortion issue, either fetus' will be prevented from living (your view die) or women will die from illegal abortions.
---------------------------------------------
Post-It,

You speak as if there is no other option than abortion. There is no logic in this. Again I say that the problem with our society is that nobody wants to take any responsibility for their actions. Don't have sex unless you can handle a baby. As long as abortion is viewed as an option by "Christians", the world has no hope of seeing it as a sin. There are many people in our country that are just dying to adopt a child. Older kids are harder to place, but babies are easy to place in homes. Trust me, I also work under a DHR agency (in addition to the ministry).I also have to counsel the poor girls that come back into my office half out of their mind because they realize a little too late that what they just had sucked out of them was alive. Scripture has been presented, but you refuse to see the scriptures that we have given to you as the word of God. At this point I know nothing else to do but shake the dust from my feet in this discussion and pray strongly that God will open your eyes to the truth, and that you will take His word as truth and not try to mold it into your personal beliefs. I find it sad that any person who calls themself a Christian could believe so strongly in something so evil. I urge you to closely examine your salvation. I just don't understand how someone with Jesus inside could feel this way.

I'm praying for you, man.

 

[Alex]

post-it:

I think C.J. Murphy is a Minister, may be wrong, but in either case he understood by scenario about Jesus with the comments "a great post". Before you go, what do you have to say about the un-born Jesus as to the reference for an abortion? Just curious as to how you can escape this one. No answer will be understood to mean you can't because you would then be playing on both sides.........have a great day!

God Bless..........Alex

PS: Don't worry, Jesus wasn't aborted, this was only a little bible exercise scenario. Now I have to apologize for saying that, sorry!!

[ August 23, 2002, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by onevoice:
Post-It, You speak as if there is no other option than abortion. There is no logic in this. Again I say that the problem with our society is that nobody wants to take any responsibility for their actions.

onevoice, I wish you were right. I wish that abortion wasn't an option someone even thought about making. But legally or illegally they will and we have to deal with it as a society. That person who will make the decision to abort in an outlawed abortion State may be your daughter, her daughter, or her daughter on and on. But someone in your line or in the family line of those reading this is going to make the choice to abort. It will be along with millions of other women down through history. It will happen, it would be illogical to say as you have "They just shouldn't get pregnant or they should adopt." The fact is they won't. People shouldn't use drugs either, but our sons and daughters will. They shouldn't speed down the road and die in teen accidents, but they will. Let's deal with reality, we are not living in the New World yet. We are stuck in the old world.

 

[post-it]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
so I ask you to keep the promise you made and step out of this thread. Just my suggestion.
Murph[/QB]

Thanks for the suggestion, but reread my post, I made no promise to not post. I said I would not post in this thread since murder charges were slung against me. I asked that any verses that anyone wanted debated be emailed to me and instead they were posted here because they knew that I said I would not answer here again. That was an act of disrespect but one I might have asked for. Therefore, I'm back in to defend my name and position. I also never promised anything of the sort you are claiming, or I would not be back!