Is America at war, or not?

[poncho]

In answer to your question, no Carpro America is not at war. It's in nation building mode. We haven't gone to war in a very long time. In war mode you fight to win because your country and it's people are under a real threat. In nation building mode you are compelled to fight under false pretenses so global corporations can continue to be rewarded with huge contracts, trillions of tax dollars and control the resources the "enemy" is living on.

Nation building mode is also a great way to destroy our military defenses who are supposed to be protecting us from attack here instead of making the world safe for corrupt "friendly" regimes all over the planet.

 

[carpro]

In answer to your question, no Carpro America is not at war.

Tell that to our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Unlike you, they may have a perspective that has nothing to do with politics.

 

[poncho]

Tell that to our guys in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Unlike you, they may have a perspective that has nothing to do with politics.

Unlike me most of them are 18 and 19 year olds who still have their ears ringing from all the glorious red white and blue propaganda that's pumped out day and night by the same folks who benefit from all their sacrifices.

Maybe it's time you started telling our guys and gals in Iraq and Afghanistan what they need to hear most, the truth. I know it's not as romantic and glorious as all the hard core gung ho stuff you and they are used to but it's better than continuing to lie to yourself and them.

They're over there so a few wealthy influencial people can gain more wealth, power and control. Where's the honor in dying so a few who already have more than they know what to with can benefit?

I know these two things my old friend. I've told you the truth and you aren't willing to accept it. So, go ahead and try to make me out to be the bad guy while the real bad guys continue to send our kids out to do their dirty work.

Or maybe you've forgotton what Kissinger said of our military men.

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

 

[carpro]

Unlike me most of them are 18 and 19 year olds who still have their ears ringing from all the glorious red white and blue propaganda that's pumped out day and night by the same folks who benefit from all their sacrifices.

I guess that means you don't think they're smart enough to know that, when they are being shot at, it's not war. It's politics.

You're playing semantic games while their lives are on the line in a war, whether you like it or not.

They are giving you the luxury of your word games while they arte busy fighting a war.

Your willingness to crititicize them for their youth and what you consider to be their stupidity shows that you don't appreciate their efforts at all.

I must say I'm slightly surprised at your attitude. Making your point means so much to you that you make fun of them for being so stupid they may not see things the way you, in your ivory tower safe from harm, do.

You should be ashamed.

 

[poncho]

I guess that means you don't think they're smart enough to know that, when they are being shot at, it's not war. It's politics.

You're playing semantic games while their lives are on the line in a war, whether you like it or not.

They are giving you the luxury of your word games while they arte busy fighting a war.

Your willingness to crititicize them for their youth and what you consider to be their stupidity shows that you don't appreciate their efforts at all.

I must say I'm slightly surprised at your attitude. Making your point means so much to you that you make fun of them for being so stupid they may not see things the way you, in your ivory tower safe from harm, do.

You should be ashamed.

Question . . .

If I'm to be ashamed for revealing the truth does that mean you should be honored for countering it with lies?

Keep up the good work Carpro, the international bankers and global corporations couldn't continue to rape the world with out gung ho guys like you in their corner. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[billwald]

Poncho

Agree 100%. The Afghan war is about a natural gas pipe line that the Taliban would not permit and opium production which the Taliban cut by 90%. Three months after the invasion, the gas deal was made and opium production is twice the pre war level.

 

[poncho]

Poncho

Agree 100%. The Afghan war is about a natural gas pipe line that the Taliban would not permit and opium production which the Taliban cut by 90%. Three months after the invasion, the gas deal was made and opium production is twice the pre war level.

Yes but these are just part of the benefits the global elite have reaped from investing our blood and treasure in Eurasia.

Notice how quick guys like our good friend Carpro are to dutifully repeat all Govcorp's red white and blue propaganda points, aka bold faced lies. They have to play it this way because they have no real arguement when faced with the truth. Fact is if they cared half as much about our troops as they claim they'd be the first to condemn these needless nation building efforts and military interventionism, instead of tossing around cliche Goeringisms as if they were debate ending hand grenades.

Nation building isn't about protecting our homeland our freedom or our rights. It's not about liberating helpless masses or even spreading democracy. It's about money, power and control.

Our military people deserve the truth.

 

[carpro]

Question . . .

If I'm to be ashamed for revealing the truth does that mean you should be honored for countering it with lies?

And of course , you are the official abiter of the truth concerning war.

And according to you, our troops are just too young and too stupid to understand?

Ever been shot at, Poncho, by people who truly want you and everyone like you dead?

 

[carpro]

In answer to your question, no Carpro America is not at war.

Tell that to these people and their families.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hvWEqwq3CrRvaQCmt21MfoYhjZJQD9C58VBG5

4 US service members die in Afghan attacks
By HEIDI VOGT (AP) – 2 hours ago

KABUL — Bomb attacks and a firefight killed four U.S. troops in 24 hours in Afghanistan, the military said Monday, adding to the growing toll as NATO and the U.S. consider whether to send more forces to the war.

Three of the Americans died in southern Afghanistan on Sunday, NATO said in a statement. Two of them were killed in a bomb attack and the third in a separate firefight.

The statement said a bomb killed the fourth American in the east Monday.
The deaths bring the number of Americans killed in Afghanistan in November to 15. October was the deadliest month for U.S. troops in the eight-year war, with 58 dead.

 

[Rubato 1]

Tell that to these people and their families.

Carpro: tell me if we were a 'nation at war' under the Adams administration regarding the 'X,Y,Z Affair.' If we were then, we are now; if we weren't then, we aren't now.

I have found that the more people study history the less provocative their discussions about affairs tend to be. You sound like a zealous, patriotic man. I wish more were like you. Yet these types are the people who, if uninformed, are the pawns of despots - just ask Napoleon and Hitler, to name a few.

Be careful what you say and whose agenda you advocate.

IMHO,

 

[Robert Snow]

My question is: Should we be at war?

 

[carpro]

Be careful what you say and whose agenda you advocate.

IMHO,

Heed you own warnings, Bucko.

 

[carpro]

My question is: Should we be at war?

We weren't given a choice. Al Qaeda declared war on us long before the attack of 911. It is because they were ignored that those 3000 people are dead.

Now we have another president that doesn't have a clue what he's involved in. Trying to treat known foreign terrorists like they are common American criminals is a gruesome mistake.

And more Americans will die because of it.

 

[billwald]

My question is: what kind of war is this when only two or three Americans are killed every day and the vast majority of the people at home are not effected at all? Only the families of the volunteers have volunteered to be effected. My family is not effected and I don't know anyone whose family is effected. The people I know are worried because our grandkids will get the bill for this year's wars.

 

[rbell]

Wow, billwald, that's quite the callous response.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

We weren't given a choice. Al Qaeda declared war on us long before the attack of 911. It is because they were ignored that those 3000 people are dead.

Now we have another president that doesn't have a clue what he's involved in. Trying to treat known foreign terrorists like they are common American criminals is a gruesome mistake.

And more Americans will die because of it.

The government is seeking to punish the terrorists! What do you not get about that? Why are you so scared? Here's why the government is seeking indictment in United States District Court: the flawed military commissions system has returned 2 convictions, while United States District Courts have tried and convicted over 300 terrorism cases. Secondly, there is a legal issue and that is can material support for terrorists be considered an offence under the law of war in the traditional sense of that term. If not, then military commissions can not be used. This site has more details.

I've asked you this before and you ignored the question so I'll ask again: What should we do about the 1996 indictment that a Federal Grand Jury returned against Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?

 

[carpro]

The government is seeking to punish the terrorists!

Once again, JG...

Why do you reject a guilty plea to a military tribunal in favor of the risks and media circus associated with a New York trial?

The government, ie Holder and the zero, are seeking to make a political statement. Punishing a terrorist is secondary.

They won't answer the above question either.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Once again, JG...

Why do you reject a guilty plea to a military tribunal in favor of the risks and media circus associated with a New York trial?

Who's JG? My name's Paul. Feel free to use it.

The military commission was suspended before he entered the plea. There are 3 reasons to have a trial in United States District Court. The first is because the material support to terrorists charge may not be a traditional law of war violation as I previously stated. The second is a United States District Court trial in the Southern District of New York makes a positive statement that we are willing to be fair and trust our court system. The final one is because of the ineffectiveness of the military commission system.

So, once again, what about the 1996 indictment?

 

[rbell]

Who's JG? My name's Paul. Feel free to use it.

The military commission was suspended before he entered the plea. There are 3 reasons to have a trial in United States District Court. The first is because the material support to terrorists charge may not be a traditional law of war violation as I previously stated. The second is a United States District Court trial in the Southern District of New York makes a positive statement that we are willing to be fair and trust our court system. The final one is because of the ineffectiveness of the military commission system.

So, once again, what about the 1996 indictment?

Who cares about the 1996 indictment???

These folks are terrorists. Not citizens!!!

They do not deserve Constitutional protection!!!

Who cares about "trusting the court system?"

I trust the rule of law. So should you. Who cares what anyone "feels?"

Good grief...what a dangerous view.

 

[billwald]

Callous to promote a war that doesn't cost you anything. We must be a nation of politicians.