John I Morris
Member
That is an un-Biblical teaching. There is no discussion needed. Baptists follow the Bible not an individuals "experience", or at least the Biblical ones follow Scripture.
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Is anyone interested in "the baptism with the Holy Spirit"?
- Thread starter Samuels
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John I Morris
Member
A text out of context, is a pretext, not a proof text.
All I ever have asked for would be those supporting this position to give a verse where God commands us to seek the Baptism in Holy Spirit after once saved, but there are none!
The Bible commands the redeemed to keep on being refilled with/in/by the Holy Spirit after salvation, but not to seek any Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Notice Paul said the disciples were not saved. He could spiritually discern something missing down deep within....
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve. - Acts 19
I could imagine that after this event they twelve could preach a whole lot more effectively. It would help if we were to have someone lay hands on today's ministers. Many of them are educated as never before... Still yet... There is something missing deep within.
I agree.
Those Paul preached the Gospel to knew of Messiah to come from John, and yet not Jesus as One who died and rose again... Not a good proof text for this doctrine!
Since there are none, that would suggest that we all have experienced that in our lives onced saved!
The KJV has been used way beyond incredible over the years by God's people.I have many Bibles in storage and for reading.
They are all "King James Version".
Whatever you are using, I prefer mine.
Butski, the brethren need to be wary of such little nicities as this:
Matthew 24:25 KJV says, "before" ... as "in the past, previously". WRONG
Matthew 24:25 NKJV says, "beforehand" ... as "in da future". CORRECT
C'mon, we're talking about the necessity of ...
-- you hearing Jesus' voice
-- Him "knowing" you
-- you following Jesus
... in John 10:27 ...
These are the conditions for one to benefit from John 10:28-29
Deadly filtering
Don't filter the NT through whatever denomination you're involved in!
You notice that WITH sprinkling kind of parallels UPON,
as opposed to INside.
So, don't seek it then!
You use it, but you don't understand what it means?
'Tis NO wonder that you never fit in with Pentecostals/Charismatics!
You don't believe any of their beliefs! ... Just great.
Jesus death and resurrection alone saves us, and God applies towards us saving grace of Calvary thry faith alone!
No need to seek it, as all saved have Him already in full!
I know what scriptures say it is, but what do you say it is?
These 2 passages are specifically about “baptized with the Holy Spirit”.
“And being assembled together with them, He (Jesus) commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” … “But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8)
“And as I (Peter) began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us …” (Acts 11:15-17)
These 2 passages show that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is “the Promise” and “the gift”
… where the Holy Spirit falls “upon” people resulting in spiritual “power”.
Now, in the chart below, we see the Holy Spirit comes “upon” as a result of laying on of hands (5).
People are filled with the Spirit (4), receive spiritual power (5), speak in tongues (3),
do miracles (6), and prophesy (2). The number of associated passages are in brackets.
Not all of these things always happens!
None of these things is mentioned in every instance of this baptism.
Some always happen, and some do not.
All of the details of an historical event are NOT usually reported.
In the NT, it would be too boring to repeat the same things over and over again.
Please notice how these details are inter-connected (linked together) in the chart.
1 Luke 24:49 ~~~~~~ 9 Acts 8:14-19
2 Acts 1:4-8 ~~~~~ 10 Acts 9:17-18
3 Acts 2:1-4 ~~~~~ 11 Acts 10:44-48
4 Acts 2:17-20 ~~~ 12 Acts 11:15-17
5 Acts 2:33-39 ~~~ 13 Acts 14:3
6 Acts 4:8-16 ~~~~ 14 Acts 19:5-6
7 Acts 4:31 ~~~~~~ 15 Romans 15:19
8 Acts 5:12
------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
the Promise --------Y-Y-----Y--------------------------
baptism with H.S. ----Y----------------------Y---------
the gift -------------------Y-------------Y--Y---------
upon ---------------Y-Y-Y-Y---------Y-----Y--Y-----Y---
laying on of hands ---------------Y-Y--Y--------Y--Y---
filled with H.S. -------Y-----Y-Y------Y---------------
speaking tongues -------Y-----------------Y--------Y---
power --------------Y-Y-------------Y-----Y-----------Y
boldness ---------------------Y-Y---------------Y------
miracles -----------------Y---Y---Y----Y--------Y-----Y
prophesying --------------Y------------------------Y---
“And being assembled together with them, He (Jesus) commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” … “But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me … to the end of the earth.” (Acts 1:4-8)
“And as I (Peter) began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us …” (Acts 11:15-17)
These 2 passages show that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is “the Promise” and “the gift”
… where the Holy Spirit falls “upon” people resulting in spiritual “power”.
Now, in the chart below, we see the Holy Spirit comes “upon” as a result of laying on of hands (5).
People are filled with the Spirit (4), receive spiritual power (5), speak in tongues (3),
do miracles (6), and prophesy (2). The number of associated passages are in brackets.
Not all of these things always happens!
None of these things is mentioned in every instance of this baptism.
Some always happen, and some do not.
All of the details of an historical event are NOT usually reported.
In the NT, it would be too boring to repeat the same things over and over again.
Please notice how these details are inter-connected (linked together) in the chart.
1 Luke 24:49 ~~~~~~ 9 Acts 8:14-19
2 Acts 1:4-8 ~~~~~ 10 Acts 9:17-18
3 Acts 2:1-4 ~~~~~ 11 Acts 10:44-48
4 Acts 2:17-20 ~~~ 12 Acts 11:15-17
5 Acts 2:33-39 ~~~ 13 Acts 14:3
6 Acts 4:8-16 ~~~~ 14 Acts 19:5-6
7 Acts 4:31 ~~~~~~ 15 Romans 15:19
8 Acts 5:12
------------------- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
the Promise --------Y-Y-----Y--------------------------
baptism with H.S. ----Y----------------------Y---------
the gift -------------------Y-------------Y--Y---------
upon ---------------Y-Y-Y-Y---------Y-----Y--Y-----Y---
laying on of hands ---------------Y-Y--Y--------Y--Y---
filled with H.S. -------Y-----Y-Y------Y---------------
speaking tongues -------Y-----------------Y--------Y---
power --------------Y-Y-------------Y-----Y-----------Y
boldness ---------------------Y-Y---------------Y------
miracles -----------------Y---Y---Y----Y--------Y-----Y
prophesying --------------Y------------------------Y---
I do not believe that ones experiences and revelations are to be used to determine ones theology!
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
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