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Is Arminianism heresy?

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Gerhard Ebersoehn

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"Turn Thou me and I shall be turned : FOR THOU ART THE LORD MY GOD.
Surely after that I was turned, I repented ... I was ashamed, even confounded." Jeremiah 31:18,19.
 

robustheologian

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Said the Calvinist who gets his Penal Substitutionary Atonement Theory via the Roman Catholic Anselm's Satisfaction Theory. :rolleyes:

What?!? In one fell swoop, you just demonstrated your lack of understanding of Christ's atonement and Calvinism. Only an Arminian would confuse penal substitution with Anselmian satisfaction. :laugh:
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>

It's easy to <define> oneself out of the hot water. SDAs do that.

You're either a free grace believer or a free will believer. There is no in between.

There is Cal, Arm. and non-Cal.
I am non-Cal. I prefer to call my position "Biblicist," but someone took that moniker, so I will just say that I have the Biblical one.

The Aminians believe one can lose their salvation. I don't.
The Arminians believe in entire sanctification. I don't.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Arminian vs Wesleyan

from: https://wesleyanarminian.wordpress....son-of-wesleyanism-and-classical-arminianism/

Wesleyanism and Classical Arminianism have much in common, however, there are a few differences. Here’s a list that compares some of the differences in belief. These are generalities, as particular beliefs often vary from person to person. And some of these categories overlap a bit. For example: One’s view of sanctification influences one’s view of righteousness.

Sanctification / Holiness:
Wesleyans place an emphasis on entire sanctification (although perhaps less so though than they used to). Classical Arminians do not hold to entire sanctification. Wesleyans teach that Christians can be completely sanctified in this lifetime, and can live a holy life. Sanctification is not only inward, it is also outward, and motivates a life of service. John Wesley called this “Holiness of Heart and Life”. Some Wesleyans see this as a process. Some see it as an instant second work of grace. Some a combination of the two. J Kenneth Grider has a book about this. Entire Sanctification: The Distinctive Doctrine of Wesleyanism.

Atonement: Wesleyans often hold to the moral government view of the atonement. Jesus suffered and died as a governmental act to show that God was displeased with the sin of man. Anyone who accepts the suffering of Jesus will be saved. Classical Arminians usually hold to substitutionary atonement. Jesus died as a substitute for mankind, taking our place. Those who believe will be saved. It should be noted that John Wesley himself held to substitutionary atonement. However, most of his followers have held to the governmental view, particularly since the late 1800’s. This was the view originally articulated by the Remonstrant Hugo Grotius, and later advocated by evangelist Charles Finney, and Methodist theologian John Miley.
Forfeiting Salvation: Wesleyans believe salvation can be forfeited by a deliberately sinful life. It can be regained by repentance. Classical Arminians have different opinions on the matter. Some agree with Wesleyans that salvation can be forfeited and regained. Some believe that if salvation is forfeited it cannot be regained again. Some believe that salvation cannot be forfeited. Arminius himself never took a position on this issue. As a side note, I think there is a trend toward identifying with Classical Arminianism among some in the SBC, because they can still hold to “once saved always saved”. This is good. Calvinism has become very divisive among the SBC and the folks who believe that Jesus died for the world are taking another look at Arminianism.


Righteousness: Wesleyans believe in imputed righteousness and imparted righteousness. Classical Arminians generally hold to only imputed righteousness. Imputed righteousness is a forensic righteousness before God. It teaches that that we are still sinful at heart after becoming Christians, but God the Father ignores our sin because of our faith in Jesus. When he looks at us he sees the righteousness of Jesus instead of our sin. Imparted righteousness teaches that we are acceptable to the Father because the blood of Jesus has really made us pure and has changed us inside. We are holy in God’s sight because Jesus has genuinely made us so.

Spirit Focus: Wesleyans place a priority on the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and gifts of the Spirit (healing, prophesy, etc). Charismatic Wesleyans also hold that the gift of tongues is one of the evidences of the filling of the Spirit. Classical Arminians believe in the filling of the Spirit, but generally have less focus on gifts of the Spirit.

Foreknowledge: Wesleyans are more friendly to open theism, although many also hold to classical foreknowledge. Open theism teaches that God does not exhaustively know the future because the future is open and cannot be known. Classical Arminians believe that God exhaustively knows the future.
 

BobRyan

Well-Known Member
Said the Calvinist who gets his Penal Substitutionary Atonement Theory via the Roman Catholic Anselm's Satisfaction Theory. :rolleyes:

It is true that Calvin was a believer in penal substitution.

So also am I because of the "to whom the stroke was due" language in Isaiah 53 (for example).

But Calvin was weak on the subject of atonement.

in Christ,

Bob
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
That's interesting. So are you saying that all Arminians hold to Perfectionism?
Yes, they believe that they can come to that point in their life where they do not sin any longer. It is called entire sanctification. That is one of the two points where Whitefield had to separate from the Wesleys, even though he was highly influenced by them in his early years to become a Christian. However, they remained good friends even till his dying days despite their differences.
 

Rebel

Active Member
What?!? In one fell swoop, you just demonstrated your lack of understanding of Christ's atonement and Calvinism. Only an Arminian would confuse penal substitution with Anselmian satisfaction. :laugh:

Don't tell me that I don't understand. The atonement is a specialty of mine. PSA is a development of Satisfaction. Further, I am not an Arminian. I do not hold to total depravity, nor the governmental theory of atonement.

I suggest further study for you so that in the future you won't make incorrect statements. Especially study the atonement. You'll see that fundie Calvinists who bash Roman Catholics are really bashing their cousins -- that is, as far as the atonement goes.
 

Rebel

Active Member
Yes, they believe that they can come to that point in their life where they do not sin any longer. It is called entire sanctification. That is one of the two points where Whitefield had to separate from the Wesleys, even though he was highly influenced by them in his early years to become a Christian. However, they remained good friends even till his dying days despite their differences.

DHK, the Freewill Baptists don't hold to entire sanctification.
 

robustheologian

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Don't tell me that I don't understand. The atonement is a specialty of mine.

Really?

Further, I am not an Arminian. I do not hold to total depravity, nor the governmental theory of atonement.

So then you agree that you're a Pelagian?

You'll see that fundie Calvinists who bash Roman Catholics are really bashing their cousins -- that is, as far as the atonement goes.

68999.jpg
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
DHK, the Freewill Baptists don't hold to entire sanctification.
Yes. Simply because a person believes one can come to Christ of their own free will does not make them an Arminian. That is a mischaracterization of the Calvinist. They use the term "Arminian" in a derogatory manner. Half the time they don't know what they are talking about and are just parroting what some other person has said.
 

Gerhard Ebersoehn

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It is true that Calvin was a believer in penal substitution.

So also am I because of the "to whom the stroke was due" language in Isaiah 53 (for example).

But Calvin was weak on the subject of atonement.

in Christ,

Bob

There is only one 'at-one-ment' with God and that is Jesus Christ. Never in ourselves.

That is why in every 'sanctification' or 'sanctity' verse in the New Testament, 'our sanctification' like our justification like our righteousness IS CHRIST AND IS IN HIM.

"Without holiness no one shall see God" or come into his Presence or share in his Glory. And that holiness is Jesus "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Learnedness in 'Atonement' or in 'Atonement Theology' is academic rant; no more.

 

Rebel

Active Member
Yes. Simply because a person believes one can come to Christ of their own free will does not make them an Arminian. That is a mischaracterization of the Calvinist. They use the term "Arminian" in a derogatory manner. Half the time they don't know what they are talking about and are just parroting what some other person has said.

Seems like some of them use lots of terms in a derogatory manner. Some Calvinists, maybe even many, seem to have contempt for non-Calvinists. I dislike and disagree with Calvinism, but I don't extend that to the individuals themselves. I have Calvinist close friends who are not jerks.
 
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