Featured Is believing/faith a work ?2

Yea lookin at it lol I was having a discussion with Austin and you slipped in and I did look closely your icons apparently look alike when blurry lol sorry again

 

Trust is elpis. Faith is pistis. Different words.

 

It was the right box. I just don’t process or express anything by the same terms and concepts you have shared.

 

I understand what your saying as for what the the words are as to the translation. I was being an ass assuming we where both expressing it in the same way Where I’m from that’s the common use that’s why when I feel like that maybe. The issue and not the actual discussion I try to give other words in its place. To show what I’m saying. I’m. From Louisiana vocabulary has a life of its own out here and when discussing Bible I forget a lot of people translate the original using words in the manner they were meant and not just using blah blah blah short story assuming is consistent when making a fool lol

 

Well said I would love to be able to put my explanation together in such clearly stated and orderly manner. Had I seen this earlier iwould have just quoted this for my responses

 

How do dead men repent before being reborn? Read Ephesians 2:1-9.

Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else. But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus. God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Read Romans 3:10-18.

As the Scriptures say, “No one is righteous— not even one. No one is truly wise; no one is seeking God. All have turned away; all have become useless. No one does good, not a single one.” “Their talk is foul, like the stench from an open grave. Their tongues are filled with lies.” “Snake venom drips from their lips.” “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” “They rush to commit murder. Destruction and misery always follow them. They don’t know where to find peace.” “They have no fear of God at all.”

See the above passages.
Let's go farther.
Romans 8:28-33
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
Ephesians 1:3-14
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Let's take a look at the new covenant that is given to God's chosen people as a Will, written to those who will inherit salvation.
Hebrews 9:11-12,15-17,24,27-28

So Christ has now become the High Priest over all the good things that have come. He has entered that greater, more perfect Tabernacle in heaven, which was not made by human hands and is not part of this created world.

With his own blood—not the blood of goats and calves—he entered the Most Holy Place once for all time and secured our redemption forever. That is why he is the one who mediates a new covenant between God and people, so that all who are called can receive the eternal inheritance God has promised them. For Christ died to set them free from the penalty of the sins they had committed under that first covenant.

Now when someone leaves a will, it is necessary to prove that the person who made it is dead. The will goes into effect only after the person’s death. While the person who made it is still alive, the will cannot be put into effect.

For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with human hands, which was only a copy of the true one in heaven. He entered into heaven itself to appear now before God on our behalf. And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

Read these passages and consider what God is telling you. Will you still foll Jesus when you realize that He is in control of your life and it is only because of his merciful choice to save you that you now believe.
The hymn writer, John Newton, called it this:
Amazing Grace

I encourage you to read your Bible. I once had similar views to your own, but in reading the Bible, I couldn't deny God's sovereign rule in choosing to be merciful to whom he wills.
Romans 9:14-16
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

 

You assume wrong. Salvation is the sole work being God's doing following an act of faith according to God's will. Romans 4:5.

 

Not according to the word of God, Romans 4:5, ". . . But to him that worketh not, but believeth . . . ."

 

The problem you are having is you do not know how to define bible salvation. So, everyone is speaking to one another here as if each person shares the same understanding and definitions as the collective. That is not true and I will start a thread later and title it something like this, "what is your definition of salvation" and I am fully confident that your definition will be off center and maybe even weird.

Under this thread title, faith and works, you are posting silly logic that does not even resemble the biblical doctrines of the Christian faith and your efforts seems to be to teach your own perverted Calvinism views and without any regard to context. So, I can understand why you would be offended that someone would attempt to correct you with the scriptures and you would think it a rabbit trail.

This is too important to get wrong, friend.

Salvation is by grace through faith. It is not by faith through grace like you teach. Faith is not a grace and it is not a work.

 

You have the cart before the horse.
I will rephrase your assertion to correct it.
"Salvation is the sole work being God's doing according to God's will, which is the cause that initiates the effect known as faith."

Reading Hebrews 11, we see what faith is.
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
The best understanding of faith, that I have heard, comes from Pastor John Piper who explains faith as such:

Faith is the God given capacity to see beyond what the world sees and see the evidence that God has provided.
The world cannot see what the Christian sees because they do not have faith.
Jesus is the author of faith. He gives faith to all whom the Father has given him.

No unsaved, Godless, dead in trespasses, person can have faith to see what they, by their nature and slavery to sin, cannot possibly see. God must open their eyes so they can see, by faith.

Therefore, any attempt to give faith to a Godless person so that they are the cause that effects God is pure false teaching.

Finally, you need to stop this foolish cherry picking of sentences that ignore the context of God's word. Look at Paul's argument in Romans 4 and see that your assertion and claim is contrary to what Paul is saying.

Romans 4:1-8
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

 

God's word says "to him that worketh not, but believeth." πιστευοντι active voice.

 

No amount of any man's work of any kind will save. So unless God saves because of His promise one is toast.