Is Cal/Non-Cal important enough to divide?

[Iconoclast]

[/I][/B]
Icon, you had me until here.

QF,
Follow the thread....connect the dots...why would any Cal go where the people are opposed to the truth? He statement is at this time he believes it is error. Any calvinist wants to hear the whole counsel of God.....not wimpy sermonettes about the cat caught up in the tree, or the little dog who died.
God has ordained preaching of all truth.

I would wager that if you looked at his pastors sermons in the past 2 years you would most likely not find one dealing with God's covenant..that goes into any detail...and the reason is the people cannot deal with it...because they are not fed. I would like to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I agree with you. I meant it just the way you put it.

But, it is the Calvinists that continuously make slurs about regular Christians being "ignorant" and "spititual babes".

Why is it that you can insult millions of Christians, but you get all upset when one Christian fires back at you with some truths?

John

John, since you have come on this board, you have had a chip on your shoulder. That's something you need to work out because what your doing is nothing short of disrespecting others & cloaking it in a veil of "Tit for Tat". Do you not see it, I am trying to be frank with you. Your commentary is nothing short of insult & I would very much appreciate your stopping it now. Nobody here is your enemy....yes we can even poke fun at one another but you, more often then not, cross the line to a biting insult. If they are pushing your buttons, you have recourse to report the offender to a moderator & you can also use the privacy / ignore feature to not see the offender.

John, I consider you a brother in Christ & do not want to see you sinking into unchristian like conduct. Please do not consider what I say to be an insult, rather providing advise (and doing it in love & not viciously).

Thank you & God Bless you.

 

[seekingthetruth]

John, since you have come on this board, you have had a chip on your shoulder. That's something you need to work out because what your doing is nothing short of disrespecting others & cloaking it in a veil of "Tit for Tat". Do you not see it, I am trying to be frank with you. Your commentary is nothing short of insult & I would very much appreciate your stopping it now. Nobody here is your enemy....yes we can even poke fun at one another but you, more often then not, cross the line to a biting insult. If they are pushing your buttons, you have recourse to report the offender to a moderator & you can also use the privacy / ignore feature to not see the offender.

John, I consider you a brother in Christ & do not want to see you sinking into unchristian like conduct. Please do not consider what I say to be an insult, rather providing advise (and doing it in love & not viciously).

Thank you & God Bless you.

Yes, I have a huge chip when it comes to Calvinists. It never bothered me before I came to the BB. They had their church, and I had mine.

But within a week of being on the BB I was attacked by you a little, and Luke and JesusFan ALOT!!!!!

I am southern, my Dad's family were redneck moonshiners from Alabama, and my Mom's faimly were hillbillies from way up in the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas...( I am talking like Jed Clampett hillbilly). I call myself half redneck and half hillbilly.

I said that to say this, it is not in my blood to back down from a fight or to take crap from anyone. In fact, I actually enjoy a good fued.

When the Calvinist attaked me I got furious. It is my belief that you guys assault new people immediately to see where they stand on the Cal/regualar Christian issue, and then do all you can to convert them to Calvinism.
Even to the point where you ridicule them and their faith so much that they leave the BB. Well, I am not one to back down or leave.

If you tell me that my faith is one of ignorance, or that my pastor is an infidel, or that I don't believe or understand the truth of the Bible, then yes, i will respond with fury, because those things are lies.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Dont insult my Lord Jesus, my faith in Him, my church, my pastor, and most especially my mama, and we wont have any problems.

John

 

[Iconoclast]

seeking truth

I despise Reformed Theology, and the damage it is doing to God's people.

I did not wish to go this far in this discussion, but your flippant and arrogant remarks demand it.

You just to get that little jab in at the end didnt you?

Well, since you started us down this road....I believe that Calvinism comes straight from the pits of Hell, with the intent to discourage lost people from responding to God for fear not being one of the "elect'

Far from being flippant or arrogant....my remarks on your previous post were right on the money.
What you called ...."my last little jab" was exactly the truth. Your hatred and opposition to the truth is oooozzing out like a pus that must be cleaned out by peroxide or whatever they use now to cleanse the filth out.

You stated your opposition up front...and I said that was fine. Your uninformed posting here however exposes your error. You say you can offer correction but you cannot.....you John.....like I posted earlier...will now make your snide remarks and disappear.

You and others like you stand in opposition to The God revealed in the bible.
I made the remarks I did so you do not just think your little stance of...we will allow calvinists to visit and listen....but we do not want them to spread their error...maybe they can learn about our freewill idol....does not cut it.

None of the prohets or Ap[ostles could be members there because they taught all these truths you despise.
john this is good and therapeutic for you...let it all out...then the healing can begin:1_grouphug:

What do you think I would say to you??? Nice post John...continue in your error and rebellion..Keep on closing your mind to truth????
You are not the first person who feels as you do...and not the last.

We each can stand where we stand....and take it forward. Have a nice day.
Those Calvinists who visited probably could not flee fast enough.

 

[seekingthetruth]

seeking truth






Far from being flippant or arrogant....my remarks on your previous post were right on the money.
What you called ...."my last little jab" was exactly the truth. Your hatred and opposition to the truth is oooozzing out like a pus that must be cleaned out by peroxide or whatever they use now to cleanse the filth out.

You stated your opposition up front...and I said that was fine. Your uninformed posting here however exposes your error. You say you can offer correction but you cannot.....you John.....like I posted earlier...will now make your snide remarks and disappear.

You and others like you stand in opposition to The God revealed in the bible.
I made the remarks I did so you do not just think your little stance of...we will allow calvinists to visit and listen....but we do not want them to spread their error...maybe they can learn about our freewill idol....does not cut it.

None of the prohets or Ap[ostles could be members there because they taught all these truths you despise.
john this is good and therapeutic for you...let it all out...then the healing can begin:1_grouphug:

What do you think I would say to you??? Nice post John...continue in your error and rebellion..Keep on closing your mind to truth????
You are not the first person who feels as you do...and not the last.

We each can stand where we stand....and take it forward. Have a nice day.
Those Calvinists who visited probably could not flee fast enough.

Wrong Icon

My church teaches the truth, reformed theology is a man-made lie.

You are the one who is wrong and teaching a false doctrine, not me

John

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast might have earned a little agitating.

It is okay jonC.....i would rather have people be open and honest ..than to put up a religious veener that is shallow. I have spoken many times with those like John who go off ....it is okay...he can be as critical as he wants...if he could do so scripturally however it would be better. I do not think he can:thumbsup:

 

[Iconoclast]

Wrong Icon

My church teaches the truth, reformed theology is a man-made lie.

You are the one who is wrong and teaching a false doctrine, not me

John

Are your churc h sermons online...i will listen and see if it is so???/ this way I do not have to visit and convert anyone to the DoG.

 

[seekingthetruth]

It is okay jonC.....i would rather have people be open and honest ..than to put up a religious veener that is shallow. I have spoken many times with those like John who go off ....it is okay...he can be as critical as he wants...if he could do so scripturally however it would be better. I do not think he can:thumbsup:

You cannot show me one scripture to back your theology. All you can do is piece together several scriptures, take them out of context and give life to a man-made lie.

Straight from the pits of Hell

John

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, I have a huge chip when it comes to Calvinists. It never bothered me before I came to the BB. They had their church, and I had mine.

But within a week of being on the BB I was attacked by you a little, and Luke and JesusFan ALOT!!!!!

I am southern, my Dad's family were redneck moonshiners from Alabama, and my Mom's faimly were hillbillies from way up in the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas...( I am talking like Jed Clampett hillbilly). I call myself half redneck and half hillbilly.

I said that to say this, it is not in my blood to back down from a fight or to take crap from anyone. In fact, I actually enjoy a good fued.

When the Calvinist attaked me I got furious. It is my belief that you guys assault new people immediately to see where they stand on the Cal/regualar Christian issue, and then do all you can to convert them to Calvinism.
Even to the point where you ridicule them and their faith so much that they leave the BB. Well, I am not one to back down or leave.

If you tell me that my faith is one of ignorance, or that my pastor is an infidel, or that I don't believe or understand the truth of the Bible, then yes, i will respond with fury, because those things are lies.

John

If you were "attacked' it was probably for the error and attack you made on scripture.....and it turns out according to your posting here...it was exactly correct to do so. you are standing against the Historic faith of millions of christians....moonshine not withstanding:thumbsup:

 

[seekingthetruth]

Are your churc h sermons online...i will listen and see if it is so???/ this way I do not have to visit and convert anyone to the DoG.

First of all, we dont do radio, tv, or internet.

Secondly, if you tried to come to our church and spread the cancer you call Dog, you would quickly be put out, probably on your rear.

John

 

[Iconoclast]

You cannot show me one scripture to back your theology. All you can do is piece together several scriptures, take them out of context and give life to a man-made lie.

Straight from the pits of Hell

John

Well...not everyone will receive or welcome truth...you are so set in your rebellion that .... you cannot welcome truth.....truth comes from the Spirit of God......Jn 3;27 1cor 2:14-15.....when the time comes when you are looking ...many of the verses you now reject will become clear to you

First of all, we dont do radio, tv, or internet.

Secondly, if you tried to come to our church and spread the cancer you call Dog, you would quickly be put out, probably on your rear.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Well ....if all those are so loving as you are here.....very godly response....

good thing you keep it contained in the backwoods my friend....maybe missionaries will come in there some time and help Y'all out:thumbsup:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

QF,
Follow the thread....connect the dots...why would any Cal go where the people are opposed to the truth? He statement is at this time he believes it is error. Any calvinist wants to hear the whole counsel of God.....not wimpy sermonettes about the cat caught up in the tree, or the little dog who died.
God has ordained preaching of all truth.

I would wager that if you looked at his pastors sermons in the past 2 years you would most likely not find one dealing with God's covenant..that goes into any detail...and the reason is the people cannot deal with it...because they are not fed. I would like to be pleasantly surprised.

Frankly, Ive sat in on some sermons by Reformed Pastors that dont hit the mark either ...... but on the overall, RB's provide good sermons. I also have seen RB Churches that are dead & dont know it yet. It is heart braking to admit, but I will not sit in a pew of a dead church. Perhaps that means I am difficult but if the Lord saved me (at the advanced old age of 53), then I am going to honor Him by learning as much as I can & trying to perfect myself as much as possible up until I return to the Father.

Now I do not disagree with brothers who indicated they cannot sit in a church that they feel is misrepresenting God, nor should they sit & not be fed the meat they require, nor should one disrupt the church direction....So Icono, I do concur with you in your decision....however folks like the two Tom's & Glfrederick have chosen another path & I applaud that as well. In summation, we do not measure the brethren by the caliber of their soteriology, eschatology, Psychology, Zoology whatever, but by how much they love & honor God & love their brethren. Thats what we should all be focusing on.

Blessings

 

[Jerome]

Ed Stetzer, himself "Reformed in theology" according to glfredrick, is quite up-front in encouraging Calvinism-obsessed people to 'move on' when they begin attending his church:

http://www.edstetzer.com/2011/10/why-i-have-no-difficulty-helpi.html

In most cases, I've decided that "this is not the church for you" is actually the right response for "issue Christians"

"We are not one of those churches that you would think talks about prophecy enough—this would not be the right church for you, but I do hope your search for a church home goes well." You see, I don't spend a lot of time with "issue Christians." It's not just the issue of prophecy either. I've had similar conversations with "issue Calvinists," "issue political Christians," "issue charismatics," "issue homeschoolers," and many others.

Some "issue Christians" have divisive views--you don't need them to fit in at your church's expense. You can disagree in our church (to a reasonable degree) and still be a part--I've pastored cessationists, charismatics, Calvinists, and Arminians all in the same church. The issues are not the issue, it is that this person wants to make them an issue. Simply, "issue Christians" generally do not fit in well in a mission-focused congregation.

"Issue Christians" love to debate and display their knowledge. It is not good stewardship of your time to have these debates and you are not being a good steward of your church to let them loose inside.

My experience is that people like this get "cut off" all the time. So, I say, "Thanks Joe, but that's not what we are passionate about here--I do encourage you to find a church that is passionate about what your issues." Surprisingly, that does not generally offend--people like that have been cut off many times before this time.

So, let me encourage you to thank "issue Christians" for their passion and time, and encourage them to find a church home that fits their values. Of course, I should say, this is different if someone comes to me confused on an issue. In that case, we can counsel and provide more information.

In conclusion, we should always provide guidance, but we should not always provide a platform. "Issue Christians" want a platform with you and your church because they are passionate about an issue--don't let that distract you or your church from being and doing all that God has in store. Move on... and move them on.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Frankly, Ive sat in on some sermons by Reformed Pastors that dont hit the mark either ...... but on the overall, RB's provide good sermons. I also have seen RB Churches that are dead & dont know it yet. It is heart braking to admit, but I will not sit in a pew of a dead church. Perhaps that means I am difficult but if the Lord saved me (at the advanced old age of 53), then I am going to honor Him by learning as much as I can & trying to perfect myself as much as possible up until I return to the Father.

Now I do not disagree with brothers who indicated they cannot sit in a church that they feel is misrepresenting God, nor should they sit & not be fed the meat they require, nor should one disrupt the church direction....So Icono, I do concur with you in your decision....however folks like the two Tom's & Glfrederick have chosen another path & I applaud that as well. In summation, we do not measure the brethren by the caliber of their soteriology, eschatology, Psychology, Zoology whatever, but by how much they love & honor God & love their brethren. Thats what we should all be focusing on.

Blessings

EFW, I agree with this 100%

It's people like Icon though that cant stand someone having a different view of God's sovereignty than he does, that make the gap wider than it needs to be.

He is a perfect example of who I was talking about when I said that Calvinists seem to be more interested in converted those heathern Christians to Calvinism than they are about converting Lost souls to Christ.

I would guess that Icon has a hard time doing either one

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Ed Stetzer, himself "Reformed in theology" according to glfredrick, is quite up-front in encouraging Calvinism-obsessed people to 'move on' when they begin attending his church:

http://www.edstetzer.com/2011/10/why-i-have-no-difficulty-helpi.html

Icon wouldnt last long there

John

 

[Winman]

It is okay jonC.....i would rather have people be open and honest ..than to put up a religious veener that is shallow. I have spoken many times with those like John who go off ....it is okay...he can be as critical as he wants...if he could do so scripturally however it would be better. I do not think he can:thumbsup:

Pure baloney, myself and others constantly show scripture that refutes Calvinism. I started a thread called "Easier?" that absolutely refutes Unconditional Election. If election is unconditional, why would it be more difficult for a rich man to be saved? It wouldn't.

But that is only one example, myself and others have shown dozens, if not hundreds of scriptures that disagree and refute Calvinism.

Another example is regeneration. You Calvinists claim that regeneration precedes faith. I have challenged you Calvinists a dozen times to show even one verse in all the Bible that says this. To this date, not one of you has ever shown even one verse that supports your false doctrine.

But to the contrary, I have probably shown a dozen scriptures that clearly says a person must believe before having life. You cannot refute it.

So, this statement that we cannot show scripture is pure baloney, it is YOU that cannot show scripture, I and others present scripture all the time.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you were "attacked' it was probably for the error and attack you made on scripture.....and it turns out according to your posting here...it was exactly correct to do so. you are standing against the Historic faith of millions of christians....moonshine not withstanding:thumbsup:

:laugh::laugh:

Plus he throws wild punches insulting Faithful Pastors and kin in my family who have devoted their lives to the glorification of the Lord. Good work!

 

[Jerome]

There are Calvinists, and there then there are CALVINISTS:

"It is one thing to believe in the Doctrines of Grace, but quite another thing to accept all the encrustations which have formed upon those doctrines and also a very different matter to agree with the spirit which is apparent in some who profess to propagate the pure Truth of God." —Charles Spurgeon

"I admit that some called, Calvinists, are the most quarrelsome set breathing, this is the reason—while they have the main part of the Truth of God, many of them are leaving out something important—therefore God chastises them because they are some of His best children! It may be a sign of life that they are so eager after Truth that they kill one another in order to get it, but I wish they would leave off their quarrelling, for it is a disgrace to our religion. If they had more peace, I might hope better for the progress of Truth. Everyone says to me—“Look there at your Brothers and Sisters! I never saw such a set of cut-throats in my life! I never saw a Church where they have the Gospel, where they are not always falling out!” Well, that is near the truth and I am ashamed to confess it." —Charles Spurgeon

"Perhaps it is the Calvinistic doctrine which they have received, and then the five points are as dear to them as their five senses. These men will contend, not to say earnestly, but savagely for the faith. They very vehemently denounce all those who differ from them in the smallest degree; and deal damnation round the land with amazing liberality to all who are not full weight according to the balance of their little Zoar, Rehoboth, or Jireh: while all the while the spirit of Christ, the love of the Spirit, bowels of compassion, and holiness of character are no more to be expected from them than grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles." —Charles Spurgeon

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Now I have Hank Williams Sr songs in my head....:laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvW6_-TP5cs