Is defending yourself really that bad?

[canadyjd]

Early reports were that stuff had been stolen and the "jogger" matched the video.

You are going to race pimp this. Your mind is made up. You think we are all a bunch of racist rednecks. Go right on thinking that.

What did they father/son know when they got their guns and went looking for this man? That’s the question.

There was no time for “early reports” or to look at videos. All they knew was a black man in a white t-shirt had walked into the construction site, briefly, and then left. Maybe they assumed, like you, he was a burglar. Just like you said. They got “real mad”. Why exactly were they so mad?

Did they call police? Apparently not until after they got their guns, hunted him down and shot him to death. It happened within 6 mins.

Why do you assume I believe they, or you, are racist red-necks? I’ve never used that terminology.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

So you know for a fact they got mad - or or you just assuming?

No, I don’t know for a fact they got mad.

Just to review, I posted that I was trying to understand what kind of mindset it would take to grab your guns and chase a man down for trespassing.

Reynolds responded that it was burglary, not trespassing, and that people get real mad when their stuff gets stolen.

Now, that makes sense to me. That is; someone needs to be real mad at someone else to chase them down with guns and shoot them to death.

But the facts are that nothing was stolen, so the father/son must have had some other reason to be so mad that they got their guns, hunted a man down and shot him to death.

So I’m asking the question... what was it about this particular man that made father/son grab their guns, hunt him down and shoot him to death?

That action does appear to be consistent with someone who is angry about something but, as you said, I don’t know for certain they were angry when they grabbed their guns, hunted a man down and shot him to death within 6 minutes of him walking onto a construction site.

So, I will wait patiently with an open mind for some other theory that explains these actions to be presented and hope very much to be convinced.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

LOL, "for a job", try "spotter". What I want to know is how did he get there?



they need to be let be, if they can't learn from the past, it's a shame and it's sad to see the MSM and other race-baiters still wield so much influence. Look at the people behind hyping this, Benjamin Crump???

And the jogger bs, must be some jogger to be eight miles away from his house at the time and wearing THAT. These people defending the jogger have only seen that one tape, and who's to say it wasn't edited like in Covington and the Rodney King beating to make it seem like it wasn't what it was. Need more info, and supposedly, it's on the way and not so good again for "the jogger".

Like I said, I’m not interested in the political gamesmanship taking place after the event. Don’t care either way.

I’m trying to assess the self-defense claim by father/son. It doesn’t look good, imo.

The more info, the better. I’m especially interested in the full video of the shooting. If shots were fired while the man was on the ground, conviction is certain, imo.

You wouldn’t happen to know where the link to the full video can be found, do you? It seems the one that is out doesn’t show the shooting, just sort of before and after. Wonder why the actual shooting was left out?

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

Like I said, I’m not interested in the political gamesmanship taking place after the event. Don’t care either way.

"Don't care either way". The same extreme leftist agenda that places the spotlight on this incident yet goes out it's way to ignore another with the roles reversed:

Ignored by National Media: 29-Year-Old Black Man Guns Down Married Couple in Their 80s in Delaware Veterans Memorial Cemetery

"For some reason the national mainstream media did not play up the color of the shooter, nor of the victims, in this horrific double murder.
Weird, huh?
It’s almost like the national mainstream media purposely lies to the American public? Strange…."

But you don't care.

I do see a racial element in this.

How about this black on white murder? You see a racial element to it? Or you're not interested in black on white murder?

 

[canadyjd]

"Don't care either way". The same extreme leftist agenda that places the spotlight on this incident yet goes out it's way to ignore another with the roles reversed:

Ignored by National Media: 29-Year-Old Black Man Guns Down Married Couple in Their 80s in Delaware Veterans Memorial Cemetery

"For some reason the national mainstream media did not play up the color of the shooter, nor of the victims, in this horrific double murder.
Weird, huh?
It’s almost like the national mainstream media purposely lies to the American public? Strange…."

But you don't care.



How about this black on white murder? You see a racial element to it? Or you're not interested in black on white murder?

What a horrible murder. It is terrible that anyone would use such a tragedy for political purposes.

Did they catch the killer? Is he going to prison?

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

It is terrible that anyone would use such a tragedy for political purposes.

I thought you didn't care about the political angle. It's like I told you, everything about this 'news reporting' is political. The U.S mainstream media is totally ensconced in a Marxist agenda for this country and they decide what to emphasize and what to ignore, and gullible bleeding hearts fall for it every time.

 

[canadyjd]

I thought you didn't care about the political angle. It's like I told you, everything about this 'news reporting' is political.

Did they catch the killer? Did they find out why he did it?

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

......and gullible bleeding hearts fall for it every time.

Do you think I’m a “gullible bleeding heart”? Do you think I’ve been deceived concerning the case in Georgia?

peace to you

 

[777]

Well, the video does look like the two were chasing some black guy out for a jog on the surface. look deeper.

The more info, the better. I’m especially interested in the full video of the shooting. If shots were fired while the man was on the ground, conviction is certain, imo.

You wouldn’t happen to know where the link to the full video can be found, do you? It seems the one that is out doesn’t show the shooting, just sort of before and after. Wonder why the actual shooting was left out?

peace to you

Nah, can't see anything from certain angles in the shooting video, but it looks like the first shot was fired while the jogger was trying to grab the weapon, that shot went right through his hand.

The father was former LEO, and he did call the cops before going after AA:

Sometime around 1 p.m., McMichael was in his son’s front yard at 230 Satilla Drive when he saw Arbery running down the street, the report said. McMichael dashed inside the house and called to his son. “’Travis, the guy is running down the street, lets go,’” he told police. McMichael grabbed a .357 magnum handgun and Travis grabbed his shotgun, “not knowing if the male was armed or not,” the report said. Then they ran back outside and hopped in a truck, the report said.

Police report sheds more light on Satilla Shores shooting

He knew procedure and the jogger split when he was spotted, and that neighbor called the cops on him as well. My issue is this:

https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/ahmaud-arbery-stopped-at-construction-site-minutes-before-death/

where is the full tape of that jogger in the house? They show him going in and looking all around over and over again, but he was there for at least four minutes. And the older guy supposed knew AA, at least of him.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What a horrible murder. It is terrible that anyone would use such a tragedy for political purposes.

Did they catch the killer? Is he going to prison?

peace to you

Did they catch the killer? Did they find out why he did it?

peace to you

Exactly. Totally ignored the “racial element.” True colors showing, big league.

 

[kyredneck]

Do you think I’m a “gullible bleeding heart”? Do you think I’ve been deceived concerning the case in Georgia?

peace to you

You seem gullible enough to swallow hook, line, and sinker the media narrative that this was just an innocent jogger who was accosted and killed by two racist whites for no reason. I've gleaned that much from your posts.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I do see a racial element in this.

If you mean the meaningless observation that everyone in the incident has an ethnicity, then yes of course. And 1=1.

But you claimed in post #102, “The case has major racial significance.” That is a racist invention by race-baiters intent on making it so. They are succeeding of course, because some people like Kool-aid too much to resist.

 

[Reynolds]

Do you think I’m a “gullible bleeding heart”? Do you think I’ve been deceived concerning the case in Georgia?

peace to you

Yes and Yes.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What did they father/son know when they got their guns and went looking for this man? That’s the question.

There was no time for “early reports” or to look at videos. All they knew was a black man in a white t-shirt had walked into the construction site, briefly, and then left. Maybe they assumed, like you, he was a burglar. Just like you said. They got “real mad”. Why exactly were they so mad?

Did they call police? Apparently not until after they got their guns, hunted him down and shot him to death. It happened within 6 mins.

I have to admit you are really good with spin. You aren’t with the TDS MSM, are you?

Here are some things that have come out so far.

They did not “hunt him down.” They were stopped. They were trying to block his escape. He decided to attack. It didn’t end well, especially for him.

There had been a theft of a handgun earlier, so they wanted to be armed and ready in detaining a suspect.

Someone had already placed a 911 call regarding the initial incident.

Now for my own spin. I don’t know all of the ramifications, but could trying to wrest a gun away from its owner ever be construed as something akin to attempted murder?

The problem is that they could have filled the guy with holes, but they didn’t. They don't seem mad in the video. Are they supposed to wait until he starts filling them with holes using their own weapons before they can exercise self-defense?

 

[Adonia]

Are they supposed to wait until he starts filling them with holes using their own weapons before they can exercise self-defense?

If you let a person whom you believe has done something criminal get so close to you that he can grab your weapon, you have made one big mistake.

 

[kyredneck]

MSNBC Blames NRA, The ‘Rise of Trumpism’ For Ahmaud Arbery Murder | Weasel Zippers

...and of course there’ll be those gullible souls that’ll swallow the narrative hook, line, and sinker.

 

[canadyjd]

Well, the video does look like the two were chasing some black guy out for a jog on the surface. look deeper.



Nah, can't see anything from certain angles in the shooting video, but it looks like the first shot was fired while the jogger was trying to grab the weapon, that shot went right through his hand.

The father was former LEO, and he did call the cops before going after AA:



Police report sheds more light on Satilla Shores shooting

He knew procedure and the jogger split when he was spotted, and that neighbor called the cops on him as well. My issue is this:

https://nypost.com/2020/05/11/ahmaud-arbery-stopped-at-construction-site-minutes-before-death/

where is the full tape of that jogger in the house? They show him going in and looking all around over and over again, but he was there for at least four minutes. And the older guy supposed knew AA, at least of him.

From the article, the father saw the man running down the street. It doesn’t say he saw him at the construction site that day, but saw him several days earlier and thought he was suspicious. There had been several thefts in the area recently.

From the article, the father did not call police prior to shooting, but called his son saying “the man” was running down the street. They grabbed their guns because they saw him days earlier and thought he had something in his pants. They never saw a gun, days earlier or that day.

They pursued him in the truck, cutting him off several times attempting to make him stop. At one point, the father got into the back with a 357 revolver. The man refused to stop. They told him they wanted to talk to him.

The son once again cut him off and this time got out with the shotgun. The man rushed him, they fought over the shotgun. The man was shot at least twice and died.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

.......
The problem is that they could have filled the guy with holes, but they didn’t......Are they supposed to wait until he starts filling them with holes using their own weapons before they can exercise self-defense?

Well, yes they did “fill him with holes”. He died from shotgun wounds.

From the article, the father said he saw him running down the street that day. He had seen him days earlier and thought he was suspicious and there had been thefts in the area. That is all that he knew when he grabbed his gun and started the chase. The son knew only that his father told him the man was running down the street.

That is a huge problem for them. Their decisions were based on the information they had. They didn’t know of the construction site visit or that someone else called police.

They didn’t call police to report a suspicious person. They didn’t have sufficient cause to chase him with guns. They didn’t have authority to attempt to make him stop by using their truck to block his path. They didn’t have authority to make him answer their questions no matter how nicely they asked.

The fact they were using their truck to block his path could be considered assault or at least careless and imprudent driving or reckless driving. It certainly put him in danger of physical harm. This was done several times, apparently.

That the father was in the back of the truck with a handgun was clearly threatening. When the son blocked his path and exited the truck with a shotgun, that was clearly threatening.

Any reasonable person could conclude his life was in danger and he would be justified in defending himself.

Nothing in the articles change my opinion.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Exactly. Totally ignored the “racial element.” True colors showing, big league.

So, I said it was a horrible murder and was terrible to use such events for political purposes. I asked for follow up info about motive and arrest.

But because I didn’t specifically say anything about race, it reflects badly on me? Shows my true colors, right?

You are correct, I don’t have knee jerk reactions concerning race. I try to find out information about the case.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

There was a police shooting of a young black man, wielding a knife, in Chicago several years ago.

Initially, reporters were arguing the LE didn’t have right to shoot because the man had a knife and the cop had a gun. I knew that was nonsense. I have a reflex to give police the benefit of the doubt.

Eventually, the tape revealed the cop shot three times at the man as he appeared to rush him. The man hit the ground. The cop then fired 12 more rounds into the man as he lay on the ground.

The first three shots were justified, imo. Every shot after he hit the ground was not.

Race was not the issue for me. I try very hard to be objective, and deal with the facts.

I know others play racial politics with these cases. I don’t want to be part of that.

If, however, the racial element appears to be a real issue, I’ll say that as well.

peace to you