Is Divorce a Sin?

[Baptist in Richmond]

Yeah, I know: perhaps I should have been Captain Pike in that scenario.
Oh, wait: he knew what Spock was doing. He just kept saying no.......

 

[Tonya R]

istherenotacause,
I appreciate your honesty in admitting that you didn't really look over the article that well.
As to you objections, God fearing christians know that the bible can't contradict itself.. so I offer up this for you to ponder:

Hosea 2:2 also shows that God’s divorce meant Israel was no longer God’s wife, saying to her,2 Contend with your mother [Israel], contend, for she is not my wife, and I am not her husband;

And from Divorce and Remarriage here is a quote:

Now, let's turn to Jer. 3:1-15. You can read the entire passage at your leisure. I'll just pick out the key verses for now. Verse 8, "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery, I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. Now verse 14, "Turn, O backsliding children, saith Yahweh: for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion. In verse 8, Yahweh says that He gave Israel a bill of divorcement, but in verse 14 He says that He is married to her! Either the translation is inconsistent here, or my whole thesis does not hold water. I believe that the King James translation is inconsistent again here. The word "married" in verse 14 is #1166 in Strong's. It means to be master, hence to marry. I think that's a little ambiguous. Therefore, I looked the word up in the Brown, Driver, and Briggs Hebrew lexicon. Here the meaning becomes clear as "to be lord over". The Revised Standard version of the scriptures more accurately translates this verse as: "Return, O faithless children, says Yahweh, for I am your master;".

Just something to think on.....

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by hsmom3:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Istherenotacause:
I haven't read this entire thread, but have run into many who claim the "exception" clause, that is to whom I am referring.

Brother, do you deny that the exemption clause is there? Should we tear it from our Bibles?

Thank you for your thoughts.

</font>[/QUOTE]There is no exemption for divorce...none at all...

 

[Istherenotacause]

Hosea 2:1 Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband:

Uh, this passage is about Gomer, not Israel. though the Book of Hosea is a beautiful "picture" of the relationship between the LORD and Israel, it is not literally God and Israel, Jeremiah 3 IS!

Also, the word married is never lord as in master, it is lord as in husband, as Sarah called Abraham , lord.

I'm sorry, but when some one takes what some other "believes" because it doesn't fit their twisted theology, I have to stay with the Word of God.

All these Bible scholars really do need to consider the English definition of the word "bill" and quit trying to legislate it as law.

If the LORD wanted to say "master" He would have said it, but He didn't, He said "married".

A little study on Dueteronomy 24 concerning her that is "put away" and divorced should be comparatively made to understand that God is NOT calling unto Himself a Bride for His Son that He as His Father has divorced.

This is WAY off topic here, but it is something I saw that needed to be answered here, there is another thread "Did God Divorce Israel II" to discuss this.

The King James Translators knew what they were putting in Jer. 3:14, the person you quoted from that site doesn't know what they are talikng about.

This is from Strong's and is in complete agreement:

{1166} l["B; — ba`al, baw-al'; a primitive root; to be master; hence, (as
denominative from 1167) to marry: — have dominion (over), be
husband, marry(-ried, X wife). click to see {1167}


{1167} l["B" — ba`al, bah'-al; from 1166; a master; hence, a husband, or
(figuratively) owner (often used with another noun in
modifications of this latter sense): — + archer, + babbler, + bird,
captain, chief man, + confederate, + have to do, + dreamer, those to
whom it is due, + furious, those that are given to it, great, + hairy,
he that hath it, have, + horseman, husband, lord, man, + married,
master, person, + sworn, they of. click to see {1166}


Selecting a definition to "fit", when the intent of the verb is clear, but contrary to ones error in thinking, is wrong.

I am King James Bible fundamental, I steer far away from the heretical teachings of those who "feel they have to correct the Bible",

In Christ, Our Blessed Redeemer,

Brother Ricky

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by hsmom3:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Istherenotacause:
I haven't read this entire thread, but have run into many who claim the "exception" clause, that is to whom I am referring.

Brother, do you deny that the exemption clause is there? Should we tear it from our Bibles?

Thank you for your thoughts.

</font>[/QUOTE]No! No! Don't tear anything out of your King James Bible! Re-read the passage where this "supposed" exception clause is found and consider the LORD's example and don't follow man's/Moses.

Jesus was speaking specifically of the man, Moses, not the Mosaic Law as so many have alluded. God hates divorce, remember?

Moses instituted the "exception" due to the "hardness of a man's heart" God never did!

The Lord NEVER displaces forgiveness by hatred as the exception clause would indicate, but that just isn't so!

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Istherenotacause writes:
&gt;&gt;Moses instituted the "exception" due to
&gt;&gt;the "hardness of a man's heart" God never did!

Whoa, Brother Ricky: be VERY careful when you say this. The Bible is the DIVINELY INSPIRED Word of God Almighty.

 

[latterrain77]

Hi BaptistInRichmond. Thank you for your kind reply and thoughts. It's great to hear from you.

You said; For the purposes of my thought in referencing this event, however, David did indeed commit adultery.

I agree with you that adultery played a role in David's sin. However, it was David's pre-meditated murder of Uriah that brought the prompt judgment according to the text (2 Sam. 12: 9). The specific sins that David committed which brought the judgment are listed as: 1). despising the commandments of GOD, 2). killing Uriah, 3). taking Bathsheeba to be his wife (adultery?), 4). and slaying Uriah (with an enemies sword).

The sin of Uriah being murdered is mentioned TWICE in this "judgment verse." Adultery is not specifically mentioned; although taking Bathsheeba to be his wife may very well be tied with adultery. Interestingly, David had already committed pre-marital adultery with Bathsheeba earlier and the judgment did NOT fall at that point (2 Sam. 11: 4). The judgment came AFTER the murder. I think this may be significant.

You said; I am not sure why you quote II Samuel 11:4. That pertains the law of Moses, detailed in the Book of Leviticus.

2 Sam. 11: 4 describes David's actual pre-marital adulterous act with Bathsheeba while Uriah was still living.

You said; Hope this post finds you well.

Thank you! And you too BaptistInRichmond. GOD Bless!

latterrain77

 

[wizofoz]

Ok, what is the real sin here? Is divorce the sin, or disobedience?

People will marry outside God's will. Is that a union that God put together? Or are they asking
God to bless the union THEY want?

If it is a marriage that God has put together, yes, God hates that divorce. And the disobedience.
But, what of the unions against His will, such as people who are not saved who marry and divorce?
He does not want us to do anything not of His will. So, I don't see where it is an issue if someone marries and divorces before they get saved. It's after salvation that matters.

[ May 29, 2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: wizofoz ]

 

[Istherenotacause]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Istherenotacause writes:
&gt;&gt;Moses instituted the "exception" due to
&gt;&gt;the "hardness of a man's heart" God never did!

Whoa, Brother Ricky: be VERY careful when you say this. The Bible is the DIVINELY INSPIRED Word of God Almighty.

Oh, so are you saying just because we find something written in the Divnely Inspired inerrant Word of God, oh yeah, Infallable, that it is correct to follow exactly how it is read?

I believe that the Lord allows us to see that which causes error, that which contradicts His example.

I'm not toying with the Word, just pointing out the very same thing Jesus did; Moses allowed the writing of divorcement due to the hardness of a man's heart, this is NOT an act of God! Else when Moses murdered the Egyptian, that too, was an act of God.

If you'll look closely, everything Moses did and said, is not necessarily the intention of the LORD, i.e.; breaking the Ten Commandments, smiting the rock the second time when God told him to speak to it, etc, etc.
Oh yes! Everything we find in the Word of God IS inerrant, infallable, inspired, but just because the patriarchs and many others had several wives on top of concubines, does not mean it's the right of every individual to do the same, including divorce.

Jesus pointed out the error of Moses, it IS the hardness of a man's heart that he should put away his wife and then divorce her.


In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky

 

[Tonya R]

Isthere,
You're not making a whole lot of sense.
I see sort of the point you are trying to make , but I also see a fault line in your logic.
For example, when Abraham was commanded to kill his son that doesn't mean we are all to sacrifice our son just because there is an example of it, right.
And just because David was a murderer and an adulterer doesn't make it right?
But the text of Deuteronomy 24 was the mouth of God. Do you agree?
Do you think that God is gonna allow Moses to issue this commandment, and then to have it obeyed for thousand of years without Him intervening? Is that what you are getting at?
And it was a command, see Mark 10:4-5, ASV

4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5 But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

peace brother,
Tonya

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Tonya,

Remeber, he is referring to Moses, not God. God hates divorce. How can something that is hated by God be seen ok in His sight?

 

[Tonya R]

I know He is referring to Moses but Moses was the mouthpiece of God. And God doesn't hate divorce. He hates putting away. Putting away is the sin, Divorce is the remedy when a person is so hard hearted that they cannot forgive.
Divorce in Malachi 2 (NIV)is improperly translated. Please refer to the trusty ASV of 1901.

Tonya

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Tonya,

While Moses was God's mouthpiece, that does not mean that everything that came out of Moses' mouth was from God. Remember, Moses had free will just like you and I.

In Malachai, God says that He hates divorce. I cannot quote it for you now (since I'm at work), but if you give me a day (I've got a fully packed schedule) I can quote it for you tomorrow.

God hates divorce, plain and simple. Moses allowed the divorce because of their hardened hearts, and allowed what God hated.

Remember, not everything that Moses did was what God told Him to do. Remember the rock? He struck it when he was supposed to speak to it. Remember the Egyptian? He killed him, God didn't tell him to. Moses was a sinner like you and I. He had free will, and he excercised that free will.

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Adopted Daughter writes:
&gt;&gt;Remeber [sic], he is referring to Moses, not
&gt;&gt;God. God hates divorce. How can something that
&gt;&gt;is hated by God be seen ok in His sight?

Why do you neglect to mention that God may hate sin, but does not hate the sinner?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Istherenotacause writes:

&gt;&gt;I believe that the Lord allows us to see that
&gt;&gt;which causes error, that which contradicts His
&gt;&gt;example.

Okay, then what other parts of the Law do I need to disregard?
Note that I said "the Law", not the story of the exodus from Egypt, or the lie that Abraham told about his wife Sarah.

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

Originally posted by Baptist in Richmond:
Adopted Daughter writes:
&gt;&gt;Remeber [sic], he is referring to Moses, not
&gt;&gt;God. God hates divorce. How can something that
&gt;&gt;is hated by God be seen ok in His sight?

Why do you neglect to mention that God may hate sin, but does not hate the sinner?

Becuase I have not stated on this thread that God hated the sinner. I said, and have always said that God hated the sin. I thought that it was a given.

 

[RomOne16]

AD,

I personally do not see any mercy or forgiveness in your posts in this thread.

What I have perceived from your posts is a haughty, holier than thou attitude toward people who have committed the sin of divorce and remarriage. Please let me explain.

According to you, I am supposed to stop having marital relations with the man I have been married to and have loved with all my heart for 14 years, to satisfy people like you as to whether or not I am truly repentent. I really don't see how I would be honoring God to withhold myself from my husband, the father of my children, and most likely tear my family apart. Yet, you insist that is the only way for me to repent of my sin.

Yes, God is a God of justice. Sin must be paid for. But God is a God of mercy ! My sins are paid for. I am washed in the blood of the Lamb!

For you to wag your proverbial finger at me and tell me that I must break off my marriage in order to have forgiveness is preposterous.

What does the Lord Jesus have to say about forgiveness?

Matt 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. 32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. 35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

So tell me, would you vote me and my husband and our children in as members of your church AD? Or would you first require a notorized statement from me swearing that I don't share a bed with my husband?

 

[AdoptedDaughter]

no...biblically i wouldn't. (if you hd divorced and remarried after salvation)

I never said that I was holier than thou. I am against divorce and remarriage because God is against it.

If you want to call me names, that's fine, but I know what I believe and why I believe it, and will not bend to make other people like me. Some people live in sin because it is easier than abiding by what God wants.

 

[Istherenotacause]

1st of all, Abraham didn't kill Isaac, he only obeyed the LORD. God provided himself a lamb, the ram caught in the thicket by the horns, a picture of Christ.

2nd, God DOES NOT hate the sinner, but He is angry with the wicked. He hates divorce, but DOES NOT hate those divorced!

If one will read thier Bible and see where 'Thus saith the LORD" and then when Moses re-iterated the commandments of God for Israel, (and the stranger within the camp), you'll find discrepencies, omissions, and additions to what God had told Moses to say. Eve did the same excact thing in the Garden, although we never see the LORD speaking to Eve prior to her having been beguiled, she told the serpent that God hath said we shall not look upon it or touch it, (the fruit of that forbidden tree was not to be eaten).

We find many times the examples when the LORD told some one a thing, and then later we find their interpetation of it is somewhat unsimilar.

Again, follow the account given in Jeremiah 3 on the LORD's example, and not the fallacy of men, one namedly, Moses. We do want to be more like Joshua or Caleb don't we? And enter into victorious Christian living/ Canaan, don't we?

Qouted from Tonya:

And it was a command, see Mark 10:4-5, ASV 4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. 5 But Jesus said unto them, For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment.

If everyone will note here, Jesus is telling the disciples and the Pharisees, "For your hardness of heart *he* wrote you this commandement". (Lord forgive me for quoting the asv!) It is perfectly clear that Moses wrote the commandment, not the LORD, else Jesus would have said,'I, or the Father, hath commanded'.

If you keep following Moses, one day you'll die on the side of a mountain, looking over into Canaan, when instead, you could go forward and enter into that fair land as Joshua and Caleb!

In His Holy Service, Looking for the LORD to part chilly Jordan for to cross over!

Brother Ricky

 

[Istherenotacause]

Tonya! RomOne16! (got it right that time!)

Please read the following from the Word of God, Jeremiah 3:12 Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD;

**and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.**

13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:


15 And I will give you pastors **according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.**

Notice the LORD said pastors to FEED you, not "fleece" you.

In His Holy Service,

Brother Ricky