Is Drinking Alcohol a Sin?

[Bro Tony]

Make sure you don't eat meat either - read the passage you referenced:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble"

Didn't you know annsni, using the whole of Scripture in context is against the pharisee code of conduct. They tried it with Jesus in His day and their children continue in our day.

Bro Tony

 

[annsni]

Using your logic of checks and balances, we can safely say, without a shadow of doubt, that the Christian is forbidden to drink alcohol according to Proverbs 23:31 since it says not to look at the wine when it is fermented for it leads to redness of eyes, woe, contentions, illicit affairs, and addiction.

Actually, if you read the passage, it says to not look at the wine when it is 'red', not 'fermented'. And if you read the ENTIRE passage, you will note that it is talking of drunkenness, not a single drink - or even two.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Go back and study more, annsni. That is clearly fermented wine in verse 31. And Solomon did not warn against looking at it afer getting drunk.

He first tells who has sorrow and strife, wounds without cause, redness of eyes, etc. He then goes on to warn not even to look at alcoholic drinks... not even to have experience with, not approve of. Then he describes further wat the result of not heeding that warning leads to.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Actually, if you read the passage, it says to not look at the wine when it is 'red', not 'fermented'. And if you read the ENTIRE passage, you will note that it is talking of drunkenness, not a single drink - or even two.

Even reading the entire passage does not make verse 31 any less alcoholic, annsni. As a matter of fact, if one said that was not alcoholic wine in verse 31, what was the writer warning the reader of the effects of it for?

No, the warning to leave the alcoholic beverage is clearly written there.

Of course, since wine is a mocker and it deceives, I can see how the ones who advocate 'just one glass', or 'moderation' do not see the warning. It has clouded their judgment.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

THE ANCIENTS CALLED NON-FERMENTED JUICE WINE

Parkinson, in his Theatrum Batanicum, says, “The juice of liquor pressed out of the ripe grapes is called vinum (wine.) Of it is made both sapa and derfutum, in English cute that is to say, BOILED WINE, the latter boiled down to half, that former to the third part.” -Bible Commentary, xxxvi. This testimony was written about A.D. 1640, centuries before there was any temperance agitation.
Aristotle, born 384 B.C. says, “The wine of Arcadia was so thick that it was necessary to scrape it from the skin bottles in which it was contained, and to dissolve the scrapings in water.” -Bible Commentary, p. 295, and Nott, London Edition, p. 80
Columella and other writers who were contemporary with the apostles inform us that “in Italy and Greece it was common to boil their wines.” -Dr. Nott.
Professor Donovan says, “In order to preserve their wines to these ages, the Romans concentrated the must of grape-juice, of which they were made, by evaporation, either spontaneous in the air or over a fire, and so much so as to render them thick and syrupy.” -Bible Commentary, p. 295.
Horace, born 65 B.C., says, “there is no wine sweeter to drink than Lesbian; it was like nectar, and more resembled ambrosia than wine; that it was perfectly harmless, and would not produce intoxication.” -Anti-Bacchus, p. 220
Volney, 1788, in his Travels in Syria, vol. ii, chap. 29, says: “The wines are of three sorts, the red, the white, and the yellow. The white, which are the most rare, are so bitter as to be disagreeable; the two others, on the contrary, are too sweet and sugary. This arises from their being boiled, which makes them resemble the baked wines of Provence. The general custom of the country is to reduce the must of two-thirds of its quantity.” “The most esteemed is produced from the hillside of Zouk—it is too sugary.” “Such are the wines of Lebanon, so boasted by Grecian and Roman epicures.” “It is probably that the inhabitants of Lebanon have made no change in their ancient method of making wines.” -Bacchus, p. 374, note.
Smith, in his Greek and Roman Antiquites, says, “The sweet, unfermented juice of the grape was termed gleukos by the Greeks and mustum by the Romans-the latter word being properly an adjective signifying new or fresh.” “A portion of the must was used at once, being drunk fresh.” “When it was desired to preserve a quantity in the sweet state, an amphora was taken and coated with pitch within and without, it was filled with mustum lixivium, and corked so as to be perfectly airtight. It was then immersed in a tank of cold fresh water, or buried in wet sand, and allowed to remain for six weeks or two months. The contents, after this process, was found to remain unchanged for a year, and hence the name, aeigleukos-that is, ‘semper mustum’, always sweet.”
Mr. Robert Alsop, a minister among the Society of Friends, in a letter to Dr. F. R. Lees in 1861 says: “The syrup of grape-juice is an article of domestic manufacture in most every house in the vine districts of the south of France. It is simply the juice of the grape boiled down to the consistence of treacle.” -Bible Commentary, p. xxxiv.
Dr. Eli Smith, American Missionary in Syria, in the Bibliotheca Sacra for November, 1846, describes the methods of making wine in Mount Lebanon as numerous, but reduces them to three classes:

1. The simple juice of the grape is fermented.
2. The juice of the grape is boiled down before fermentation.
3. The grapes are partially dried in the sun before being pressed.

With characteristic candor, he states that he “had very little to do with wines all his life, and that his knowledge of the subject was very vague until he entered upon the present investigation for the purpose of writing the article.” He further as candidly confessed that the “statements contained in his article are not full in every point;” that “it was written in a country where it was very difficult to obtain authentic and exact information.” Of the vineyards, he further states that in “an unbroken space, about two miles long by half a mile wide, only a few gallons of intoxicating wine are made. The wine made is an item of no consideration; it is not the most important, but rather the least so, of all the objects for which the vine is cultivated.” He also states that “the only form in which may be called grape-molasses.” Dr. E. Smith here confirms the ancient usage of boiling the unfermented juice of the grape.
“The fabricating of an intoxicating liquor was never the chief object for which the grape was cultivated among the Jews. Joined with bread, fruits, and the olive tree, the three might well be representatives of the productions most essential to them, at the same time that they were the most abundantly provided for the support of life.” He mentions sixteen uses of the grape, wine-making being the least important. “I have asked Christians from Diarbekir, Aintab, and other places in the interior of Asia Minor, and all concur in the same statement.”
Proverbs 9:2, “She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.”
The reference must be to the mixing of water with the juice concentrate. The people in Bible days did not want to drink only water.

copied from:http://www.fbbc.com/messages/one_step/one_step_34.htm

 

[webdog]

Calling someone a Pharisee because they have decided not to drink is an outrage.

Saturn, it's not because they abstain...it's because they act like the Pharisees of Jesus' day.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Pharisees wanted man to follow rules outside of God's rules, Abstinence is not outside of God's rules.

 

[Gershom]

SFIC,

I would be interested, as some others, in your answer concerning this thread:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=34837

 

[npetreley]

Time to change the Bible again.

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.

Verse 15 should actually read:

For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is against God's command that any should drink new wine, which is only grape juice anyway and not alcoholic wine.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Aufidius forti miscebat mella Falerno.
Mendose: quoniam vacuis committere venis
Nil nisi lene decet: leni praecordia mulso
Prolueris melius._____


Aufidius first, most injudicious, quaffed
Strong wine and honey for his morning draught.
With lenient bev'rage fill your empty veins,
For lenient must will better cleanse the reins.
FRANCIS.

Ac 2:1599 Geneva Bible Notes:
2:13 Others (g) mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

(g) The word which he uses here signifies a kind of mocking which is reproachful and insolent: and by this reproachful mocking we see that no matter how great and excellent the miracle, the wickedness of man still dares to speak evil against it.

New wine. gleukouv. This word properly means the juice of the grape which distils before a pressure is applied, and called must. It was sweet wine; and hence the word in Greek meaning sweet was given to it. The ancients, it is said, had the art of preserving their new wine with the peculiar flavour before fermentation for a considerable time, and were in the habit of drinking it in the morning. See Horace, Sat. b. ii. iv. Sweet wine, which was probably the same as that mentioned here, is also mentioned in the Old Testament, Isa 49:26; Am 9:13.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The fact that the men were mocking them, accusing them of being drunk by their new wine (sweet wine and unfermented) is denied by Peter in the fifteenth verse when he states, 'These men are not drunk as ye suppose...'

NO, it was just another accusation and another instance of trying to make wine alcoholic in an instance that it was not alcoholic at all.

 

[annsni]

Even reading the entire passage does not make verse 31 any less alcoholic, annsni. As a matter of fact, if one said that was not alcoholic wine in verse 31, what was the writer warning the reader of the effects of it for?

No, the warning to leave the alcoholic beverage is clearly written there.

Of course, since wine is a mocker and it deceives, I can see how the ones who advocate 'just one glass', or 'moderation' do not see the warning. It has clouded their judgment.

Oh, I totally agree that the wine in this passage is alcoholic - there's no way around that. Nothing else can make you feel like you're at the top of the rigging (we have a sailboat - believe me, that's NOT a place I like to be), or to not feel that you're hurt. But, the one glass of wine I had in August for my migrane (because I had no migraine medicine with me) did NOT make me feel any of that - in fact, it took away my headache (tension headaches - the doctor told me to have a 1/2 glass of white wine when I am not near my meds), and made me feel much better. I had felt like my head was twisted IN the rigging before that (LOL) and afterwards, it felt much better. Heck, my migraine meds make me feel like I'm swaying all over, I feel numb and all sorts of things that make me think that those feelings are what you feel when you're drunk.

 

[Truth_Sayer]

Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

But wisdom is justified of her children.

Jesus was not drinking alcohol, nor was he saying he was. The statemsnt But wisdom is justified of her children was his telling them that he was not a wine bibber and a glutton.

As a matter of fact, that answer was answering their accusation against John as well.

If Christ was admitting to drinking alcohol, then he was also admitting that John had a demon. No, that was not the case.

 

[webdog]

Pharisees wanted man to follow rules outside of God's rules, Abstinence is not outside of God's rules.

For some, you are correct. For all you, as you claim, you are not correct. From your own quote of what a Pharisee wanted, you fall into that category.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

For some, you are correct. For all you, as you claim, you are not correct. From your own quote of what a Pharisee wanted, you fall into that category.

Not so. The Word of God commands abstinence. Many are just too blind by their own fleshly desires to see it.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

But wisdom is justified of her children.

Jesus was not drinking alcohol, nor was he saying he was. The statemsnt But wisdom is justified of her children was his telling them that he was not a wine bibber and a glutton.

As a matter of fact, that answer was answering their accusation against John as well.

If Christ was admitting to drinking alcohol, then he was also admitting that John had a demon. No, that was not the case.

Again, you have misunderstood. Christ was not admitting to being a glutten or winebibber just as He was not admitting that John had a demon. The examples, however, were valid.

Christ tells us John did not eat bread nor drink wine. Christ tells us that he did. Both were reviled and judgments made -- by the same legalists -- that both men were wrong.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

In Christ saying 'But wisdom is justified of her children', he was answering that John did not have a demon and he was not a wine drinker.

Jesus was our High Priest according to the book of Hebrews. Solomon said priests were not to drink wine at all lest it pervert their judgment.

Christ, as our High Priest would not have drank alcoholic wine, nor would he have endorsed it.

 

[Not_hard_to_find]

In Christ saying 'But wisdom is justified of her children', he was answering that John did not have a demon and he was not a wine drinker.

I do not see those words nor wring that meaning from them. Please clarify.

 

[EdSutton]

Why do I see this thread (with the same subject for about the fifth time in a year) as ranking on a par with the C/A and KJVO/ MV threads, which subjects have probably made even more appearances? It's almost enough to drive this 'teetotaler' to drink! Can you believe we are already to page 20?

Ed