Is Drinking, Smoking, and Dipping a Sin

[npetreley]

I still think this is one of the most appropriate quotes from the Bible, considering the self-righteousness that is permeating this thread like alchohol permeates the skin. (Nice simile, eh?)

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

 

[EdSutton]

Have I told you recently that you are SILLY!

You too Ed, you too

Well. that part about being silly could be, I guess, but have I ever posted anything that I could not back up? :smilewinkgrin:

And is my posting any sillier than some on some of the threads I/we see on the BB?

Ed

 

[mcdirector]

And is my posting any sillier than some on some of the threads I/we see on the BB?

Ed

No, but yours is nice (and always are).

 

[npetreley]

I've always found it ironic that "new wine" is supposed to be the good stuff, and yet it was "new wine" on which the Apostles were accused of being drunk, so obviously it was known that one could become drunk on new wine.

I know what you're saying (that new wine is supposedly non-alcoholic), but actually new wine was not only alcoholic, it was generally the cheap stuff, not the "good" stuff. I don't recall the actual time, but I think it was just months old, as opposed to 1-3 years old, which was the more mature wine.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

I know what you're saying (that new wine is supposedly non-alcoholic), but actually new wine was not only alcoholic, it was generally the cheap stuff, not the "good" stuff. I don't recall the actual time, but I think it was just months old, as opposed to 1-3 years old, which was the more mature wine.

Right. I think you followed me, but for anyone who didn't, I meant that, in the eyes of our local holiness judges, "new wine" is thought to have been unfermented grape juice, and therefore "good", and that's why it's spoken of positively in Scripture, when it's obvious from Acts 2 that it was simply known that one could get drunk from new wine.

Michael

 

[saturneptune]

self-will? Self has nothing to do with it. The Bible commands abstinence in both the Old and New Testaments. And since it is the Word of God that teaches it, your accusation that I am exercising in Pharisaical futulity is unfounded.

It is well founded. Anyone who thinks they are sinless for 24 hours, it is well founded. Oh by the way, from the tone of some of your posts, you didnt make it this 24 hours.

Never once do you talk about a walk with the Spirit, with sanctification. You talk about interpreting a verse as you see fit and obeying the rule.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Really, now? How do you figure?

Besides, it has been proven that wine in moderation has some health benefits, that even plain old Welch's (or Sam's Choice) can't match.

A MENACE NOT A MEDICINE​

Many Christians and unbelievers alike today are under the
illusion that some alcoholic beverages are beneficial as a tonic
for various ailments. Today there are so many “remedies” for all
kinds of sicknesses, from fevers to colds. Many people believe
them even though medically, there is no grounds for such action.
The real fact is that man is so sinful that he likes to believe that
the sinful things that bring him “pleasure” can cure him of his
physical and mental problems.

Consequently, tradition has produced all sorts of “tonics” and
old wives “remedies” which have included rum, whiskey, brandy,
and others. These are nothing more than folklore which have
been passed around for generations doing more harm than good.
God’s Word is clear concerning this:

But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. (1 Timothy 4:7)​

Our Lord was well aware of man’s lack of appreciation of the
things God has provided both for his physical and spiritual well
being. In Luke 5:39, He says:

No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better. (Luke 5:39)​

In this parable Christ likens new wine (non-alcoholic grape
juice) to salvation, or His powerful Kingdom, and old wine (alco-
holic) to legalism or pharisaic tradition. Christ’s analogy is
perfect as usual. We know that Jesus’ offer of salvation meant








eternal life and blessings to man. Something which legalism
could never bring, because without Christ, man could never live
up to the standards of the law.

Those who were unwilling to accept Christ would die in their
sins (John 8:21). Thus we can see how Christ knowing of the ill
effects of alcoholic wine, was able to effectively show the great
contrast between legalism and grace.

Salvation or the blessings of the Kingdom, is like new wine
being healthy and beneficial to man. And legalism or pharisaic
tradition, like old wine is harmful and would bring spiritual
death.

It is clear from the context of the parable that not only is new
wine superior to old wine, but that also old wine just like legal-
ism is useless. And as the Master said, those who are used to
drinking old wine prefer it to the new.

Today there are many other misconceptions concerning the so-
called benefits of alcohol. Including the common notion that it
keeps the cold out. Those who give credence to such an idea
should consider these facts from Black’s Medical Dictionary:

The popular habit of taking spirits ‘to keep the cold out’​

is a delusion. Alcohol gives a sense of warmth to the skin​

by bringing the blood there; but, as the blood is rapidly​

cooled in cold air, the risk of frostbite and even death by​

freezing is increased, so that experienced hunters and​

mountaineers will on no account touch spirits on biting​

cold days or at high altitudes.​

In health, there is no necessity for alcohol, and, as so​

many persons contract the alcohol habit, it would be well​

for everyone to consider the question carefully before​

embarking on its habitual use.​

Here we can see one of the many examples of the lack of
understanding concerning the effects of this deadly substance.

This now is being realized, because during the past fifty or so
years the use of alcohol as a medicine has rapidly declined.

Dr. William Patton writing long ago on this subject quoted
Dr. J.W. Beaumont, Lecturer on Materia Medica in Sheffield
Medical School, England, as saying:

Alcoholic liquors are not nutritious, they are not a tonic,​

they are not beneficial in any sense of the word.​

The recent claims today that red wine is beneficial because it
reduces the chances of our contracting heart disease is mislead-
ing and contradictory to the message of the Scriptures. The
French are often cited as an example of this because they eat a lot
of fatty foods, consume a high amount of red wine, yet have a
considerable reduced rate of heart disease when compared with
other countries. However, these claims are really inconclusive.
Let us consider the following from BBC’s web site
(www.bbc.co.uk/health/nutrition/drinks_alcohol.shtml) under the
heading of , Alcohol – the benefits and the risks:

Alcohol consumed in moderation is thought to be ben-​

eficial in reducing the risk of coronary heart disease.​

Indeed, alcohol consumption, in conjunction with high​

intakes of fruits and vegetables, or red wine, may well​

explain the so-called ‘French paradox.’ The French​

diet is considered to be very high in fat, especially sat-​

urated fat, and yet the death rate from coronary heart​

disease is apparently lower than that of any other​

developed country.​

So what are we saying? Reach for your wine glass? The​

key word here is moderation. The World Health​

Organization in 1997 concluded that the reduced risk​

from coronary heart disease was found at the level of one​

drink, consumed every second day.​

Alcohol, even when consumed in moderation, has​

Been linked to a very wide range of other ailments and​

Diseases, such as increased risk of mouth, pharyngeal​

And oesophageal cancers (this risk being greatly​

increased if combined with smoking). Furthermore,​

alcohol probably increases the risk of colorectal and​

breast cancer.​

The list doesn’t stop there: high blood pressure; gas-​

trointestinal complications, such as gastritis, ulcers, and​

liver disease; and a depletion of certain vitamins and​

minerals are all caused by alcohol consumption. Of​

course, excessive alcohol can also have detrimental​

social and psychological consequences.​

This clearly shows that any so-called benefits derived from
drinking alcoholic wine are massively outweighed by the risks.
You might not die of alcohol induced heart disease, but you will
probably die of cirrhosis of the liver or some other alcohol
related disease!

In proclaiming the fact that the French suffer a low rate of
heart disease, it is not mentioned in the same degree that they
have a high rate of deaths from cirrhosis of the liver as com-
pared to other countries! The question that must be asked is
what is it in the red wine that is beneficial? It is certainly not the
alcohol! Any benefit derived is clearly from the fruit used to
make the wine!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If one wants to be healthy, they would be better served if
rather than drinking an alcoholic beverage, they would sample
the many variety of pure healthy fruit juices on offer. If one
wants to avoid the risk of alcohol related diseases, one shouldn’t
drink alcohol!

When alcohol enters the blood stream it is undigested (neither
can it be, for the body tries to get rid of it), it then attacks the entire
nervous system and the whole body structure, causing damage
everywhere it goes. And if enough is ingested it will eventually
result in death. God in His infinite wisdom directly and implicitly
commands us to abstain from this deadly substance:

Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not?... (Isaiah 55:2)​

​

The Moffatt Translation reads:

Why spend your money on what is not food, your earn-​

ings on what never satisfies?​

John N. Moore and Harold Slusher writing on the subject in
their book, A Search for Order in Complexity, states:

Alcohol is seldom consumed for its food value, although​

when drunk regularly in small amounts it seems to build​

up fat. It may seem to be a stimulant, but actually it is a​

narcotic. All of its effects interfere with some bodily​

process. If it seems to make a person more active, it is​

because the normal controls are stopped.​

After a drink, a person may feel warm because the arter-​

ies leading to the skin dilate and let more blood through.​

But this process causes the body to cool off rapidly . The​

principle effect of drinking alcohol is on the nervous sys-​

tem, and the higher centers are affected first. For​

example, a person may not distinguish between what is​

funny and what is obscene. He may be friendly, but then​

suddenly change from affability to unprovoked rage.​

Thus he can become an unpredictable and dangerous​

person, even when he might not admit that he is drunk.​

Having looked at all these facts, let the reader take a closer
look at God’s Word, which contains the best instructions for health:

My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings. Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart. For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh. (Proverbs 4:20-22)​

The margin of a good reference Bible quotes the last
phrase,… and medicine to all their flesh. God’s Word is medicine
for the believer:

Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases; (Psalms 103:2-3)​

Christians today should seek their healing in Christ and not
in the bottle!


excerpt from Wine in the Bible and the Scriptural Case for Abstinence by Leighton G. Campbell

 

[webdog]

Aren't you supposed to provide a link when copying something verbatim?

 

[Snitzelhoff]

I stopped reading your article when it said that new wine was non-alcoholic grape juice.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

So by your answer I can safely gatherthat you partake of the other poisons that you know are causing damage to your body but these wouldn't be sinful like smoing and drinking would be.

More people in America die yearly of heart disease from these other poisons than you are willing to admit. I'm suprised that you would call a question dealing with poison a "foolish" question. For my "foolish" question, you have related a "foolish" answer.

I guess that through your system, we can pick and choose what is sin. Pick out the ones that we don't do and preach on them but deny the very one's we commit daily as sin and just don't mention them.

My question still stands and it is more relevant thaan ever. You chose to say smoking was a sin due to it's harmful cancer causing agents yet refuse to say whether or not it is okay to consume other poisonous cancer causing agents.

So from what I gather, it is a sin to smoke poison but it is permitted to chew up and swallow poison. It is a sin for the lungs but not a sin for the stomach.

I think you need to evaluate my "foolish" question again.

Sin is sin, regardless how it is done.

You seem to be picking what is not sin... albeit, you are wrong as the others who advocate or condone alcoholic beverage are.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Here's a factoid for you: Transdermal systems (like nicotine patches) sometimes use resevoirs of skin penetration enhancers -- that is, chemicals that permeate the skin easily, and so help the medicine get into your bloodstream.

Guess what one of the "skin penetration enhancers" is?

Wait for it ----

Alcohol. Why? Because alcohol permeates your skin and gets into your bloodstream so easily.

Just because something says "topical" on the bottle or tube doesn't mean it doesn't get into your bloodstream. If it has alcohol in it, it gets into your bloodstream. That's why some people are trying to get cosmetics manufacturers to stop using Isopropyl alcohol in cosmetics and hair care products. It's getting into the bloodstream and destroying intestinal flora. Ethyl alcohol, however, does not destry intestinal flora. Ethyl alcohol is the same alcohol that is in wine.

another uninformed statement by npetrely.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Right. I think you followed me, but for anyone who didn't, I meant that, in the eyes of our local holiness judges, "new wine" is thought to have been unfermented grape juice, and therefore "good", and that's why it's spoken of positively in Scripture, when it's obvious from Acts 2 that it was simply known that one could get drunk from new wine.

Michael

It is not I, nor sfiC, nor Linda64, nor DHK that has judged you. It is the Word of God that has judged you. You call yourselves christian and don't even follow His example. Christ never condoned drinking alcohol, nor did He drink it, yet you do the opposite and claim to be following Him?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I stopped reading your article when it said that new wine was non-alcoholic grape juice.

Of course you did... you don't want to receive sound doctrine.

 

[rbell]

[hijack] I've figured out one thing: if you want to reach everybody on the BB, start an alcohol thread. Folks pop up like mushrooms after a bad rain. You could get word to everyone in 5 minutes with a good fight about grape juice/wine/either/neither/both/huh?

Maybe I'll start a gluttony thread. That way we can fight about wining and dining.

Wait...I just realized something. Humor isn't allowed in alcohol or Cal/Arm threads. Sorry.

[/hijack]

 

[Snitzelhoff]

Of course you did... you don't want to receive sound doctrine.

Actually, we established earlier in the thread that one can get drunk off new wine. I figured a guy who couldn't agree with a fact even YOU consented to wasn't worth listening to.

Michael

 

[Snitzelhoff]

It is not I, nor sfiC, nor Linda64, nor DHK that has judged you. It is the Word of God that has judged you. You call yourselves christian and don't even follow His example. Christ never condoned drinking alcohol, nor did He drink it, yet you do the opposite and claim to be following Him?

One, I never said anyone judged me, but you, at least, have judged.

Two, I don't drink. You should get to know someone before flinging accusations around.

Michael

 

[DHK]

I stopped reading your article when it said that new wine was non-alcoholic grape juice.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. One of the common characteristics of the cults is that they take a "key-hole" approach to the Scriptures. They attach their special meaning to one word and insert that meaning everywhere the word occurs. But that approach doesn't work. One of the most important factors one must consider in the definition of a word is context. In most cases the context defines (or helps to define) a word.
"New wine" can mean alcoholic wine, it is true. I agree. But it can also mean a non-alcoholic grape juice. The context best gives the definition.
For example, in Acts chapter two, what is the context?
It was early in the day--It was but the third hour of the day.
All were astonished at this miraculous event of the disciples speaking in tongues.
But some mocked. These were unbelievers deliberately ridiculing the work of God. They said that these were drunk with new wine. They were mocking and the phrase "new wine" (with the meaning of grape juice) was an extra added punch to their ridicule. How can one get drunk on grape juice? They were acting drunk. They got drunk on new wine (the fermented wine had not been prepared yet because it was early). These foolsh people were drunk on their own tea-totalling juice. What ridicule these obnoxious unbelievers were bringing on the disciples.
But Peter rebuked them pointing out to them the obvious (which they probably already knew).
These are not drunk with new wine.
It is but the third hour of the day.
This is a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel.
And from there he preached unto them the gospel.

 

[Snitzelhoff]

DHK, so then the crowds didn't really think the Apostles were drunk?

 

[DHK]

DHK, so then the crowds didn't really think the Apostles were drunk?

No, it was a wild and false accusation of some unbelievers who denied the supernatural work of God.
What was the reaction of the crowd in general?
"How speak we every man in our own tongue."
They were astonished that they could hear the disciples speak other languages, and that they could hear the wonderful praises of God in their own native languages. That is what most of the crowd thought. They glorified God. They did not attribute it to drunkeness. That was just a very few unbelievers that did that. The verse states:

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

In relation to the thousands that were there "the others" were a relative few.