Is Drinking, Smoking, and Dipping a Sin

[mcdirector]

I had to look it up. John 19:30 clearly says that he received the vinegar before he said it is finished.

edited to add -- this is so far down the pike because I was going to add more, but I couldn't think of a nice way to add it so I deleted it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

A further look at Matthew 27 says he did drink the wine, on the cross, like I stated in my first post on this thread.

HBSMN, it was nice, but I think I've stayed in here long enough.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Why would the pharisees call Jesus a winebibber if he didn't drink wine?

They also said he was gluttonous, why would they say that if he wasn't a glutton?

"The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." - Matthew 11:19​

 

[Bro. Curtis]

edited to add -- this is so far down the pike because I was going to add more, but I couldn't think of a nice way to add it so I deleted it.

Part & parcel of the "peace & good will spreadin'", eh ?


You rock, Bitsy.:wavey:

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

A further look at Matthew 27 says he did drink the wine, on the cross, like I stated in my first post on this thread.

HBSMN, it was nice, but I think I've stayed in here long enough.

Matthew 27 nowhere says that Jesus drank wine, Curtis.

in verse 48, we read:

And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

but nowhere does it say that He drank it. If he refused it before, He still refused it.

 

[DHK]

The First Time
Matthew 27:33-34 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

The Second Time
John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

These are two separate episodes. In the first Jesus was offered sour wine, or vinegar that was mixed with gall or some type of myrrh. It wass a drug used to dumb the sense in order to ease the pain. Jesus refused this knowing that he must bare the full brunt of the penalty of the sins of the world by himself with no help from any outside source. He alone must pay that penalty. No drug could ease the pain for him. He would not take anything that would help him to ease the pain that he had to suffer for our sins.

The second time he was offered wine, it again was sour wine or vinegar. His throat was parched to the extent that he had no power left to speak. He needed to exclaim one more time, in victory, "It is finished." This would be a loud cry, for which he would need to use his vocal chords and thus needed that extra liquid. He didn't request wine, vinegar, or any substance. Water would have sufficed. He simply said "I thirst." Then in victory he was able to shout "It is finished!" The work of salvation was finished; there was nothing now man could do; he had suffered the full extent of torment; he would now yield his spirit to His Father. The sip of vinegar could be compared to just a taste, a sip, and in no way did he "drink" wine. To use this verse as an excuse to drink wine is blasphemous.

 

[dan e.]

They also said he was gluttonous, why would they say that if he wasn't a glutton?

"The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." - Matthew 11:19​

HUH?! I think I know what you are trying to say...but it doesn't prove your point because you stated it incorrectly.

 

[DHK]

The Bar

By a convict serving a life term in Joliet Prison, Illinois

The Saloon is sometimes called a Bar,
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well;
A Bar to manliness and wealth
A door to want and broken health;
A Bar to honor, pride and fame
A door to grief and sin and shame;
A Bar to hope, a bar to prayer
A door to darkness and despair;
A Bar to honored useful life
A door to brawling, senseless strife;
A Bar to all that's true and brave
A door to every drunkard's grave;
A Bar to joys that home imparts
A door to tears and aching hearts;
A Bar to heaven, a door to hell
Whoever named it, named it well!

God's Word says: "Nor thieves, not covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor.6:10)

(Christian Laymen's Tract League, P.O. Box 910.
Williams Bay, Wisconsin 53191)

 

[webdog]

They also said he was gluttonous, why would they say that if he wasn't a glutton?

"The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." - Matthew 11:19​

To be a glutton...one needs to eat.

To be a winebibber (drunkard)...one needs to drink.

 

[npetreley]

but nowhere does it say that He drank it. If he refused it before, He still refused it.

It was given Him twice. The second time is also recorded in John 19, where it says He received it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

DHK, nobody is using it as an excuse to drink. We are to be good stewards of our temples. But to write this episode off as "he only tasted it, he needed it for his throat", it won't wash. If it was indeed a sin to swallow wine, Christ wouldn't have done it.

 

[dan e.]

To use this verse as an excuse to drink wine is blasphemous.

HA! :laugh:

I sometimes picture some of these comments being said while wearing a long black robe on a high pedestal with both arms outstretched. Always good for a laugh.

 

[webdog]

The First Time
Matthew 27:33-34 And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

The Second Time
John 19:28-30 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

These are two separate episodes. In the first Jesus was offered sour wine, or vinegar that was mixed with gall or some type of myrrh. It wass a drug used to dumb the sense in order to ease the pain. Jesus refused this knowing that he must bare the full brunt of the penalty of the sins of the world by himself with no help from any outside source. He alone must pay that penalty. No drug could ease the pain for him. He would not take anything that would help him to ease the pain that he had to suffer for our sins.

The second time he was offered wine, it again was sour wine or vinegar. His throat was parched to the extent that he had no power left to speak. He needed to exclaim one more time, in victory, "It is finished." This would be a loud cry, for which he would need to use his vocal chords and thus needed that extra liquid. He didn't request wine, vinegar, or any substance. Water would have sufficed. He simply said "I thirst." Then in victory he was able to shout "It is finished!" The work of salvation was finished; there was nothing now man could do; he had suffered the full extent of torment; he would now yield his spirit to His Father. The sip of vinegar could be compared to just a taste, a sip, and in no way did he "drink" wine. To use this verse as an excuse to drink wine is blasphemous.

A lot of specualtion and reading into Scripture that which is not there in your post, DHK. To me it's blashpemous to read into Scripture what is not there to support a personal conviction.l

 

[saturneptune]

Since the Word of God says to 'abstain', then an occasional beer is sin whether one wants to believe it to be or not.

Is that a part of your program for going sinless 24 hours?

I do in fact think smoking and drinking can be sins, but not for the Pharisaical reasons you do. I am not on pins and needles trying to dissect each and every shaded meaning the Bible has to offer.

You know, that is what the Holy Spirit is there for, to guide us. If you could tell someone the Gospel with a cigarette in your mouth, and a beer in your hand, and it does not sear your conscience, then by all means do it.

However, I submit that is impossible. Instead of going by HBSMN's standards, I would go by the standard of the Holy Spirit in one's life. Try Romans 12:1, and Pauls letter about doing things around weaker Christians.

 

[dan e.]

If it is a sin to drink, but not to taste, then how much is required to enter your mouth to be called a "drink"?

Hmmmm.....I'm going to take the lead here, and suggest that any more than 1 tablespoon will hereby be declared one drinketh and shall be therefore condemned as a blasphemous heretic.

Since this is now official, I will only consume by the tablespoon since it is only a taste, and not a drink.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Jesus, the King of kings and the Prince of Peace would not have drank wine or strong drink as He knew it was not for kings and princes to drink.

 

[DHK]

DHK, nobody is using it as an excuse to drink. We are to be good stewards of our temples. But to write this episode off as "he only tasted it, he needed it for his throat", it won't wash. If it was indeed a sin to swallow wine, Christ wouldn't have done it.

In one of the comments that I read it was being used as an excuse to drink. Perhaps I will find it for you. In the meantime:

John 19:29-30 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Go to your home/kitchen and recreate the scene as best as you possibly can. Put some vinegar on a sponge. Put the sponge on a stick so the vinegar is dripping down according to the laws of gravity. Be sure to stand on a high stool. Give the stick to a child so he has to reach up to you. Try to get a good drink of that vinegar from that sponge, and then tell me if he had a taste or a good drink. Common sense prevails doesn't it?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Is that a part of your program for going sinless 24 hours?

I do in fact think smoking and drinking can be sins, but not for the Pharisaical reasons you do. I am not on pins and needles trying to dissect each and every shaded meaning the Bible has to offer.

You know, that is what the Holy Spirit is there for, to guide us. If you could tell someone the Gospel with a cigarette in your mouth, and a beer in your hand, and it does not sear your conscience, then by all means do it.

However, I submit that is impossible. Instead of going by HBSMN's standards, I would go by the standard of the Holy Spirit in one's life. Try Romans 12:1, and Pauls letter about doing things around weaker Christians.

Since the command to abstain is in fact written in the Word of God, it cannot be said to be Pharisaical to command or preach abstinence. Pharisaical laws were adding laws to God's laws that were not there.

The command to abstain is there.

 

[DHK]

A lot of specualtion and reading into Scripture that which is not there in your post, DHK. To me it's blashpemous to read into Scripture what is not there to support a personal conviction.l

Tell me what am I reading into Scripture?

 

[mcdirector]

To use this verse as an excuse to drink wine is blasphemous.

I don't see that happening here. This came up because the opposite was true. (There was the claim that either it wasn't fermented OR he didn't drink it.)