Is Drinking, Smoking, and Dipping a Sin

[Zenas]

In the same respect, it is foolish to disregard 'abstain from wine' altogether. It is written as a Greek definition of the word 'nepho'.

It has to mean it in at least one of those instances, else it would not have been put in as a definition for nepho.

HBSMN, I'm still waiting for you to cite a single verse from the KJV New Testament where abstaining from wine translates "nepho."

 

[dan e.]

In the same respect, it is foolish to disregard 'abstain from wine' altogether. It is written as a Greek definition of the word 'nepho'.

It has to mean it in at least one of those instances, else it would not have been put in as a definition for nepho.

I'm not doubting that the definition cannot be to "abstain from wine". What I am saying is that the word can be used figuratively, and does not have to mean a strict abstaining depending on the context. In the contexts used in the Bible, the authors are not saying to keep from consuming alcohol...but they are saying to remain sober, calm and collected in your spirit. It is quite a conclusion to jump to when you see the word "nepho" and respond with: "Look, there it is! Alcohol is evil, we must never put it in our bodies!"

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The only word that can be used figuratively in the definition of 'nepho' according to the Strongs Exhaustive and the Strongs Concise, is the word 'discreet'. Abstain from wine is not said to be figurative at all.

 

[npetreley]

"Look, there it is! Alcohol is evil, we must never put it in our bodies!"

If you want to get REALLY techincal, we put alcohols in our bodies all the time. Many natural foods contain forms of alcohols. For example, honey has a natural alcohol in it. Any jelly/jam with fruit juice in it is likely to have alcohol in it. Tons of flavors and condiments contain alcohol. When the doctor dabs alcohol on your skin before giving you a shot, that alcohol is absorbed into your body. If you drink anything with Splenda in it, you're drinking a sugar alcohol. I could go on, but what would be the point?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

HBSMN, I'm still waiting for you to cite a single verse from the KJV New Testament where abstaining from wine translates "nepho."

1 Thessalonians 5:7-8 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Notice the contrast. day - night, drunken - sober. Total opposites. And herer is the Greek for the word sober in that verse:

of uncertain affinity: to abstain from wine (keep sober), i.e. (figuratively) be discreet:--be sober, watch.

The word 'nepho' is of uncertain affinity, but does mean primarily 'to abstain from wine'. Figuratively, it can mean 'discreet'.

 

[npetreley]

One more thing - if anyone wants to argue the issue of intoxication, did you know you can get intoxicated by drinking too much water? It's true. In fact, you can even die from water intoxication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Water is evil!!!!

 

[dan e.]

Notice the contrast. day - night, drunken - sober. Total opposites. And herer is the Greek for the word sober in that verse:


The word 'nepho' is of uncertain affinity, but does mean primarily 'to abstain from wine'. Figuratively, it can mean 'discreet'.

It's all about context. In that passage the context is not discussing whether or not it is a sin to consume alcohol. Rather it is our call as Christians to remain sober.

 

[Hope of Glory]

If you want to get REALLY techincal, we put alcohols in our bodies all the time. Many natural foods contain forms of alcohols. For example, honey has a natural alcohol in it. Any jelly/jam with fruit juice in it is likely to have alcohol in it. Tons of flavors and condiments contain alcohol. When the doctor dabs alcohol on your skin before giving you a shot, that alcohol is absorbed into your body. If you drink anything with Splenda in it, you're drinking a sugar alcohol. I could go on, but what would be the point?

Don't forget, there's a rare disease (which name eludes me) in which the body converts food to alcohol before it can be digested. I guess those people were born doomed.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

the contrast clearly shows to abstain from alcohol.

If one drinks one glass of alcoholic wine, he is no longer sober. He may not be totally drunk according to man's definition of what drunken is, but he is no longer sober. Blood tests would show that there is a certain amount of alcohol in the bloodstream.

Just as night is the exact opposite of day, drunken is shown here to be the exact opposite of sober.

 

[npetreley]

the contrast clearly shows to abstain from alcohol.

If one drinks one glass of alcoholic wine, he is no longer sober. He may not be totally drunk according to man's definition of what drunken is, but he is no longer sober. Blood tests would show that there is a certain amount of alcohol in the bloodstream.

If one drinks too much water, he is also no longer sober. In fact, you'll be drunk. Therefore never let another drop of water touch your lips.

Don't tell me you can drink water in moderation and be fine, because you can drink wine in moderation and be fine, too. That's especially true of wine in NT times, since, if I recall correctly, they mixed it with evil water which dilutes the alcohol. So moderation is no excuse.

If your doctor dabs alcohol on you, blood tests would show that you have alcohol in your bloodstream. If you drink evil water, blood tests would show that you have water in your system. If you eat anything with poppy seeds, blood tests will show that you have some opiates in your system.

I notice you're not responding to any of this. What's wrong? Are we poking holes in your self-righteousness?

 

[dan e.]

the contrast clearly shows to abstain from alcohol.

If one drinks one glass of alcoholic wine, he is no longer sober. He may not be totally drunk according to man's definition of what drunken is, but he is no longer sober. Blood tests would show that there is a certain amount of alcohol in the bloodstream.

Just as night is the exact opposite of day, drunken is shown here to be the exact opposite of sober.

This is not so clear as you are saying. These statements are pure opinion probably based off of your preference to abstain, and your preference that the rest of the world adhere to it. It is not clear. I've already stated what I believe the context suggests. There is room for disagreement.

 

[DHK]

One more thing - if anyone wants to argue the issue of intoxication, did you know you can get intoxicated by drinking too much water? It's true. In fact, you can even die from water intoxication.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

Water is evil!!!!

Too much of anything is evil. It is true that a woman died in a drinking (water) contest. The Bible teaches temperance in all things.

Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

Felix trembled at the preaching of Paul. He was under conviction of the Holy Spirit. Felix was a very intemperate man. He was a glutton and often drunk.

However abstinence from all acoholic beverages should be taught for many reasons:
1. As a testimony for the weaker brother. Paul specifically says:
Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
--For the weaker brother, the recovering alcoholic, for the offence it will cause those who do believe it is wrong, don't drink.

2. Although the NT word for Greek (oinos) may be translated fermented wine, it is just as easily translated "grape juice" or unfermented wine, much like our English word "cider." If I stop and buy a cup of cider in Germany, it will likely be an alcoholic beverage. The cider sold at Second Cup is simply apple juice. The word "wine" in the KJV is used the same way, and only the context can tell you in which way it is being used.

3. The typical passages used to justify drinking are usually those passages in which wine can be translated, and should be translated, unfermented wine or grape juice.

Did Jesus make wine or grape juice? The governor's words commented on the taste, not the alcoholic content. "You have saved the best til the last." It was the best tasting. Anything created by Christ is the "best." How could he do anything less? It was also "new wine," a term indicating grape juice, not fermented wine. He had created it anew. The comment of the governor was on strictly on the taste. It was the best he had ever tasted. That doesn't mean it was alcoholic. The passage doesn't say that.

The passages concerning the Lord's Table do not need to be translated wine; in fact in no way should be translated wine, but grape juice. Wine is a fermented or leavened beverage. Like the bread that was to be eaten, it had to be unleavened. So likewise was the "wine." It had to be unleavened, or grape juice. Leaven consistently spoke of sin, corruption, and false doctrine throughout the Bible. Jesus body saw no corruption. To have wine or leavened juice would give a picture of corrupted blood, a corrupted body, a sinful Christ. What a blasphemous picture this would be in the celebration of the Lord's Table.

The passage concerning Paul's advice to Timothy: Take a little wine for thy stomach's sake and for thy oft infirmities. The most common stomach ailment of the time was dyssentery caused by unclean water. It still is in third world countries. Grape juice has a settling effect on the stomach. It is safe to drink rather than the local water. A man doing a lot of traveling and hard work cannot rely on alcoholic beverages. That would dehydrate him, make him drunk, and cause more medical problems. He needed another beverage than the contaminated local water. Grape juice would be a good substitute. It would be ridiculous to suggest an alocoholic beverage in the place of water, the source of many stomach ailments. Why not just give him a rotten liver instead, and let him die of cirrhosis of the liver.

All the passages used to justify drinking of wine or alcoholic beverages, are normally taken out of context and simply used as an excuse to justify a bad habit, a sinful practice, something that is of the world that they don't want to give up now that they are saved.

 

[npetreley]

Too much of anything is evil. It is true that a woman died in a drinking (water) contest. The Bible teaches temperance in all things.

I agree. That includes drinking wine. The real thing, I mean.

Also, the chief steward didn't ONLY comment on the taste. His comment was in the context of serving alcoholic wine, which dulls the senses such that you can serve inferior wine after having served the good stuff.

By all means, abstain entirely. Good for you. I don't think anyone here is making excuses in order to justify what they do. I think what disturbs most people is the attitude of self-righteousness and the blindness toward verses that obviously refer to alcoholic wine.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

If one drinks too much water, he is also no longer sober. In fact, you'll be drunk. Therefore never let another drop of water touch your lips.

Don't tell me you can drink water in moderation and be fine, because you can drink wine in moderation and be fine, too. That's especially true of wine in NT times, since, if I recall correctly, they mixed it with evil water which dilutes the alcohol. So moderation is no excuse.

If your doctor dabs alcohol on you, blood tests would show that you have alcohol in your bloodstream. If you drink evil water, blood tests would show that you have water in your system. If you eat anything with poppy seeds, blood tests will show that you have some opiates in your system.

I notice you're not responding to any of this. What's wrong? Are we poking holes in your self-righteousness?

One cannot get drunk from drinking water. One may get sick from drinking water that is contaminated, and one may die from drinking contaminated water or too much water, but one certainly cannot get drunk from drinking water.

As to alcohol rubbed on skin by doctor, that alcohol is an external cleansing agent used prior to injections, it is not absorbed into the bloodstream as your uneducated post implies.

My stance on alcohol has nothing to do with self-righteousness, it has to do with obedience to the Word of God. Might do you good to study and obey too.

 

[npetreley]

One cannot get drunk from drinking water. One may get sick from drinking water that is contaminated, and one may die from drinking contaminated water or too much water, but one certainly cannot get drunk from drinking water.

You obviously did not follow my link. It is common knowledge that you can get drunk from drinking too much water. Ask any doctor who specializes in diabetes. It is especially well-known among them because diabetes causes increased thirst, which makes it more likely for people to get drunk from drinking too much water.

Signs of hyponatremia (drinking too much water): nausea, headache, cramps, confusion, slurred speech, bloating and swollen hands.

As to alcohol rubbed on skin by doctor, that alcohol is an external cleansing agent used prior to injections, it is not absorbed into the bloodstream as your uneducated post implies.

Alcohol is one of the most permeable liquids known to man. It is absorbed through the skin into your bloodstream very easily. Alcohol is SO permeable that some of it is likely to get into your system through your tongue and mouth before it reaches your stomach. You are the one who is ignorant on this topic.

Your stance has everything to do with self-righteousness, which blinds you to the obvious meaning of scriptures. I hope someday you'll see that.

 

[Rufus_1611]

Too much of anything is evil. It is true that a woman died in a drinking (water) contest. The Bible teaches temperance in all things.
...

Outstanding post DHK...that's good squishy.:thumbs:

 

[dan e.]

[sigh].....I need a drink.

 

[npetreley]

[sigh].....I need a drink.

That was long overdue. Just stay away from that evil water, ok?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

You obviously did not follow my link. It is common knowledge that you can get drunk from drinking too much water. Ask any doctor who specializes in diabetes. It is especially well-known among them because diabetes causes increased thirst, which makes it more likely for people to get drunk from drinking too much water.

Alcohol is one of the most permeable liquids known to man. It is absorbed through the skin into your bloodstream very easily. Alcohol is SO permeable that some of it is likely to get into your system through your tongue and mouth before it reaches your stomach. You are the one who is ignorant on this topic.

Your stance has everything to do with self-righteousness, which blinds you to the obvious meaning of scriptures. I hope someday you'll see that.

It is common knowledge that Wikipedia allows people to add to their encylopedia without checking for authenticity. I don't need to go to wikipedia for the answer when I have the number to the local hospital, family doctors, and even surgeons in neighboring towns.

Water does not contain the properties of alcohol found in wine and beer. Water cannot make one drunk.

Isopropyl alcohol used by doctors prior to an injection does not enter bloodstream unless one orally ingests it... which is not advised.

To confirm this, I just got off of the phone with the local pharmacist. He informed me that the isopropyl evaporates and does not enter the bloodstream.

It is not I who is blinded to the obvious meaning of the Scriptures. It is you.

 

[saturneptune]

One cannot get drunk from drinking water. One may get sick from drinking water that is contaminated, and one may die from drinking contaminated water or too much water, but one certainly cannot get drunk from drinking water.

As to alcohol rubbed on skin by doctor, that alcohol is an external cleansing agent used prior to injections, it is not absorbed into the bloodstream as your uneducated post implies.

My stance on alcohol has nothing to do with self-righteousness, it has to do with obedience to the Word of God. Might do you good to study and obey too.

It seems your stance on alcohol and any other subject concerning obeying the Gospel has to do with self effort, self power, and human will. It has nothing to do with living by the Spirit and relying on the power of God.

While I agree with you on the consumption of alcohol, it is for reasons 180 degrees from yours. Mine has to do with Romans 12:1 and letting the Spirit lead, yours has to do with obeying a set of rules.

So tell me, how is your 24 hour sinless program going?