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Is Drinking, Smoking, and Dipping a Sin

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Snitzelhoff

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From the Material Safety Data Sheet for isopropyl:

May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.
Yep. Seems npetreley was right.

However, what I found on Hyponatremia indicates that it's not related to drinking too much water, but to a lack of electrolytes; that is, drinking water by itself (unless you're an infant) shouldn't cause it unless you're also losing electrolytes via, say, sweat.

Michael
 

npetreley

New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
It is common knowledge that Wikipedia allows people to add to their encylopedia without checking for authenticity. I don't need to go to wikipedia for the answer when I have the number to the local hospital, family doctors, and even surgeons in neighboring towns.

Water does not contain the properties of alcohol found in wine and beer. Water cannot make one drunk.

Isopropyl alcohol used by doctors prior to an injection does not enter bloodstream unless one orally ingests it... which is not advised.

To confirm this, I just got off of the phone with the local pharmacist. He informed me that the isopropyl evaporates and does not enter the bloodstream.

It is not I who is blinded to the obvious meaning of the Scriptures. It is you.
Either you have a very ignorant pharmacist, or you're lying in order to prop up your self-righteousness (that would be irony). If you're lying, I suggest you ask for forgiveness if you want to make it through 24 hours without sinning.

Isopropyl alcohol not only penetrates your skin into your bloodstream, there are people who want it taken out of hair care and skin care products because it can destroy your intestinal flora. It GETS to your intestinal flora because it gets into your system so easily THROUGH THE SKIN.

Rubbing alcohol is a mixture of acetone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and ethyl alcohol. Ethyl alcohol, which is the same alcohol as in wine, permeates the skin into the bloodstream very quickly and easily. So if you or your doctor ever use rubbing alcohol as an antiseptic, you have put the same alcohol as wine into your bloodstream.

As for water, as I pointed out before, the signs of hyponatremia, which is caused by drinking too much water, are: nausea, headache, cramps, confusion, slurred speech, bloating and swollen hands. Nausea, confusion and slurred speech are also symptoms of being drunk.
 
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npetreley

New Member
Snitzelhoff said:
Yep. Seems npetreley was right.

Thank you.

Snitzelhoff said:
However, what I found on Hyponatremia indicates that it's not related to drinking too much water, but to a lack of electrolytes; that is, drinking water by itself (unless you're an infant) shouldn't cause it unless you're also losing electrolytes via, say, sweat.

Michael

Actually, it doesn't take sweating. Drinking too much water dilutes your electrolytes, which gets you the same result.
 
saturneptune said:
It seems your stance on alcohol and any other subject concerning obeying the Gospel has to do with self effort, self power, and human will. It has nothing to do with living by the Spirit and relying on the power of God.

While I agree with you on the consumption of alcohol, it is for reasons 180 degrees from yours. Mine has to do with Romans 12:1 and letting the Spirit lead, yours has to do with obeying a set of rules.

So tell me, how is your 24 hour sinless program going?

Um... the Word of God is a set of rules. 'Walk in the Spirit,' 'Submit to God,' 'resist the devil,' etc.. Why even the verse you referenced has a rule. 'Present your body a living sacrifice'
 
I am not sure where you guys are getting your sources concerning the alcohol swabbed on your skin prior to an injection, but I have called and talked to a pharmacist and also to a registered nurse... both of whom are highly qualified in the medical field.

Both informed me that the alcohol used for injections or for blood work evaporates on the skin. Not one molecule of it enters the bloodstream.

I will believe medical professionals over websites any day of the week.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
I am not sure where you guys are getting your sources concerning the alcohol swabbed on your skin prior to an injection, but I have called and talked to a pharmacist and also to a registered nurse... both of whom are highly qualified in the medical field.

Both informed me that the alcohol used for injections or for blood work evaporates on the skin. Not one molecule of it enters the bloodstream.

I will believe medical professionals over websites any day of the week.
And pray tell what all these red herrings are doing on this thread? To what benefit are they? Is not the subject driniking alcholic beverages, such as wine and beer, etc. Do you and your families forbid the use of cough syrup when recommended by your doctor? Do you forbid a nurse to clean that patch of skin before she draws blood from you? These are but red herrings and have nothing to do with the consumption of alcoholic beverages.
Let's stay with the topic.
 

npetreley

New Member
Your sources are either made-up, or they stink. Not only does alcohol get absorbed into the bloodstream through skin, you can even breathe alcohol vapors into your system.

http://www.chemcases.com/alcohol/alc-04.htm

Absorption of ethyl alcohol into the blood can occur through the skin and via the lungs, though the major route of taking ethyl alcohol into the body is by drinking alcoholic beverages.

Absorption through the skin has been confirmed by a report (Dalt et al, 1991) of a case of a 1 – month old infant who became intoxicated as a result of absorption of ethyl alcohol from dressings applied to the stump of the umbilical cord and the skin adjacent to it.

Additional confirmation of skin absorption comes from a microdialysis study in which a long probe with was inserted under the skin for a distance of 3 cm. Ethyl alcohol was then placed in a small area on the skin above the probe while the subcutaneous area was being perfused. Analysis of the perfusate indicated the presence in an amount that was related to the extent of skin exposure (Anderson et al, 1991).

Inhalation of ethyl alcohol vapor allows the absorption of ethyl alcohol across the pulmonary epithelium. This method of ethyl alcohol administration has formed the basis of a simple and effective means of administering alcohol to animals in experimental situations (e. g. Goldstein and Pal, 1971; Becker et al. ).

The advantage of this procedure is the ability to maintain ethyl alcohol exposure to a consistent amount of ethyl alcohol for a determined amount of time. This produces stable concentrations of ethyl alcohol in the animal in contrast to fluctuating levels seen after other routes of administration (see below). An extreme illustration of absorption via the inhalation route is the case of an infant who died when isopropanol was added to the humidifier of a mechanical ventilator by mistake. The child was initially found profoundly intoxicated (Vicas and Beck, 1993).
http://www.chess.cornell.edu/safety/manual/msds/srpylch.htm

Isopropyl Alcohol

May be absorbed through the skin with possible systemic effects.

Inhalation of vapors irritates the respiratory tract. Exposure to high concentrations has a narcotic effect, producing symptoms of dizziness, drowsiness, headache, staggering, unconsciousness and possibly death.
 
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npetreley

New Member
DHK said:
Is not the subject driniking alcholic beverages, such as wine and beer, etc. [...] Let's stay with the topic.

It is the topic. Rubbing alcochol contains ethyl alcohol, which is absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. Ethyl alcohol is the same alcohol as found in wine. Why is it NOT sinful to get alcohol into your system via rubbing alcohol, yet it's a sin to get it into your system by drinking it? That's why it's relevant. That's also why someone is desperate to believe you can't absorbe ethyl alcohol through the skin. If it were only about drinking, and not about self-righteousness, then the absorbancy of alcohol through the skin wouldn't be an issue.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
npetreley said:
It is the topic. Rubbing alcochol contains ethyl alcohol, which is absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. Ethyl alcohol is the same alcohol as found in wine. Why is it NOT sinful to get alcohol into your system via rubbing alcohol, yet it's a sin to get it into your system by drinking it? That's why it's relevant. That's also why someone is desperate to believe you can't absorbe ethyl alcohol through the skin. If it were only about drinking, and not about self-righteousness, then the absorbancy of alcohol through the skin wouldn't be an issue.
I get blood tests done regularly. They never have made me the least bit "tipsy" or drunk. Your argument is frivilous and meaningless. I suppose to have enough alcohol to penetrate to your skin to have any effect on you at all you probably would have to take a bath in it. Let's quit being ridiculous on this question, and bet back to the real question on hand.
 
DHK said:
And pray tell what all these red herrings are doing on this thread? To what benefit are they? Is not the subject driniking alcholic beverages, such as wine and beer, etc. Do you and your families forbid the use of cough syrup when recommended by your doctor? Do you forbid a nurse to clean that patch of skin before she draws blood from you? These are but red herrings and have nothing to do with the consumption of alcoholic beverages.
Let's stay with the topic.
I was addressing a false accusation which apparently is being thrown out to justify one consuming alcoholic beverages.

I called valid sources to verify my claim.

I agree, let's just stick with the topic of drinking of alcoholic beverages... which the Word of God forbids.
 

npetreley

New Member
DHK said:
I get blood tests done regularly. They never have made me the least bit "tipsy" or drunk. Your argument is frivilous and meaningless. I suppose to have enough alcohol to penetrate to your skin to have any effect on you at all you probably would have to take a bath in it. Let's quit being ridiculous on this question, and bet back to the real question on hand.
If it is meaningless, why go to great lengths (even possibly lying) to "prove" you can't absorb alcohol through the skin?

Your argument is that the sinfulness of ingesting alcohol is related to the amount of alcohol ingested. If you want to argue that, then you've made the point for those who believe that there's nothing sinful about drinking wine in moderation. It is drunkenness that is sinful. Thank you for proving our point. (Which was the reason for raising the issue of rubbing alcohol in the first place - so it was relevant after all, since it is what prompted you to make the case for the amount being the determining factor).
 
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npetreley

New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
I called valid sources to verify my claim.

Your valid sources, if they exist, either have little or no knowledge of chemistry (hard to believe for a pharmacist, which is why I doubt they exist), or they're just plain ignorant. They're wrong.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
npetreley said:
Your valid sources, if they exist, either have little or no knowledge of chemistry (hard to believe for a pharmacist, which is why I doubt they exist), or they're just plain ignorant. They're wrong.
It is still a red herring. No one argues the point about taking cough syrup either. It also has a small content of alcohol in it. Here is the argument:

Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:

Note carefully:
Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

There are some of the arguments--not skin patches.
 

dan e.

New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
I was addressing a false accusation which apparently is being thrown out to justify one consuming alcoholic beverages.

I called valid sources to verify my claim.

I agree, let's just stick with the topic of drinking of alcoholic beverages... which the Word of God forbids.

Time to get over the fact that not all believers agree, and it is time for you to learn to get along with believers that may drink. Just as myself (who does not drink), or anyone who does drink, would not offend a brother or sister by drinking in front of them.

So in short....lets get over it. After all, we're not talking about drunkenness...which is not debatable. We're talking about something that is less clear in Scripture.
 

saturneptune

New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
I was addressing a false accusation which apparently is being thrown out to justify one consuming alcoholic beverages.

I called valid sources to verify my claim.

I agree, let's just stick with the topic of drinking of alcoholic beverages... which the Word of God forbids.
Ok, here is the topic. Alcohol consumption is wrong. The problem with you is, the reasoning that lead you to the same conclusion shows a total lack of understanding of the Gospel on your part.

I do wish you would teach that eagle to turn its head in a 360 degree circle. It would be much more entertaining.
 

npetreley

New Member
dan e. said:
Time to get over the fact that not all believers agree, and it is time for you to learn to get along with believers that may drink. Just as myself (who does not drink), or anyone who does drink, would not offend a brother or sister by drinking in front of them.

So in short....lets get over it. After all, we're not talking about drunkenness...which is not debatable. We're talking about something that is less clear in Scripture.

I agree.

(this part added for the 10 character limit)
 
npetreley said:
It is the topic. Rubbing alcochol contains ethyl alcohol, which is absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin. Ethyl alcohol is the same alcohol as found in wine. Why is it NOT sinful to get alcohol into your system via rubbing alcohol, yet it's a sin to get it into your system by drinking it? That's why it's relevant. That's also why someone is desperate to believe you can't absorbe ethyl alcohol through the skin. If it were only about drinking, and not about self-righteousness, then the absorbancy of alcohol through the skin wouldn't be an issue.

Rubbing alcohol does not contain ethyl. I have a bottle sitting here on my desk now. It clearly says halfway through the label:

Notice: This product does not contain ethyl or grain alcohol and is not sold as a substitute for preparation containing ethyl or grain alcohol.

The nurse I spoke with confirmed that the hospitals use the same rubbing alcohol. 70% Isopropyl by volume and purified water.
 

npetreley

New Member
His Blood Spoke My Name said:
Rubbing alcohol does not contain ethyl. I have a bottle sitting here on my desk now. It clearly says halfway through the label:

Notice: This product does not contain ethyl or grain alcohol and is not sold as a substitute for preparation containing ethyl or grain alcohol.

The nurse I spoke with confirmed that the hospitals use the same rubbing alcohol. 70% Isopropyl by volume and purified water.
I thought we were dropping this subject.

Not ALL rubbing alcohol contains ethyl alcohol. Some of it is isopropyl alcohol. Some rubbing alcohol DOES contain ethyl alcohol. In the latter case, it is a mixture of acetone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and ethyl alcohol. You happen to have a bottle of Isopropyl, which is the most common kind of rubbing alcohol today. But it's not the only kind.

BOTH types of alcohol are absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream. However, Isopropyl alcohol is actually more dangerous than ethyl alcohol (about twice as toxic), and is more likely to cause death when ingested even in small amounts. The tiny amount that you absorb through the skin will not intoxicate you, but even that little amount can destroy some of your intestinal flora, which (trust me) is a bad thing.

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: rubbing alcohol
Function: noun
: a cooling and soothing liquid for external application that contains approximately 70 percent denatured ethanol or isopropanol

Main Entry: eth·a·nol
Pronunciation: 'e-th&-"nol, -"nOl, Britain also 'E-
Function: noun
: a colorless volatile flammable liquid C2H5OH that is the intoxicating agent in liquors and is also used as a solvent and in fuel -- called also ethyl alcohol, grain alcohol

Main Entry: de·na·ture
Pronunciation: (")dE-'nA-ch&r
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): de·na·tured; de·na·tur·ing /-'nA-ch(&-)ri[ng]/
transitive verb
1 : DEHUMANIZE
2 : to deprive of natural qualities : change the nature of: as a : to make (alcohol) unfit for drinking (as by adding an obnoxious substance) without impairing usefulness for other purposes b : to modify the molecular structure of (as a protein or DFNA) especially by heat, acid, alkali, or ultraviolet radiation so as to destroy or diminish some of the original properties and especially the specific biological activity
intransitive verb : to become denatured
- de·na·tur·ant /(")dE-'nA-ch&r-&nt/ noun
- de·na·tur·ation /(")dE-"nA-ch&-'rA-sh&n/ noun

The reason for the other ingredients besides ethanol in rubbing alcohol (the reason it's called denatured) is to make sure people don't buy it to drink it. That's also why Isopropanol is such a popular rubbing alcohol -- it's undrinkable unless you want to die.
 
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