Is Drinking Wine Wrong??

[Alcott]

I would rather preach the truth of God's Word with boldness than the lies of the world.

Which of those 2 is Proverbs 31:6-7? and do you preach it?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Alcott,

I do not give alcohol to the heavy hearted. I point them to Christ. He can enlighten a heart much more than alcohol.

There is no need for alcohol. If one would rather give alcohol to someone than Christ, who gives joy and peace and life, one is leading that one astray.

 

[Alcott]

So you repudiate the Word of God and go by your own ideas here.

 

[DHK]

So you repudiate the Word of God and go by your own ideas here.

You have a propensity for showing a bad dismeanor on the BB. You out right called someone else a liar which I deleted, and it appears that you have insunated the same thing here. If you are not going to debate the issue without personal attacks then kindly stop posting.
As to your objection:

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Have you ever studied poetry? Proverbs is one of the poetical books and employs a good many literary devices. The one that it uses here is callled a "comparative negative." Perhaps I should leave it at that and let you find out for yourself what it means. Basically he is making a comparision using an illustration in a negative way. It is almost a sarcastic expression of saying things. It is a negative statement used to draw a comparison. In truth he is not advocating the drinking of wine. But you wouldn't know that if you don't understand figures of speech and the nuances of Hebrew poetry. So please refrain from calling people liars on the board and do a bit more study before you post without knowledge (a definition of ignorance).
DHK

 

[Alcott]

You out right called someone else a liar which I deleted

Ain't that smart on your part? Delete a brief quote, then tell it.

Have you ever studied poetry?

Yep, to some extent. I am a 7-time winner of the Adult Division of our annual county poetry society contest.

Proverbs is one of the poetical books and employs a good many literary devices.... It is almost a sarcastic expression of saying things. It is a negative statement used to draw a comparison.

Okay, when it is stated, "It is not for kings... to drink wine" it is a literary device, not necessarily meaning exactly what it says, since it is a poetic comparison with the referenced verses, or the alternative does mean what it says; or else it's half factual, half poetic license. Okay.

 

[annsni]

How is HBSMN adding to God's Word? It is not him telling people that Christ made and drank alcoholic beverage. It is not him that is saying that God condones the believer drinking alcohol.

No, I cannot say HBSMN is adding to God's Word at all.

No, it is not him stating the truth of God's Word that Christ made and drank alcoholic beverage - and that God condones it. He is stating, against what the Word says, that alcohol is evil and will send you straight to hell. THAT is adding to the Word. Getting drunk is sinful and we ARE to be cautious with it but to say that it's wrong is to add in human interpretation to the Word of God and THAT is wrong.

Ann

PS - Sorry I couldnt' answer sooner - I don't know if anyone else couldn't get on last night but I couldn't for some reason.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Alcohol is toxic. It is poison. We are to take care of our bodies, not fill them with any amount of poison.

No, Look not upon the fermented beverage. Solomon meant what he said there. Leave it alone. I guess you are saying Solomon was preaching against God's Word too.

You need to read the Bible by the Sprit and not the flesh.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The wine Christ made was the "best", the same kind of wine the Lord of Hosts will serve us someday in Isaiah 25:6...
Isa 25:6 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.

Well chosen reference; thanks!

Even in these words is a prophecy of Christ to be discerned! Then what could be said against the pure enjoyment of what God has created for man's pure enjoyment? Shame, I really mean it; what pity some deny.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Alcohol is toxic. It is poison. We are to take care of our bodies, not fill them with any amount of poison.

No, Look not upon the fermented beverage. Solomon meant what he said there. Leave it alone. I guess you are saying Solomon was preaching against God's Word too.

You need to read the Bible by the Sprit and not the flesh.

Alchohol used wrongly is toxic; but not if used they way God made it part of and parcel OF the fruit of the vine. It is as fruit of the vine as the grapes are.

Now wine is good for you! You even get a better deal with the life-insurers if you drink temperately. And it is good statistics that will tell you you stand a better chance against all sorts of circulatory problems and heart attack. Temperate drinkers live longer, happier and healthier than totalers.

Somewhere it says in the OT that if you lived too far from the temple you must take your tithes and by wine and get drunk. \so not even getting drunk (a bit, occasionally) is so much wrong with.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Alcohol is toxic. It is poison. We are to take care of our bodies, not fill them with any amount of poison.

No, Look not upon the fermented beverage. Solomon meant what he said there. Leave it alone. I guess you are saying Solomon was preaching against God's Word too.

You need to read the Bible by the Sprit and not the flesh.

Somehere it says that if you look at the king's table laden with food, you must put a knife to your throat. Does that mean food per se should not be eaten? - The same with the wine in your instance referred.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Be not all too holy, it also says!

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Somehere it says that if you look at the king's table laden with food, you must put a knife to your throat. Does that mean food per se should not be eaten? - The same with the wine in your instance referred.

Like misquoting scripture?

1When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
2And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.


It says 'if' thou be a man given to appetite. Big difference. Says you are not to sit at the kings table gluttonous. Nothing about if you look at the food you are to put a knife to your throat.



That is a far cry from 'look not at the wine when it is fermented.'

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Be not all too holy, it also says!

Where is that scripture? certainly not in the Bible.

 

[webdog]

Where is that scripture? certainly not in the Bible.

Neither is this...

"No, Look not upon the fermented beverage. Solomon meant what he said there. Leave it alone. I guess you are saying Solomon was preaching against God's Word too."

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Prov. 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright is speaking of fermented wine and not looking at it. Diggin did not misquote, he paraphrased. Solomon wax saying not to look at fermented wine.

 

[annsni]

Prov. 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright is speaking of fermented wine and not looking at it. Diggin did not misquote, he paraphrased. Solomon wax saying not to look at fermented wine.

But how do we know that EVERY verse that speaks of wine is talking of juice but this particular verse - using the same word for wine - is speaking of fermented beverage?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The Bible is not going to contradict itself. If it says don't drink wine because it can lead to drunkenness, it must be talking of fermented wine.

When it is saying to drink, it is speaking of non-fermented.

 

[annsni]

The Bible is not going to contradict itself. If it says don't drink wine because it can lead to drunkenness, it must be talking of fermented wine.

When it is saying to drink, it is speaking of non-fermented.

So the same word - translated the same way - means 2 different things depending on your ideology. Obviously, if God said not to get drunk, He also means don't drink at all. Is that it? So when He talks of not being a glutton, we need to be sure we don't eat either.

Ann

 

[Linda64]

But how do we know that EVERY verse that speaks of wine is talking of juice but this particular verse - using the same word for wine - is speaking of fermented beverage?

The context of the verse is the answer. Wine in the Bible is a generic term. It can mean "fermented" or "unfermented" depending on the context in which it is used.
How can the English reader determine whether the Old Testament is speaking of unfermented, good wine, or fermented, bad wine? Simply examine the context of the verse. Wherever the use of wine is prohibited or discouraged, the reference is to fermented wine. Where its use is encouraged, the reference is to unfermented grape juice.

 

[annsni]

The context of the verse is the answer. Wine in the Bible is a generic term. It can mean "fermented" or "unfermented" depending on the context in which it is used.
How can the English reader determine whether the Old Testament is speaking of unfermented, good wine, or fermented, bad wine? Simply examine the context of the verse. Wherever the use of wine is prohibited or discouraged, the reference is to fermented wine. Where its use is encouraged, the reference is to unfermented grape juice.

Yet I have not seen any evidence that the word 'wine' is a generic term - or that 'strong drink' is either. They certainly didn't have anything like Jolt in Bible times - strong drink is a fermented, intoxicating drink from all that I can see in outside, neutral sources. I can't agree that we can make the meaning of the word change to conveniently back up an argument. Scripture must interpret Scripture and I don't see your argument backed up by Scripture anywhere.